GDT: GDT #24 New York Islanders vs San Jose Sharks | December 5th | 7:30 PM | F/5-4 OTL

The Real JT

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Jul 2, 2018
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I would rather have the 2nd round pick and Bailey than Fashing.

He should have tried to deal Cizikas or JGP as they didn’t have complete negative value and are redundant. That would have been the better way to clear cap.

Lou is not good at this, just look at Toews
I agree with your second paragraph. Not the first. Bailey had to go.

You run the risk of negative value territory when you hold onto players that are on the downside of their careers even though they might still be somewhat productive.

We’re past that point with JGP and it was a missed opportunity to flip him earlier. While I’m not ready to throw the towel in yet, I’d trade Cizikas in a heartbeat at the TDL for the same reason if we are out of the playoff picture.
 

HyeDray

Registered User
Jul 13, 2006
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I was unfortunately at the game. I figured — hell — they should win this one, so why not.

That did not go well.

Unacceptable is all well and good — but unless and until there is a consequence here, this is going to happen again, and again, and again.

First of all — we have to be real. The players we have are just not that good.

Sorokin is the only true elite player they have, and the players in front of him are not getting it done.

There are some very strong players in the mix but no one else is at the elite level. Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, Dobson are high end players and I think they are great to have on the team — but they are not elite. Beyond that, the balance of the roster is easily replaceable. Pullock is solid. Pelech is solid. But neither is top-pair caliber in my view. Ideally, they would form the #3-#4 pair. Dobson would be a #2. We don't have a true #1. Mayfield's contract is atrocious. We are stuck with it for the next 7 years.

Worse — there is no competition on the roster. Who is the coach going to bench now? Who is going to replace that player? No depth at all. No youth coming.

As far as coaching — I don't think you can put it all on Lambert and his team of coaches. Would I like him to use his time out last night after it became 4-2. YES!!! Would I like him to be more forceful on making this a defense first team the way his predecessor had us structured? YES!!!

Why is the coaching staff trying to take a team that is built as a goalie and defense first team, and turning it into a run-and-gun team? The core of this team is basically the same as it was under Doug Weight. That was a run and gun team It failed. Why? Because they really don't have the skill to be a run and gun team. I liked this team a hell of a lot better when they would go into the 3rd period up 2-1 and lock it down and win it.

The mess remains on Lou. He has weakened the blueline considerably in his tenure. He has committed too much to above average players that make this a bubble team at best.

At the end of the day I could give a crap about the goal sont, the in-game experience, or how pretty the arena is. At the end of the day did we win the f__king game or not?

Firong Lambert would "feel good" but I don't think that is the answer.

The answer is in firing Lou, and the entire front office AND the coaching staff. And beginning anew in the offseason with fresh eyes, and a fresh management team top-to-bottom.

So yeah — this is the team at least through summer. My only hope right now is that ownership has made it clear that no trades will happen without their authorization. The worst thing that could happen to the franchise now is for Lou to trade another young skating player and our first round pick for a 30 something has been. NO. NO. NO.
 

Nassau Revisited

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Jun 16, 2017
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I agree with your second paragraph. Not the first. Bailey had to go.

You run the risk of negative value territory when you hold onto players that are on the downside of their careers even though they might still be somewhat productive.

We’re past that point with JGP and it was a missed opportunity to flip him earlier. While I’m not ready to throw the towel in yet, I’d trade Cizikas in a heartbeat at the TDL for the same reason if we are out of the playoff picture.
With the current roster Bailey would add depth and defensive play. I agree he is cooked but he is no worse than Fasching, Martin, or Clutterbuck

Cizikas should be dealt ASAP before we are stuck with his horrible contract

 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Just finished watching the game, then came here to see if Lambert has been fired yet. It's time.

These blown leads and blown games is more than a trend and he hasn't figured out a way to stop it from happening. It's time to go after you blow a 4-1 third period lead to the worst team in the NHL.
 
