GDT: GDT #25 New York Islanders vs Columbus Blue Jackets | December 7th | 7:30 PM | F/W 7-3

[CupHolders]

Anybody know what's going on with Pulock? I didn't notice him on the ice in the latter part of the game.

Nice to see some goals, and some Barzal/Horvat chemistry.

Not to be picky after a win. But, there was one point where we were up 5-3 and were keeping the puck deep in their zone, then Clutterbuck makes a risky pass back to the point and it leaves the zone and they end up having sustained pressure against us and almost scored. That's the kind of moment that can lose you a lead and a game. Fortunately they didn't score and we won, but they've got to clean that kind of thing up. Situational awareness....

I don’t recall that play specifically. But that seems to be the KIND of play that is the difference between Trotz and Lambert. Just from this game, the Gauthier icing was another example.

Ultimately, hockey is a game based on mistakes (more than many others sports IMO) but how you manage the mistakes is what separates the better teams.

Maybe it’s a product of an older team... But seems silly to not suggest it’s partly due to coaching. Same players, but stoopid foot-shooting decisions.

 

[Lek]

Regarding Barzal. One credit to Lambert is that he took that silly collar off Barzal that Trotz clearly placed on him the previous 4 years. That was always my biggest gripe about Trotz. I remember telling myself back then that Trotz was going to destroy Barzal’s game and mentioned it a few times early on. He had this not so secret weapon on his team and he completely stymied it because it was too outside his system. There were always those rumors but watching Barzal now more true to form I have to believe there was some truth behind those rumors. Barzal’s game is so dominant that’s he’s like a one man army when he utilizes his teammates to win games. The guys a goal feeding machine which often made me think what if Trotz told the team to play behind his structure but had the team wait for Barzal to set them up. What if he just let Barzal be Barzal within his system. Like he was a separate weapon outside Trotz hockey. Instead we got to observe a lot of stupidity. You don’t bottle up a kid this talented. It’s quite clear the difference we see now under his play with Lambert and that under Trotz but we can’t turn back the clock. That might be what we are seeing now and if they just shore up the defense they might be onto something here.

Remember this conversation?

But, Trotz taught Barzal structure....ok, maybe not a lot but enough so that it is enhancing his game now that he is let "loose". He has really looked good overall this year..

As for us, kinda flipped. We looked really bad for two periods and out of nowhere, brought it in the last 15 of the third. It was fun, but still far from a complete game. D and coverage are still beyond bad. A better team might have had us out of it before the third. We'll see over the next three.

 

[CupHolders]

I’ve often pushed back on some of the silly takes about Barzal from certain fans here.

But, I don’t see Barzal as having been “unleashed” by Lambert, since I don’t think Trotz “shackled” him.

1) Last season (around January), Barzal noticeably stopped doing less around the zone circles. While moving the puck to teammates quicker. He has continued to improve on this.

2) This season Barzal has made a mental shift to shoot more, while also working on his shot.

3) The biggest improvement of late… his proactive puck retrieval. He’s leading the NHL takeaways, because he’s actively trying to get it back.

All of these things are the player, and not due to structural changes. Trotz system wouldn’t have stopped him from doing the above.

The only benefit that I could see from Lambert is moving Barzal from center to wing. That has lessened his center responsibilities.

The other (more organizational, than Lambert) is that Bo Horvat is the most capable addition at forward since Tavares.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

That Barzal wrap around feed to Bo got an audible WOOOOO from me. So nice

What a welcome change it was to step on another teams throat and kill the game off instead of playing not to lose

 

[mm11]

Think #13 if played some full seasons instead of the shortened covid ones may have skewed some 70 plus campaigns playing in a tight D structure while being a huge cog in a bunch of playoff series wins multiple seasons in a row. Not bad for a kid at what 23 at the time whom already captioned NHL hardware. Taking all this into consideration I could care less about stats. Much rather wins and kicking the rags collective asses in the spring when it all counts. Lgi.

 

[NittanyIsle]

Missing since Leddy, nice little Leddy Lite hopefully

Agree with this

 

[saintunspecified]

I liked the scoreboard tonight. Didn't like that we were outworked by CBJ for much of the game.

