Salary Cap: Gary Roberts and the Incredible Shrinking Kessel

[Riptide]

You really think it would be that cheap? If we get him for the martinez contract (6 years, 24 mil), I would be all for it. I was thinking it would be ~5.5....

There's not one comparable that earned that much. Go look at what Brodin and Josi did in their first two seasons - because both did more and did it better than Maatta. The closest who've come off of their ELC's to make significantly more than 5m was Myers and Hamilton - and both did significantly more than Maatta. Myers got a 10 yr deal (and had just won the Calder) while Calgary was under threat of an offersheet had they not gotten something done quickly. Basically there's no comparables that come close to making more than 4.7m - and most are a lot closer to 4m then 4.7m.

But just in case that's not enough, here's other D that signed long term deals as their 2nd contract.

Brodin - 6x4.16m
Josi - 7x4m
McDonagh - 6x4.7m
Gardiner - 5x4.05m
Carlson - 6x3.96m
Shattenkirk - 4x4.25m
Hedman - 5x4m
Larsson - 6x4.16m

Now I'm not going to go look up exactly how their seasons went prior to signing those contracts, but I suspect that if they're anything like Brodin and Josi's those players all likely proved more than Maatta at this point in time and were just as good if not better.

Basically the going rate for a young D on a long term contract is in the low 4m.

Are all those D currently underpaid? Absolutely. But in the end, for the player the money isn't all that different if he takes a bridge deal today and a solid contract after, vs a long term one now and a solid one after this. You're talking something like 2-5m difference, with the player taking all the risk. A long term contract puts that risk on the team, and guarantee's that in the even that something happens, he's set financially for the rest of his life.

Feel free to read this post as to why it's in the players interest to go for the money.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104070139&postcount=654

 

[Riptide]

He's bad as a top six option. Why? He's lost--or losing--his wheels rapidly. His production has taken a precipitous drop over the past few years, culminating in what we saw last season. He's not physical, he doesn't bust his ass anymore. He can't/won't work to create space for Sid or Geno, and he won't forecheck/hit to wear down the opposition.

I get that you don't like him... but really, at least you could be factual in what **** you're spewing.

2011/12 - 82 gms, 26 goals, 61 points, 180 hits
2012/13 - 48 gms, 22 goals, 52 points, 104 hits (37.5 goal, 88.8 pt, 177 hit pace),
2013/14 - 78 gms, 35 goals, 68 points, 157 hits
2014/15 - 74 gms, 17 goals, 40 points, 211 hits

Funny... other than one single season, this doesn't look like a player who isn't physical and who's (going to quote your words here) "production has taken a precipitous over the past few years"

Was last year disastrous? Absolutely. But prior to that, say what you want about him, but the production was there - as was for the most part his physical game.

 

[Riptide]

Ugh. with honourable mention to #3.

His hatred for the Despres trade continues to be funny, but **** with Lovejoy still on the team, JR.

You don't think Pouliot has work to do to learn the league? There's absolutely things he needs to work on to refine his game - especially in the defensive end.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You don't think Pouliot has work to do to learn the league? There's absolutely things he needs to work on to refine his game - especially in the defensive end.

No, I think that the combination of saying you'll make a spot for Gonchar and saying that Pouliot needs to learn is concerning. Pouliot has a lot to learn, but a D with Scuderi, Gonchar and Lovejoy is disastrous.

 

[DoktorZaius]

It's about cap management for me. And if you can't sell a 2 time Cup winner for a 2nd or 3rd round pick a year and change removed from a 35 goal season and Olympic gold medal to a league with plenty of questionable GMs who eat intangibles up, then I'd question your ability as a management group.

He has a limited NTC.

Sure, some teams made some questionable moves. But that doesn't mean any of the 8 we can trade Kunitz to have any interest. Just look what it took for the Hawks had to move to get rid of Sharp -- they had to include a decent young D prospect to get the deal done.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I get that you don't like him... but really, at least you could be factual in what **** you're spewing.

2011/12 - 82 gms, 26 goals, 61 points, 180 hits
2012/13 - 48 gms, 22 goals, 52 points, 104 hits (37.5 goal, 88.8 pt, 177 hit pace),
2013/14 - 78 gms, 35 goals, 68 points, 157 hits
2014/15 - 74 gms, 17 goals, 40 points, 211 hits

Funny... other than one single season, this doesn't look like a player who isn't physical and who's (going to quote your words here) "production has taken a precipitous over the past few years"

Was last year disastrous? Absolutely. But prior to that, say what you want about him, but the production was there - as was for the most part his physical game.

Staaaaatz bruh.

I don't care what the arbitrary hit stats say. I've watched Kunitz float around, be lazy as Hell, and shy away from the hard areas of the ice for years now. Like, before the last Olympics, which he was only invited to because he's closely related to Sid. Whether you've been able to glean that from games by watching them--hint; it's been obvious--or whether you're content to stare at stat-sheets is another story I guess.

 

[deakka]

You don't think Pouliot has work to do to learn the league? There's absolutely things he needs to work on to refine his game - especially in the defensive end.

