GDT: GDT #49 New York Islanders vs Florida Panthers | January 27th | 7:30 PM | F/4-3 OTL

[periferal]

Perif, this is one you can easily research. Here's the Forbes valuations from Dec 2022:

Note that last year's Cup finalist is 31st and that Carolina is in the bottom 5. There is no way that winning is correlated to value in the NHL. It's major market (likely due to the local TV revenue) and Canadian teams do have an extra layer of broadcast revenues. We're more valuable than Tampa Bay and Vegas too.

Forbes list of the most valuable NHL clubs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No one said that winning is the determining value of a franchise, but there's zero question winning/losing affects overall value. Don't believe me...? Well this is one you could easily research.

• The value of the Blues in 2018 was 465 million. They won the Cup in 2019 and 2 years later they were worth 640 million.
• The value of the Lightning in 2019 was 470 million. 4 years and 2 Cups later they're worth 1.3 billion.
• The value of the Avalanche in 2021 was 630 million. They won the Cup in 2022 and now they're worth 1.2 billion.

Again no question that some teams are in markets/have alternate streams of revenue that will keep them very valuable profitable no matter how many people buy tickets. Also no question that the #1 thing driving all franchise values the last few years has been the expansion fees of Vegas/Seattle, but I'm just saying that winning/losing affects the annual income of a team and that affects overall value one way or another.

 

[Throttle]

The number one thing is the US and Canadian television/streaming deal.

 

[leeroggy]

No one said that winning is the determining value of a franchise, but there's zero question winning/losing affects overall value. Don't believe me...? Well this is one you could easily research.

• The value of the Blues in 2018 was 465 million. They won the Cup in 2019 and 2 years later they were worth 640 million.
• The value of the Lightning in 2019 was 470 million. 4 years and 2 Cups later they're worth 1.3 billion.
• The value of the Avalanche in 2021 was 630 million. They won the Cup in 2022 and now they're worth 1.2 billion.

Again no question that some teams are in markets/have alternate streams of revenue that will keep them very valuable profitable no matter how many people buy tickets. Also no question that the #1 thing driving all franchise values the last few years has been the expansion fees of Vegas/Seattle, but I'm just saying that winning/losing affects the annual income of a team and that affects overall value one way or another.

And we moved up from 1.05 billion to 1.55 billion in ONE YEAR after last year's first round loss, and are now three slots above Tampa instead of 2. Tampa increased only $250 billion.

Vegas WON the Cup and are still $400 million behind us. In 2022 they were worth $965 million and in 14th place . . . in your SAME RATING, a year later, they are 18th and $1,125 billion.

How do you justify that?

You didn't make the case, just highlighted how ALL the franchises are worth a lot more.

 

[periferal]

And we moved up from 1.05 billion to 1.55 billion in ONE YEAR after last year's first round loss, and are now three slots above Tampa instead of 2. Tampa increased only $250 billion.

Vegas WON the Cup and are still $400 million behind us. In 2022 they were worth $965 million and in 14th place . . . in your SAME RATING, a year later, they are 18th and $1,125 billion.

How do you justify that?

You didn't make the case, just highlighted how ALL the franchises are worth a lot more.

Huh? You're debating something completely different. Columbus could win the next 10 Cups and they'll never be worth what the Leafs are worth.

Every single franchise has to be judged on its on merit because every single factor that determines overall value (market, TV contracts, merchandise, arena, parking, ancillary income, etc) is unique across the board to each one.

Comparing 2 franchises to each other doesn't matter. New York is the #1 overall US market and Vegas is 40th. That's why it's not an apples to apples comparison (literally). Also the Isles new arena and all the corporate revenue that comes with that (especially compared with the Coliseum) was always going to boost the Isles franchise value big time over the past few years - Even if they were a bottom 5 team during that time.

Again I'm just making the point that whether you're the rangers or the Blue Jackets - Winning is going to help each team's overall bottom line....Even if it is much smaller compared to a number of other factors.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Lou is the one who constructed all of this, so don't you hope that Scott Malkin sees it too...?

