GDT: GDT 7: Coyotes @ Rangers

[cobra427]

Most change their minds like the wind and can't remember what they said.

Last year everyone was on Playfair for the way the defense and PK were performing, and for good reason. This year, hardly a peep about our PP and Brown. I don't blame the coaches for the way we are playing as this is a rebuild and I expected such a season. The only aspect of our team that I do not like right now is the play of some of our vets. They are suppose to be the leaders.

Last year Brown was the genius. Maybe Yandle was really the genius. I am glad Chip was out last night so he doesn't get blamed for this loss like the other losses. With Klink/Chip/Moss/Schlemko gone/out, need a whipping boy, Smith has been good, can't be him, so it must be Tip. He doesn't play/can't develop youth. Except for Domi/Duclair 17-19 minutes last night, Martinook playing, starting 3 rookies, maybe 4 now with Elliot/7 D men. Wait, Tip's system is the problem, except for we can't get out of our own zone, first pass/basic exits have zero to do with any system, simple execution, crisp pass, on the tape, forward in the right place, not happening. This is the one area where I think coaching can help our execution. This has been poor and is partly on the coaching, mostly on our lack of talent and need for better PMD's (Yandle again).

The big disappointments so far are Vermette/Bods. Bods slow start might be partly the coaches fault because they were asking him to man the point on the PP and maybe that is why he has started slowly, too much responsibility, thinking too much. Vermette has a cup hangover and has maybe been injured all along. They both need to get rolling obviously. Doan is old and slow now, has some points, is what he is, and we shouldn't expect more out of him.

Overall our PK is better, Smith has been good, and we have been in every game with a chance for points, can't ask for much more than that from this roster. We don't have enough talent to be a serious playoff contender but we won't finish last in the NHL either as many/almost all have predicted.

 

[Jakey53]

7 games in and already a call for Tippet's head. Sad.

The very best we could have hoped for with THIS ROSTER was to approach .500. Next year is the year we should be competitive.

Next year if we don't acquire a top tier RHD ownership should fire Maloney. Next year if we don't make the playoffs with a top RHD, Strome Perlini, Dvorak and Samuelson we should fire Tippet.

Next year, not this year. This year our team is just a place holder waiting for our young talent to develop.

It wouldn't matter who would be the coach this year the results would be the same. These results are typical for a rebuilding year, and next year should be better, but still a rebuilding year.

 

[cobra427]

7 games in and already a call for Tippet's head. Sad.

The very best we could have hoped for with THIS ROSTER was to approach .500. Next year is the year we should be competitive.

Next year if we don't acquire a top tier RHD ownership should fire Maloney. Next year if we don't make the playoffs with a top RHD, Strome Perlini, Dvorak and Samuelson we should fire Tippet.

Next year, not this year. This year our team is just a place holder waiting for our young talent to develop.

It is sad, calling for Tip's head, 3-3-1 with this roster. That is over achieving and nobody on this board would have bet that we would be at .500 or better at the 7 game mark after the preseason.

 

[Jakey53]

Last year Brown was the genius. Maybe Yandle was really the genius. I am glad Chip was out last night so he doesn't get blamed for this loss like the other losses. With Klink/Chip/Moss/Schlemko gone/out, need a whipping boy, Smith has been good, can't be him, so is must be Tip. He doesn't play/can't develop youth. Except for Domi/Duclair 17-19 minutes last night, Martinook playing, starting 3 rookies, maybe 4 now with Elliot/7 D men. Wait, Tip's system is the problem, except for we can't get out of our own zone, first pass/basic exits have zero to do with any system, simple execution, crisp pass, on the tape, forward in the right place, not happening. This is the one area where I think coaching can help our execution. This has been poor and is partly on the coaching, mostly on our lack of talent and need for better PMD's (Yandle again).

The big disappointments so far are Vermette/Bods. Bods slow start might be partly the coaches fault because they were asking him to man the point on the PP and maybe that is why he has started slowly, too much responsibility, thinking too much. Vermette has a cup hangover and has maybe been injured all along. They both need to get rolling obviously. Doan is old and slow now, has some points, is what he is, and we shouldn't expect more out of him.

Overall our PK is better, Smith has been good, and we have been in every game with a chance for points, can't ask for much more than that from this roster. We don't have enough talent to be a serious playoff contender but we won't finish last in the NHL either as many/almost all have predicted.

I agree. This will be Doan's last year and with players like Gordon, Scott, Chip etc. contracts expiring we will see the next wave of kids, and of course there will be trades. It's an exciting time to be a Coyote fan.