He does have to work on the defensive sid eof the game. But combine if with the part about "making room for gonchar" and the puzzle starts to shape up. Pouliot is the only one who doesnt have to pass through waivers.

And while he HAS to work on his defense, im not sure playing against lower level in the AHL is the best way for him to do that. He needs to be up against the best possible competiotion imo.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Staaaaatz bruh.

I don't care what the arbitrary hit stats say. I've watched Kunitz float around, be lazy as Hell, and shy away from the hard areas of the ice for years now. Like, before the last Olympics, which he was only invited to because he's closely related to Sid. Whether you've been able to glean that from games by watching them--hint; it's been obvious--or whether you're content to stare at stat-sheets is another story I guess.

But you want people to listen to your arbitrary and obviously biased opinion?

Its obvious he isn't the same player he used to be, he's a bit slower, a his hands disappeared last year, and his hits don't have the same punch they used to. But the revisionist history your creating is both silly and completely hyperbolic.

 

[Rufus]

Staaaaatz bruh.

I don't care what the arbitrary hit stats say. I've watched Kunitz float around, be lazy as Hell, and shy away from the hard areas of the ice for years now. Like, before the last Olympics, which he was only invited to because he's closely related to Sid. Whether you've been able to glean that from games by watching them--hint; it's been obvious--or whether you're content to stare at stat-sheets is another story I guess.

So we should believe your opinion over stats? Yes, stats don't always indicate the compete level of a player, but you are not offering anything against the stats beyond saying Kunitz is lazy

 

[Speaking Moistly]

It's media day for the Pens, so some good quotes and Kessel pictures could happen.

 

[DegenX]

It's media day for the Pens, so some good quotes and Kessel pictures could happen.

They've had some of the guys out and about. Pooh and Olli were at a McDonalds. Cole was at a Dunkin Donuts. And, of course they sent Horny to Dick's

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They've had some of the guys out and about. Pooh and Olli were at a McDonalds. Cole was at a Dunkin Donuts. And, of course they sent Horny to Dick's

I saw, they've been getting adventurous ("adventurous") with their PR this preseason. Whoever sent Horny to Dick's deserves praise.

Ian Cole is a gem.


Kessel in the lesser jersey as Crosby lords his hairline over them.

 

[Riptide]

Staaaaatz bruh.

I don't care what the arbitrary hit stats say. I've watched Kunitz float around, be lazy as Hell, and shy away from the hard areas of the ice for years now. Like, before the last Olympics, which he was only invited to because he's closely related to Sid. Whether you've been able to glean that from games by watching them--hint; it's been obvious--or whether you're content to stare at stat-sheets is another story I guess.

I wasn't talking about his game... I was pointing out the simple fact that in your quest to hate on him, you had to lie about it. Because the bottom line is other than last year, his production hasn't been "declining for years" like you claim.

 

[lettuceAA]

I saw, they've been getting adventurous ("adventurous") with their PR this preseason. Whoever sent Horny to Dick's deserves praise.

Ian Cole is a gem.


Kessel in the lesser jersey as Crosby lords his hairline over them.

Its been a long time since I was this excited for an NHL season to start.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Intimidation face looks a lot like sexy Kessel face.

 

[DegenX]

I saw, they've been getting adventurous ("adventurous") with their PR this preseason. Whoever sent Horny to Dick's deserves praise.

Ian Cole is a gem.


Kessel in the lesser jersey as Crosby lords his hairline over them.

Fer shure

Am I the only one who thinks Bonino looks like an Amish dude?

For sure getting excited for the season, especially with camp starting tomorrow. Now, all we need is for Capp to grace us with his presence and we know it's on

 

[Speaking Moistly]

 

[ILikeTurtles]

Thanks vabm8 for posting all of those. Also all of those read awkwardly, on a Dan Bylsma interview level of awkward.

 

[Empoleon8771]

"Our D will be a lot more active offensively"

Read between the lines. There's no chance in hell Scuderi is playing.

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

"like a man"

 

[Sam Spade]

"Our D will be a lot more active offensively"

Read between the lines. There's no chance in hell Scuderi is playing.

Keep the faith.

 

[Stad]

MJ and JR saying all the right things, damn I am giddy for the season to start.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Keep the faith.

How is that keeping the faith though? Either MJ is just blatantly lying (which would be the case if Scuderi was in the lineup) or Scuderi is out of the lineup.

With JR saying that the plan is to run with 8 D on the roster, I'm guessing Scuderi and Gonchar will be our extra D. That's at least good for WBS, Clendening, Erixon and Andersen is a pretty good start of a D group for them.

 

[Asuna]

8 defenseman? Damn

 

[WayneSid9987]

Alrighty so 8 D, which i figured they would do:

Letang
Maata
Cole
LJ
Domoulin
Pouliot
Scuderi

8th-Gonchar/Erixon/Clendening/Andersen/Oleksy

OR

Letang
Maata
Cole
LJ
Domoulin
Scuderi

7th and 8th-Gonchar/Erixon/Clendening/Andersen/Oleksy
with Pouliot starting in the AHL.