Post-Game Talk: Garbage PP costs us. Oilers lose 6-4 to Bolts

[trent_vinyl]

Pp is garbage. System worked in SJ because they are a team that wins the majority of board battles and is a possession team. Over halfway through the season and Woodcroft still hasn't taken Schultz or Hunt of the ****ing pp. Can't wait till Klefa comes back because the powerplay actually looked decent when he was up top.

I just don't understand why Hunt is even out there. He can't defend (see first goal against) and he creates nothing out there offensively.

 

[Ninety7]

Nuge would've blocked that shot....

Bone headed play by Nilsson there. I think yak was anticipating the poke check so he stopped skating for a split second with the intention to turn and chase the puck and get it out of the zone.

Unfortunately yak can't be cheating like that.

 

[Toggel]

Talbot would've blocked that shot

because he wouldn't have tried to poke check it at the blue line...

 

[bucks_oil]

Well it's about time guys in the bottom 6 started helping. Pakarinen, Letustu and Kassian all chipping in with goals in a game is something we don't rarely see.

He came in knowing he was playing for a job. Maybe the others (Pak, Latestu, etc) are only now realizing it?

 

[Replacement*]

I'd be more concerned if I have a Bolts fans today. Barely beat a team who played back to back nights and is missing RNH, McDavid and Klefbom. Also played their backup who hasn't played in a long time.

Took the second off an that really hurt us, as well as Nilsson and his stupid play on a PP.

Yep. They're winning a lot of games ugly. Seem to have all the luck of the Calgary Flames. But I think part of it is they tend to make other clubs nervous when they get untracked with their speed game. They're good throwing the puck around and teams for some reason start to forget basics like maintaining positioning.

Be physical against Tampa and play a sensible well executed positional game and you can hold them back. Start trading scoring chances and its starting to look like trouble.

That said the Oilers made tons of mistakes in both games and still stuck around and also typically score more goals against Tampa than they get against most clubs.

Can't understand peoples opinion of Gryba saying he's 'garbage". Even in GDT I see Gryba do a fine job of just maintaining positioning on Palat who is trying to do so fancy stick handling, Gryba wasn't concerned with it, kept Palat to the outside where he had no play. But to someone not paying attention to maintaining body positioning it might look like Palat schooled Gryba. He didn't and ended up with no chance.

All the small Tampa players tempt this with their stickwork. They want you to bite on it. Just take the body, squeeze them off, or maintain inside positioning.

Teams need to do a better job scouting against Tampa. Theres ways to beat them.

 

[Young Lions*]

The thing I find hilarious is that Kassian is already one of the best players on the team. Some other team's garbage, who hasn't played basically all year, is already one of THE best players on the Oilers. And he's not even a defenseman. What does that say?

It says to me that a new guy with something to prove is going to come in full of piss and vinegar. He'll have his moments where you want him traded for a 8th round pick, don't you worry.

 

[doulos]

I'd be more concerned if I have a Bolts fans today. Barely beat a team who played back to back nights and is missing RNH, McDavid and Klefbom. Also played their backup who hasn't played in a long time.

Took the second off an that really hurt us, as well as Nilsson and his stupid play on a PP.

They have won 7 of their last 8 and their offense is just starting to roll. I don't think Tampa Bay fans are going to have to worry at all. Good chance they get to watch a nice long playoff run yet again.

 

[trent_vinyl]

Yeah. he really seems to have no idea. Most pro goalies know who is coming up ice and recognize it. They recognize what is available and who has the puck. Its Boyle FFs. The worst that's going to happen is he dumps it in the corner. jebus

2nd goal he doesn't read that it is a skilled player, Kucherov, that will read open ice and simply slides across and tucks it in the open side. kucherov could score that goal all day. Nillson went down early, awkwardly, and was not able to push off. He instead simply does splits ala Scrivens and hopes and prays a guy with 19 goals isn't going to score there..

4th goal I have no idea. Fairly routine shot that Nillson turns into a pop fly and then with no clue where the puck is. Where do you think it is..

I think the 4th goal was deflected off of one of the guys in front and ended up hitting Nillson's blocker accidentally. As such, he had no idea where it went. Not sure about blaming him on that one.