 

[hbk]

Honestly these are the types of games we all were asking for this past offseason. Competitive (for the most part), fun to watch (for the most part) and not curling up to die every time the opposing team has a two point lead.

After the hot start I was worried we would end up in our favorite spot of drafting 12th. We need another top pick. We need to make some of our prospect pool expendable because we haven't been drafting defensemen and will need to acquire some from trade. We have gotten so lucky with Domi and Perlini at 12. Someone posted the success rate of draft picks and if I remember correctly it wasn't very high past 10. I think another top 5-7 pick sets the franchise up for a very long time. Missing it means we better hope the majority of the prospects pan out.

It's always amazing how quickly a prospect can fall out of favor. Two seasons ago it was debated if Lessio would be a top 6 player. Last season he was looked at as a high energy 3rd/4th liner. Now, who knows if he even cracks the line up.

I'm in agreement. We need to show reason for hope this year but still finish with an early pick. We have a very bright future regardless but a top 5 pick ensures we will be a force for years.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It is sad, calling for Tip's head, 3-3-1 with this roster.

In fairness, we won three straight, and have now lost four straight.

At some point we're going to have to admit that maybe the roster might look better in the hands of other coaches. Every team gets complacent after a few years, and ours is no exception.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

So it's okay for Tippet to preside over six straight losing seasons? What. And GMDM the axe first? Top end RHD are the second most expensive piece after first line centers

Did the rosters underperform? No. They were untalented rosters.

 

[Jakey53]

Did the rosters underperform? No. They were untalented rosters.

That's what happens when you have years of no ownership. The NHL owning the team has set us back years, but at least we have a team.

 

[CC96]

It is sad, calling for Tip's head, 3-3-1 with this roster. That is over achieving and nobody on this board would have bet that we would be at .500 or better at the 7 game mark after the preseason.

Did the rosters underperform? No. They were untalented rosters.

Criticizing Tip certainly has nothing to do with the fact, that over the last 200+ games (and yes, some of those rosters were actually decent), Tip has a worse record than Wayne Gretzky did during his last 200+ games coaching the Coyotes, or the fact that despite being an (extremely boring) defensive minded hockey club, we've been bottom ten in terms of defense and penalty killing, for 4 consecutive seasons now.

 

[hbk]

Criticizing Tip certainly has nothing to do with the fact, that over the last 200+ games (and yes, some of those rosters were actually decent), Tip has a worse record than Wayne Gretzky did during his last 200+ games coaching the Coyotes, or the fact that despite being an (extremely boring) defensive minded hockey club, we've been bottom ten in terms of defense and penalty killing, for 4 consecutive seasons now.

Well in Tippetts defense. Our worst season (last year) management was trying to tank on purpose. That compared to Gretzky doing his best job.

I get the frustration with Tippett but we have the leading rookie scorer and top goal scoring rookie. This season should be judged by their development and not solely on wins and losses.

The outcry this offseason was Tippett couldn't coach young players. Couldn't. No chance. Not the guy.

7 games into the season it's a different story. The kids are pulling their weight. We are playing a more competitive game than I or anyone in hockey expected. We were called for dead last. We are not playing like it and some of the credit has to go to Tippett.

 

[diceone]

Well in Tippetts defense. Our worst season (last year) management was trying to tank on purpose. That compared to Gretzky doing his best job.

I get the frustration with Tippett but we have the leading rookie scorer and top goal scoring rookie. This season should be judged by their development and not solely on wins and losses.

The outcry this offseason was Tippett couldn't coach young players. Couldn't. No chance. Not the guy.

7 games into the season it's a different story. The kids are pulling their weight. We are playing a more competitive game than I or anyone in hockey expected. We were called for dead last. We are not playing like it and some of the credit has to go to Tippett.

^this.

I'm pleased with Tip. The only thing I'm thinking is that the they shouldn't have had Boedker on the point as long as they did, and I'm not sure if that was Tip's call.

I also wish that the vets would show up a little bit more earlier in the games,

 

[Jakey53]

Well in Tippetts defense. Our worst season (last year) management was trying to tank on purpose. That compared to Gretzky doing his best job.

I get the frustration with Tippett but we have the leading rookie scorer and top goal scoring rookie. This season should be judged by their development and not solely on wins and losses.

The outcry this offseason was Tippett couldn't coach young players. Couldn't. No chance. Not the guy.

7 games into the season it's a different story. The kids are pulling their weight. We are playing a more competitive game than I or anyone in hockey expected. We were called for dead last. We are not playing like it and some of the credit has to go to Tippett.

You hit the nail on the head. We all get frustrated with some of DT's moves, but we would with any coach, and let's not forget, we aren't around these players 24/7 and I would take any coach's judgment calls over any hf poster.