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Bones45

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Dec 7, 2005
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Just finished watching the game, then came here to see if Lambert has been fired yet. It's time.

These blown leads and blown games is more than a trend and he hasn't figured out a way to stop it from happening. It's time to go after you blow a 4-1 third period lead to the worst team in the NHL.
As Hye mentioned, HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT TAKE A TIMEOUT after they get 4-2. Knowing the history this team has had recently with blown leads, how does this not seem like a good idea? WTF is he thinking?

Me thinks we are having some leadership and motivation issues. Eff this coach.
 
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PK Cronin

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As Hye mentioned, HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT TAKE A TIMEOUT after they get 4-2. Knowing the history this team has had recently with blown leads, how does this not seem like a good idea? WTF is he thinking?

Me thinks we are having some leadership and motivation issues. Eff this coach.

The crazy part is that I thought they played pretty well for 95% of that game. Saw a lot of good things from different players, and then it's all flushed down the toilet again because they can't figure out how defend late.
 
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NYI365

Let's Go Islanders!
Jun 5, 2011
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Well I for one enjoy experiencing new ways this team continues to find different ways to kick me square in the nuts, year in year out. Doug Weights f*** it all offense no D was thrilling, the days of Yann Danis and Joey McDonald leading the tank for JT was enthralling, but I have to say the Lane Lambert Experience may take the cake for sheer WTF'ery.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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As Hye mentioned, HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT TAKE A TIMEOUT after they get 4-2. Knowing the history this team has had recently with blown leads, how does this not seem like a good idea? WTF is he thinking?

Me thinks we are having some leadership and motivation issues. Eff this coach.
Another example of Lambert not having a read on the changing tide in-game.

The crazy part is that I thought they played pretty well for 95% of that game. Saw a lot of good things from different players, and then it's all flushed down the toilet again because they can't figure out how defend late.
They did. It's not like the Sharks came at the Isles with a 3rd period push. This is one the Islanders gave away. Mental lapses and poor execution. All self-inflicted wounds.
 

PK Cronin

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They did. It's not like the Sharks came at the Isles with a 3rd period push. This is one the Islanders gave away. Mental lapses and poor execution. All self-inflicted wounds.

And that's why this one is so much more alarming than most of the others. Worst team and they didn't even bring a push, it just happened so slowly.
 
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The Real JT

No diving allowed
Jul 2, 2018
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I was unfortunately at the game. I figured — hell — they should win this one, so why not.

That did not go well.

Unacceptable is all well and good — but unless and until there is a consequence here, this is going to happen again, and again, and again.

First of all — we have to be real. The players we have are just not that good.

Sorokin is the only true elite player they have, and the players in front of him are not getting it done.

There are some very strong players in the mix but no one else is at the elite level. Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, Dobson are high end players and I think they are great to have on the team — but they are not elite. Beyond that, the balance of the roster is easily replaceable. Pullock is solid. Pelech is solid. But neither is top-pair caliber in my view. Ideally, they would form the #3-#4 pair. Dobson would be a #2. We don't have a true #1. Mayfield's contract is atrocious. We are stuck with it for the next 7 years.

Worse — there is no competition on the roster. Who is the coach going to bench now? Who is going to replace that player? No depth at all. No youth coming.

As far as coaching — I don't think you can put it all on Lambert and his team of coaches. Would I like him to use his time out last night after it became 4-2. YES!!! Would I like him to be more forceful on making this a defense first team the way his predecessor had us structured? YES!!!

Why is the coaching staff trying to take a team that is built as a goalie and defense first team, and turning it into a run-and-gun team? The core of this team is basically the same as it was under Doug Weight. That was a run and gun team It failed. Why? Because they really don't have the skill to be a run and gun team. I liked this team a hell of a lot better when they would go into the 3rd period up 2-1 and lock it down and win it.

The mess remains on Lou. He has weakened the blueline considerably in his tenure. He has committed too much to above average players that make this a bubble team at best.