I mean with the lack of cap space and tradable assets what can any GM do this offseason to make any sort of meaningful change anyway?

Yep, my "good lord, hope Lou sees it too" is more about hoping he's ultimately going to decide against moving out more 1sts, 2nds, and prospects to invest in this season.

Even if Malkin is ready to see a change in the GM position, don't think it's coming until the offseason.

And there's a big, heavy trade deadline before that.

 

[doublechili]

New York is the #1 overall US market and Vegas is 40th. That's why it's not an apples to apples comparison (literally).

If we're discussing literal comparison of apples to apples, it should probably be in the OT thread.

 

[periferal]

Yep, my "good lord, hope Lou sees it too" is more about hoping he's ultimately going to decide against moving out more 1sts, 2nds, and prospects to invest in this season.

Even if Malkin is ready to see a change in the GM position, don't think it's coming until the offseason.

And there's a big, heavy trade deadline before that.

Agree, but ultimately Lou is never going to be "fired" per se. He'll be allowed to "retire" and you can be sure that Malkin will gracefully send him off into the sunset even if behind the scenes it was totally a firing.

With that said Malkin may have already decided to get rid of Lou this summer and do so in a graceful way, but...As a result told Lou that he cannot trade any more futures.

Whatever it takes, Malkin needs to step in ASAP and make sure that Lou does't push our (ultimately necessary) retool/rebuild out even further into the future - Perhaps until Lou is not even alive anymore.

 

[Throttle]

Again, what’s the obsession that Lou must be ‘fired’ anyway? He’ll pass on his duties in a transition to someone else.

PS - there’s no rebuild on the horizon.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Agree, but ultimately Lou is never going to be "fired" per se. He'll be allowed to "retire" and you can be sure that Malkin will gracefully send him off into the sunset even if behind the scenes it was totally a firing.

With that said Malkin may have already decided to get rid of Lou this summer and do so in a graceful way, but...As a result told Lou that he cannot trade any more futures.

Whatever it takes, Malkin needs to step in ASAP and make sure that Lou does't push our (ultimately necessary) retool/rebuild out even further into the future - Perhaps until Lou is not even alive anymore.

If that would be the case, we sure gotta hope there's an internal trade embargo in place.

As much as I've already kissed this summer's 1st goodbye in my mind's eye, I've said in the past that I've simply never seen a team that wasn't in the midst of winning Cups move 3-4 firsts in a row. I just haven't seen it.

Now, no matter what the phase the team was in, I truly don't think I've EVER seen a team move 5 firsts in a row. That's where we'd be at if the '24 first gets moved as well.

 

[BelovedIsles]

5v5 I thought they were fine. Florida is one of the best teams in the league. Analytics back up the 5v5 play. The PK is beating them every night. They got smoked on the Pk tonight. Bunch of grade A chances. Lots of opportunities in general.

I saw a team that was largely outplayed.

"Woody" hasn't been very good for a while now, regulation or OT. We might have to start pulling some of the old Nelson jokes out of the archives if he doesn't wake up after the break.

I initially put primary blame on Reilly for the OT goal, but after watching the replay a few times it seems like Palmieri (I think) was late getting over the boards on the change and slow to accelerate to catch up to OEL. Reilly may have reasonably thought Palmieri would cover OEL and by the time he realized that wasn't happening he was in no man's land.

As bad as Engvall was in the previous game, and as frustrating as he can be with his soft play, I saw glimpses of a few of the positive things in his game (passing, neutral zone puck-carrying) last night. That contract isn't getting traded, so he and Nelson need to get back to where they were last season.

I'm thinking that the biggest problem with Aho is not as much his lack of size as it is his decision-making, specifically the speed of his mental processing on the ice. His momentary hesitation leads to errors constantly.

I wonder if Roy makes some line changes after break?

Nelson has been quiet for weeks. I wonder if we are seeing the first signs of age.

 

[Lek]

Nelson has been quiet for weeks. I wonder if we are seeing the first signs of age.

sure are....he is getting to old to carry two wingers...