Gotta give credit where credit is due, even though we out-talented the Blue Jackets they did not stop moving their legs until the game was out of reach.

They had a whole bunch of AHL players in the lineup, but not Fantilli. That dude has size, skating, and skill.

I don't believe any of the Barzal 'set free' nonsense. He's been scoring more for two reasons: he's getting more comfortable on the wing, and because NYI's PP has improved. The improvement on the PP has come as a result of Dobson's improvement, Horvat over whoever NYI had at the bumper in the past, and Palmieri down low over Lee (2023 Lee, anyway). But Barzal's zone entries are key, as well.

At even strength of course he 'looks' more free - he can be out in front of the play instead of trailing it. He could not have created NYI's 7th goal as a center, and his value as a winger was demonstrated on that play. He looked like Fiala taking a pass in stride, and using his wheels to break down the defense. Even if his pass was blocked back behind the goal line (Spencer Martin's job, y'all), or got intercepted in the slot, that's a good play. Even In the worst possible outcome - a turnover - his momentum helps carry him into position to back check.

Barzal is starting to learn the fine balance between pushing up ice (good), and flying the zone early (bad). I expect he'll make some more mistakes there. But the mistake he's making less is collapsing down too low in the defensive zone along the wall or breaking up ice too late. Those are mistakes because while collapsing or waiting may seem 'responsible', it makes him less of a threat in transition (which allows the opposition to be more aggressive). He's also improving wrt position in the neutral zone on the back check. One could say that's he's been more dedicated defensively, but I tend to think a lot of that is just feeding a silly narrative. Rather, he's more effective because he's getting more experience playing the wing.

 

[Big L]

Whatever you want to call ‘set free’ or not, semantics. But Barry on multiple occasions said he was trying to get barzal to be more defensively responsible and play ‘the right way’. Whatever you want to call it and debate wether or not that hindered or helped his play then and now could be debated id suppose.

 

[PK Cronin]

I’ve often pushed back on some of the silly takes about Barzal from certain fans here.

But, I don’t see Barzal as having been “unleashed” by Lambert, since I don’t think Trotz “shackled” him.

1) Last season (around January), Barzal noticeably stopped doing less around the zone circles. While moving the puck to teammates quicker. He has continued to improve on this.

2) This season Barzal has made a mental shift to shoot more, while also working on his shot.

3) The biggest improvement of late… his proactive puck retrieval. He’s leading the NHL takeaways, because he’s actively trying to get it back.

All of these things are the player, and not due to structural changes. Trotz system wouldn’t have stopped him from doing the above.

The only benefit that I could see from Lambert is moving Barzal from center to wing. That has lessened his center responsibilities.

The other (more organizational, than Lambert) is that Bo Horvat is the most capable addition at forward since Tavares.

You're 100% correct.

The idea that this is the same Barzal we saw before Trotz was here is a ridiculous take. In fact, he's doing all of the things that Barzal wouldn't do. He is shooting more, he's hounding pucks more, he's moving the puck off his stick quicker than he ever has before, he's not cheating out of the offensive zone, he's not doing three laps around the perimeter of the offensive zone. He's actually doing many of the things many of us have been asking him to do. I've specifically called out the fact that he needs to move the puck to other players quicker because it will create more room for himself. He's done that quite a bit more this year with Horvat. Even on the power play, he's not just standing still with the puck and twirling around this year so far, he's making a concerted effort to get the puck off his stick quicker and he's been more willing to shoot it.

Plus, as you noted as well, he's not even playing the same position anymore.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Maybe Barzal is playing well because he has a talented line mate in Horvat.

 

[Rehabguy]

I’ve often pushed back on some of the silly takes about Barzal from certain fans here.

But, I don’t see Barzal as having been “unleashed” by Lambert, since I don’t think Trotz “shackled” him.

1) Last season (around January), Barzal noticeably stopped doing less around the zone circles. While moving the puck to teammates quicker. He has continued to improve on this.

2) This season Barzal has made a mental shift to shoot more, while also working on his shot.

3) The biggest improvement of late… his proactive puck retrieval. He’s leading the NHL takeaways, because he’s actively trying to get it back.