 

[CC96]

I get the frustration with Tippett but we have the leading rookie scorer and top goal scoring rookie. This season should be judged by their development and not solely on wins and losses.

The outcry this offseason was Tippett couldn't coach young players. Couldn't. No chance. Not the guy.

7 games into the season it's a different story. The kids are pulling their weight. We are playing a more competitive game than I or anyone in hockey expected. We were called for dead last. We are not playing like it and some of the credit has to go to Tippett.

I mean, It's not Tippett's job to just simply not irreparably damage the kids, and that's it.

He needs to get some semblance of effort out of the vets (his guys). We're going on 4 straight years now, of lackluster, uninterested play from our veterans. I'd really hate to see some of their lazy habits, begin to creep into the kids' game.

We looked decent for like 3 games, and have looked absolutely horrible since. Literally almost every veteran player looks completely disinterested and unengaged, while on the ice. Considering that we've complained about this in 2012-2013, 2013-2014, 2014-2015, and now 2015-2016, it's reflects horribly on Tippett's ability to get his players motivated.

 

[Mosby]

Re: Lessio. I'm not sure he was ever that good. He looked good against lesser lights (Szwarz, Hodgman, etc.) but he obviously gets bumped down the depth chart when he's fighting for a job vs. Domi, Duclair, Perlini, Strome, etc.

 

[hbk]

I mean, It's not Tippett's job to just simply not irreparably damage the kids, and that's it.

He needs to get some semblance of effort out of the vets (his guys). We're going on 4 straight years now, of lackluster, uninterested play from our veterans. I'd really hate to see some of their lazy habits, begin to creep into the kids' game.

We looked decent for like 3 games, and have looked absolutely horrible since. Literally almost every veteran player looks completely disinterested and unengaged, while on the ice. Considering that we've complained about this in 2012-2013, 2013-2014, 2014-2015, and now 2015-2016, it's reflects horribly on Tippett's ability to get his players motivated.

I'd rather change the players than the coach.

 

[KG]

I'd rather change the players than the coach.

Why? How is tippet that good to warrant this hero's worship?

 

[hbk]

Why? How is tippet that good to warrant this hero's worship?

I believe that Tippett is a great bench coach and he's surprised me thus far with how he's used Domi and Duclair. The main reason this board has had against Tippett is he couldn't develop youth. Yet here we are today with the top scoring rookie and the top goal scoring rookie. that argument doesn't hold water so far this season.

Argument has turned to record yet doesn't acknowledge the lack of talent he's had to work with. Talent is GM's role. Tippett for years got blood from a stone as this team severely overachieved for years. We had no business beating Chicago in 2012 yet we did. Tippett is responsible for this franchise breaking a 25 year old playoff curse. For that I'm grateful because I was there for all of those years.

Has he been able to overachieve in recent years. The answer is no. In fact last year was a downright miserable disaster. One made worse by managements decision to tank which left Tippett embarrassed by season's end.

This season we are expected to finish dead last. Dead last. Not one publication has us finishing higher. again we are buying time until we actually are able to insert our prospects into the lineup. A Losing season with future promise is the fanbase expectation. We want to see hope for the future. Against that standard, Tippett is delivering as expected.

That's why I want to see veterans who don't fit like Boedker moved out. Doan will retire at season's end. Vermette will be phased out in time. That's the direction I want to see.

 

[moosemeister]

I believe that Tippett is a great bench coach and he's surprised me thus far with how he's used Domi and Duclair. The main reason this board has had against Tippett is he couldn't develop youth. Yet here we are today with the top scoring rookie and the top goal scoring rookie. that argument doesn't hold water so far this season.

Argument has turned to record yet doesn't acknowledge the lack of talent he's had to work with. Talent is GM's role. Tippett for years got blood from a stone as this team severely overachieved for years. We had no business beating Chicago in 2012 yet we did. Tippett is responsible for this franchise breaking a 25 year old playoff curse. For that I'm grateful because I was there for all of those years.

Has he been able to overachieve in recent years. The answer is no. In fact last year was a downright miserable disaster. One made worse by managements decision to tank which left Tippett embarrassed by season's end.

This season we are expected to finish dead last. Dead last. Not one publication has us finishing higher. again we are buying time until we actually are able to insert our prospects into the lineup. A Losing season with future promise is the fanbase expectation. We want to see hope for the future. Against that standard, Tippett is delivering as expected.

That's why I want to see veterans who don't fit like Boedker moved out. Doan will retire at season's end. Vermette will be phased out in time. That's the direction I want to see.