At the end of the day I could give a crap about the goal sont, the in-game experience, or how pretty the arena is. At the end of the day did we win the f__king game or not?

Firong Lambert would "feel good" but I don't think that is the answer.

The answer is in firing Lou, and the entire front office AND the coaching staff. And beginning anew in the offseason with fresh eyes, and a fresh management team top-to-bottom.

So yeah — this is the team at least through summer. My only hope right now is that ownership has made it clear that no trades will happen without their authorization. The worst thing that could happen to the franchise now is for Lou to trade another young skating player and our first round pick for a 30 something has been. NO. NO. NO.
A long post but well worth the read. Nicely done.

But aside from the game, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
 

steveat

Registered User
Jun 4, 2011
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I am suffering from major butthurt right now and the pharmacist has nothing that can make the pain go away!
 

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
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Can somebody explain also why Reilly with his skating ability and offensive instincts does not get a single shift in OT?
Yeah, I was king of wondering about that too. I'm a Romanov fan, but he is not an OT player. His skating is fine, but he's not a skilled guy with the puck. Reilly should do well in OT.

And Lee on the ice late to protect a 1 goal lead?

Those kinds of decisions aside, I just keep seeing a team that looks disorganized. No structure. Repeating the same mistakes. Way too many slot chances, and especially cross-slot passes. It's not that complicated to teach, so Lambert either chooses not to focus on that, is a bad teacher, or he is trying to get them to play right and can't hold players accountable to execute.

Lou can't be happy (what he says to the press means nothing). The longer this goes the more I wonder whether ownership is holding Lou to his roster and coach.
 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Yeah, I was king of wondering about that too. I'm a Romanov fan, but he is not an OT player. His skating is fine, but he's not a skilled guy with the puck. Reilly should do well in OT.

And Lee on the ice late to protect a 1 goal lead?

Those kinds of decisions aside, I just keep seeing a team that looks disorganized. No structure. Repeating the same mistakes. Way too many slot chances, and especially cross-slot passes. It's not that complicated to teach, so Lambert either chooses not to focus on that, is a bad teacher, or he is trying to get them to play right and can't hold players accountable to execute.

Lou can't be happy (what he says to the press means nothing). The longer this goes the more I wonder whether ownership is holding Lou to his roster and coach.

It could be that they're doing what he asks but whatever he has them attempting is just bad. I don't think our entire roster has suddenly forgotten how to play defense and the fact that all of them are making the same mistakes leads me to believe it's a systems issue.
 

PJGooch

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Aug 2, 2005
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It could be that they're doing what he asks but whatever he has them attempting is just bad. I don't think our entire roster has suddenly forgotten how to play defense and the fact that all of them are making the same mistakes leads me to believe it's a systems issue.

They look to me like a team that, when the going gets tough, doesn't have the slightest idea what it is the crappy coach wants them to do.
 
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PK Cronin

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They look to me like a team that, when the going gets tough, doesn't have the slightest idea what it is the crappy coach wants them to do.

I've mentioned this before but I haven't re-watched enough to say concretely but it seems like there's a real emphasis on doubling the puck carrier in their own end and it's creating a real problem. We see it when the other team is entering the zone and when the puck goes below the goal line.

I understanding wanting to apply pressure in some situations but it's obviously not working out and needs to be adjusted. We're leaving our defensemen and goaltenders out to dry on a nightly basis when there's a breakdown.
 
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PJGooch

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Aug 2, 2005
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I've mentioned this before but I haven't re-watched enough to say concretely but it seems like there's a real emphasis on doubling the puck carrier in their own end and it's creating a real problem. We see it when the other team is entering the zone and when the puck goes below the goal line.

I understanding wanting to apply pressure in some situations but it's obviously not working out and needs to be adjusted. We're leaving our defensemen and goaltenders out to dry on a nightly basis when there's a breakdown.
Maybe therein lies the confusion. I'm no hockey tactician, but wouldn't a focus on doubling the puck carrier run completely counter to the overall ultra-passive style they employ in their own zone?