All of these things are the player, and not due to structural changes. Trotz system wouldn’t have stopped him from doing the above.

The only benefit that I could see from Lambert is moving Barzal from center to wing. That has lessened his center responsibilities.

The other (more organizational, than Lambert) is that Bo Horvat is the most capable addition at forward since Tavares.

The drop in his output under Trotz is undeniable though you bring up some good points here. Just watching how is playing more now like he did his Calder year is evidence enough for me but yes I do like the fact that he is shooting more and I love the fact that he worked on his one timers all throughout the summer.

 

[PK Cronin]

The drop in his output under Trotz is undeniable though you bring up some good points here. Just watching how is playing more now like he did his Calder year is evidence enough for me but yes I do like the fact that he is shooting more and I love the fact that he worked on his one timers all throughout the summer.

Except he isn't playing like that at all, as shown by the post you're directly quoting. Just because he's putting up points doesn't mean he's playing the same way as that year and it also doesn't mean he's been "unleashed."

 

[Rehabguy]

You're 100% correct.

The idea that this is the same Barzal we saw before Trotz was here is a ridiculous take. In fact, he's doing all of the things that Barzal wouldn't do. He is shooting more, he's hounding pucks more, he's moving the puck off his stick quicker than he ever has before, he's not cheating out of the offensive zone, he's not doing three laps around the perimeter of the offensive zone. He's actually doing many of the things many of us have been asking him to do. I've specifically called out the fact that he needs to move the puck to other players quicker because it will create more room for himself. He's done that quite a bit more this year with Horvat. Even on the power play, he's not just standing still with the puck and twirling around this year so far, he's making a concerted effort to get the puck off his stick quicker and he's been more willing to shoot it.

Plus, as you noted as well, he's not even playing the same position anymore.

If this was all true we should have seen this version of Barzal the past 4 years instead what we saw a shell of his former self. This is not coincidence the changes we are seeing here and these changes in his individual approach to the game are undeniable. For whatever reason it didn't appear that he was seeing eye to eye under Trotz. He using skating much more now than he did under Trotz. But we're not going to agree here so...

 

[PK Cronin]

If this was all true we should have seen this version of Barzal the past 4 years instead what we saw a shell of his former self. This is not coincidence the changes we are seeing here and these changes in his individual approach to the game are undeniable. For whatever reason it didn't appear that he was seeing eye to eye under Trotz. He using skating much more now than he did under Trotz. But we're not going to agree here so...

Right, because you invent a narrative and stick to it even without showing any evidence of it and will deny any evidence you get shown. It's very tiring and having you run around linking old conversations to prove how right you were/are when you're incapable of showing any evidence is getting old quickly.

He's skating much more now than he did under Trotz? How are you quantifying that? Do you have statistical evidence beyond points? Do you have any clips? You've posted highlight videos of him circling the perimeter in the offensive zone for multiple minutes during his Calder year, do you have any highlights of him doing that this year? Are you just going to conveniently ignore the fact he's not playing center anymore so there are different (less) responsibilities and he's also playing with a very good center in Horvat?

You speak in vague terms intentionally.

 

[MJF]

Maybe Barzal is playing well because he has a talented line mate in Horvat.

That's a simplistic way of looking at it.

 

[mm11]

Think he was fine under trotz and a force in most post season games. Fact of the matter was barzal truly never had a super talented running mate to get done cheap points as the pp always sucked.

 

[Rehabguy]

Right, because you invent a narrative and stick to it even without showing any evidence of it and will deny any evidence you get shown. It's very tiring and having you run around linking old conversations to prove how right you were/are when you're incapable of showing any evidence is getting old quickly.

He's skating much more now than he did under Trotz? How are you quantifying that? Do you have statistical evidence beyond points? Do you have any clips? You've posted highlight videos of him circling the perimeter in the offensive zone for multiple minutes during his Calder year, do you have any highlights of him doing that this year? Are you just going to conveniently ignore the fact he's not playing center anymore so there are different (less) responsibilities and he's also playing with a very good center in Horvat?

You speak in vague terms intentionally.

The only narrative I remember was the narrative you invented on why Trotz was fired by Lou. Where was the evidence for that? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here don't you think?