Pretty much sums up how I see this year going. Boedker will get traded, Doan will be traded at the deadline, come back for a day and retire. Vermette will slide down to the third line permanently when Strome makes it.

Tips handling of the young kids is a pleasant surprise. I can see their game away from the puck isn't the greatest buts he's not taking ice time away and giving them to undeserving vets like we are used to seeing. He's giving sufficient ice time to those who are earning it. He scratched Ghetto Datsyuk (another thing we felt like he would never do, but did) in favor of a 7th defenseman that didn't work. He will suit up next game and I don't mind, because playing Elliot didn't work out very well.

I think Lindbackup should get the next game. Hold Smith accountable for that game last night. He blew it for us.

If Lindbackup can get a few more games in after Smith has a stinker, then I think Tip is far surpassing my expectations of him this seasons.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Small sample size. Even if Tippett has evolved his coaching, it's still going to have to take a cup somewhere down the line in order to make things all forgiven for everyone.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think the veterans are also doing the "gripping the stick too tight" thing and trying (wanting) to make something happen. The way that the veterans can make something happen is to use their experience in breaking the neutral zone trap and maintaining offensive possession.

We'll come around - every team has their struggles at certain points, but it is clear that the rookies are outpacing the vets right now, which was not something that I would have expected.

 

[kihekah19*]

Sounds like a simple fix. We've just hit a bit of a rough patch. We've only been NOT executing for two seasons. How long is a reasonable expectation to expect a head coach to get his team to execute before you try something else, by the way?

Are we to assume (based on the idiotic statement above) that you believe that..... oh... say the Stars, or another team with talented players would suddenly not be able to execute simple passes, should Tippet coach them?

 

[_Del_]

You may assume that we've seen the players execute before and that aren't doing it now. Every year we make minor "upgrades" to the roster, but the result is a decline in the standings. How does the coaching and management combo get an unlimited pass? Pretty heavy turnover since three years ago. Same or worse in on-ice performance.
This year's team has been better than I expected, but that doesn't mean we should all just forget that we're mired in failure with the same dogged devotion to the excuses (execution, lots of try) as to Tippett and Maloney's "good guys".
Everything else has changed. It's time for a new look higer up than the players.

 

[Mosby]

Read this article the other day and laughed to myself seeing Vigneault referencing "execution". Maybe Tipp isn't crazy after all

http://nypost.com/2015/10/21/how-duclairs-garden-return-puts-more-heat-on-rangers-yandle/

"I believe there is more to give than what [Yandle] has shown us,” Vigneault said. “He’s got all the attributes, he’s just got to learn to relax, execute a little bit better."

 

[kihekah19*]

It is all about execution.

Think back to the first three games, not the entire game, but when things were going well. I remember being shocked at how this team was suddenly able to execute, as opposed to preseason when they looked like they have the last 3-4 games.

Would one of the folks here that want to blame this current situation on DT please explain just what exactly he has changed (personnel or systems wise etc.), that has somehow made this team turn into what we witnessed in the preseason? And don't waste anyone here's time with some crap about playing Chip, he's one guy and ain't making or breaking this team.


Funny that I sit here and defend DT, when I really don't care much one way or the other, generally speaking. I just can't stand the lynch mob mentality that has no basis...... Now, if you want to say a change for change sake is needed? I can respect that. That or give me some specific DT blunders and prove me wrong.

 

[Jakey53]

I'd rather change the players than the coach.

I believe that Tippett is a great bench coach and he's surprised me thus far with how he's used Domi and Duclair. The main reason this board has had against Tippett is he couldn't develop youth. Yet here we are today with the top scoring rookie and the top goal scoring rookie. that argument doesn't hold water so far this season.

Argument has turned to record yet doesn't acknowledge the lack of talent he's had to work with. Talent is GM's role. Tippett for years got blood from a stone as this team severely overachieved for years. We had no business beating Chicago in 2012 yet we did. Tippett is responsible for this franchise breaking a 25 year old playoff curse. For that I'm grateful because I was there for all of those years.

Has he been able to overachieve in recent years. The answer is no. In fact last year was a downright miserable disaster. One made worse by managements decision to tank which left Tippett embarrassed by season's end.

This season we are expected to finish dead last. Dead last. Not one publication has us finishing higher. again we are buying time until we actually are able to insert our prospects into the lineup. A Losing season with future promise is the fanbase expectation. We want to see hope for the future. Against that standard, Tippett is delivering as expected.

That's why I want to see veterans who don't fit like Boedker moved out. Doan will retire at season's end. Vermette will be phased out in time. That's the direction I want to see.

Good post.