I mean, the defensemen can barely move the puck off the wall without smothering it for 3 seconds and coughing it up, but they're also supposed to then rush around doubling forwards?
 

Zeeker

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Feb 15, 2016
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He’s really measured in post game but on bench he’s very animated. He waited a long time for this chance and I’m sure he knows it’s close to being over for him.
Lane Lambert is fired



…up on the bench with his assistants
 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Maybe therein lies the confusion. I'm no hockey tactician, but wouldn't a focus on doubling the puck carrier run completely counter to the overall ultra-passive style they employ in their own zone?

I mean, the defensemen can barely move the puck off the wall without smothering it for 3 seconds and coughing it up, but they're also supposed to then rush around doubling forwards?

Yeah, it's kind of bizarre. I'd guess (and it's purely a guess) that the idea is to pressure the opposition into a mistake quickly to counter attack and limit their zone time. Great in theory but what's actually happening is the timing is off for whatever reason, a fumble here or a weird bounce there, and then it's a disaster.

I'm looking back at the goals from last night right now. Hertl's first goal is a very stereotypical for this team right now. Reilly is defending the puck carrier and flies by him behind the net as the carrier stops behind the goal line and throws the puck out towards the crease. Mayfield is nearby, and Horvat is above him, with only one Sharks player in the frame. Mayfield has a tough time handling the puck at the near post and tries to flip it into the corner. Now there are two Sharks players on the near side post with Mayfield right there and Horvat about three feet further away but still in fine position. Reilly and I think Barzal are both in frame still with no other Sharks player around. Mayfield and Horvat go below the goal line on the near side, Barzal goes to the faceoff dot and swings towards the wall for a breakout pass, while Reilly is on the far post. San Jose was able to retrieve the puck behind the net and dish it out into the high slot for a wide open shot from Hertl. When the pass is made a fifth Islanders, presumably Lee, is in the frame on the far side interior hash mark. So that's 5 Islanders players at or below the hash marks, only two Sharks players that deep, and nobody is covering the most valuable part of the ice. It's like Lee and Barzal are both anticipating the breakout even though the puck was never cleanly handled or retrieved. Reilly looks like he's expecting the puck carrier to go behind the net and he's going to cut them off. Instead, it's in the back of the net. That's just piss poor communication or coverage. 5 Islanders can't be that low and not covering anything of value.

The second goal was a deflection off a Pulock turnover in a bad spot, while the next two were extra attacker situations so a bit harder to dissect, though the second one of those is oddly similar to the first goal.

Puck goes below the goal line, the puck carrier is covered by Horvat, Romanov has Hertl and angles him off behind the net. The puck carrier goes from the corner towards the back of the net, Mayfield inexplicably charges in trying to cut off the pass from the puck carrier to Hertl, even though Romanov has Hertl covered on the back post already and Horvat is covering the puck carrier and not allowing him to get the puck to the slot. The puck carrier pulls up and reverses the puck. At the time of the reception of this pass there are two Islanders below the goal line covering the same player, both wingers (Holmstrom and Lee) are in the frame, and Romanov is leaving the back post to take the puck carrier who is attacking the net since both of his defensive partners are out of position behind the goal line. They're scored on because Romanov had to leave his position back post and Hertl gets the tap in. There are 5 Islanders in the frame and only 3 Sharks, but there's still a goal against. Some might blame Lee for just staring at Hertl and not rushing to him but that's a very difficult position to be in as a winger, especially down a man already. It is not his fault for the breakdown, it's Mayfield trying to double that puck carrier behind the net that causes the issue. If he just stayed where he was he would've been in perfect position to defend the first pass that reversed play towards the near wall.
 

Lek

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Nov 25, 2006
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This is just a very poorly coached team. I have no idea how many times i have said that. Truth though it is and it will not change until we bring in coaches who can, coach well.
 
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The Real JT

No diving allowed
Jul 2, 2018
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Connecticut
IMG_2102.jpeg
 

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