Regarding Barzal there is a change in his game and if it continues I'm sorry a lot of that has to do with the coaching change and letting Barzal play his game. But like I said I knew you would never agree with me.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The only narrative I remember was the narrative you invented on why Trotz was fired by Lou. Where was the evidence for that? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here don't you think?

Regarding Barzal there is a change in his game and if it continues I'm sorry a lot of that has to do with the coaching change.

Pretty much everywhere.

That's a simplistic way of looking at it.

I'm a simple man.

 

[PK Cronin]

The only narrative I remember was the narrative you invented on why Trotz was fired by Lou. Where was the evidence for that? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here don't you think?

See, you're avoiding another question as per usual and refuse to answer it with any substance.

And no, it's not the pot calling the kettle black, there was plenty of evidence to support my theory. I also didn't make the claim that it was a fact, it's my belief based on the evidence that exists (all of which I've laid out previously and you're free to go find if you'd like) and people are free to disagree with that because there is also evidence that points to other things. I don't know which one is the truth and I've been very clear about that when presenting my thoughts on the matter. Do you see how that's different than what you're doing?

Regarding Barzal there is a change in his game and if it continues I'm sorry a lot of that has to do with the coaching change.

Ah, the standard "I know what I'm seeing, sorry you're too dumb to see it" post that provides nothing more than a regurgitation of what you've already said and is being questioned. You're so right.

You're so right! Why didn't I see it before?! The coaching change at the start of last season has only now impacted Barzal 365+ days later, because, you know, it has to do with the coaching change! Brilliant analysis.

 

[Rehabguy]

Ah, the standard "I know what I'm seeing, sorry you're too dumb to see it" post that provides nothing more than a regurgitation of what you've already said and is being questioned. You're so right.

Look at the video I posted above again. Do not tell me he has not been doing what we see in THAT video- driving to the net, utilizing his teammates better, shooting the puck from pretty much the same areas as he has been shooting from for the past several weeks. The video I posted is showing exactly the same things he is doing right now. The game we see now was in his toolbox the moment he took to the NHL ice. Nothing has changed in his game, all he is doing now is doing what he was doing his Calder year. If you can't see that you're just totally blind man and as usual your just looking to pick an argument. No analysis needed.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Except he isn't playing like that at all, as shown by the post you're directly quoting. Just because he's putting up points doesn't mean he's playing the same way as that year and it also doesn't mean he's been "unleashed."

Yeah, I see very little in terms of comparison.

 

[PJGooch]

I’ve often pushed back on some of the silly takes about Barzal from certain fans here.

But, I don’t see Barzal as having been “unleashed” by Lambert, since I don’t think Trotz “shackled” him.

1) Last season (around January), Barzal noticeably stopped doing less around the zone circles. While moving the puck to teammates quicker. He has continued to improve on this.

2) This season Barzal has made a mental shift to shoot more, while also working on his shot.

3) The biggest improvement of late… his proactive puck retrieval. He’s leading the NHL takeaways, because he’s actively trying to get it back.

All of these things are the player, and not due to structural changes. Trotz system wouldn’t have stopped him from doing the above.

The only benefit that I could see from Lambert is moving Barzal from center to wing. That has lessened his center responsibilities.

The other (more organizational, than Lambert) is that Bo Horvat is the most capable addition at forward since Tavares.

Right on. He's shooting more, passing more quickly, and passing more effectively -- for instance, using his puck-carrying skills to have the defenders back off, then dishing to Dobson with momentum for a dangerous shot or pass from the slot. All things 99% of the people here have been clamoring for. (Which some interpret as "hating.")

Or maybe it could just be that the Hall of Fame former coach was actively telling him not to score.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Has anyone considered the Mike Reilly effect?

 

[Rehabguy]

I'm just glad all the naysayers are finally giving the kid his due. So tired of defending this kid night after night. In typical HF Islander fan fashion they shit on the player for years on end and then when he is allowed to play his game they change their tune.

 

[seafoam]

Has anyone considered the Mike Reilly effect?

He’s plays with so much more swagger than Aho, he’s definitely been an x-factor.