 

[Replacement*]

Bone headed play by Nilsson there. I think yak was anticipating the poke check so he stopped skating for a split second with the intention to turn and chase the puck and get it out of the zone.

Unfortunately yak can't be cheating like that.

Wow, all the microanalysis continuing. Meanwhile Schultz, who actually happens to be a D, is floating all the way in and is thus absolved of any fault managing to stay out of the select sphere of Camera frame. A trick Omark perfected here. When a play looks like its going to be bad stay as far away from it as possible, Staples will never hang an "error" stat on you.

The reality here if one is watching the whole play unfold is that Yak beats Schultz back because he bothers to be hustling back before anybody else. Which only earns him ignominy for being in the camera frame during somebody elses cluster**** (Nillson)

Which reminds me. Some dolt used to keep a stat on how many times players lost a puck. This was thought to be significant and with players losing the most battles for the puck assumed to be poor players who should be traded. Further analysis however revealed those that lost puck battles the most were usually players adept enough to be in the right position for puck battles and engaging in puck battles. What got outed is that the players that lost few puck battles were actually the floaters and dog *******.

I'll rarely fault players for at least trying to be in the play.

 

[joestevens29]

He came in knowing he was playing for a job. Maybe the others (Pak, Latestu, etc) are only now realizing it?

Tough to say. Might be more fluke than anything. Pak has looked amazing as of late and things came together. As for Letestu he's been scoring at a decent pace this year only one back of RNH.

In the end this was a back to back game against a team that has been pretty hot as of late. You score 4 goals and lose, I don't think you can really blame the offense.

 

[trent_vinyl]

WOw Yak had a horrible game. Turnover after turnover. He barely hustled to get back on the last goal but it was his puck decisions throughout the game that made me shake my head. Its time to cut bait with this guy and I really love the man but not the player. I really do he could've been so much better had we kept Kreuger but whats done is done his confidence is shot and its not coming back. Thanks Eakins.

Nilsson wtf I had so much hope for him when he came. Oilers gonna oil.

I was going to mention this earlier. Yak did have a brutal game. Tons of giveaways and not getting the puck deep in Tampa's zone. Really looked like he reverted back to his clueless ways (although he hadn't really progressed all that much).

 

[bucks_oil]

Bone headed play by Nilsson there. I think yak was anticipating the poke check so he stopped skating for a split second with the intention to turn and chase the puck and get it out of the zone.

Unfortunately yak can't be cheating like that.

Agree...

I think we have to accept/understand that Yak's defensive instincts are NEVER going to be NHL caliber. He can be trained and is a willing learner, but every situation is going to require us to establish the specific rules and judgement that other players are just born with. He doesn't process the game from any part of the brain that assesses risk.

Hint... Yak... when the net is empty, and you are the first man back, that's the biggest risk.... not... if he makes the poke check the puck might be free near the blueline.

You all can say what you want about 2007 - 2014, but what I wouldn't give for a set of role players like Horc, Stoll, Pisani, Peca, Dvorak, Torres, even the captain Moreau. It's no wonder the room became divided... those guys could process the game in a way that might actually lead to some TEAM success instead of individual glory.

On a team like that you only needed one Hemsky, one Smyth and one Pronger to be a contender. Imagine going back in time to replace Hemmer with Hall, Smyth with ... well no, we keep Smytty, Samsonov with Ebs and Rem the Gem with Draisaitl.

Our cupboard is so bare... do we even have a single guy that we might develop the way we did with most of those guys? Any chance at all that we might be able to develop a 15g 20a solid checker instead of having to pay $3M/year every summer to find one (at a time... only to see them get old or get useless or both before we fill out the rest of the bottom 6).

We are *really paying for those years of no farm team.

 

[Replacement*]

I think the 4th goal was deflected off of one of the guys in front and ended up hitting Nillson's blocker accidentally. As such, he had no idea where it went. Not sure about blaming him on that one.

Nah, part of it is fundamentals and rote preparation. Quick as mentioned is an expert at this. if he senses a puck has gone high he immediately turtles to the net and seals his back to the crossbar so that a puck will not bounce in that way. The moment he loses sight of a puck and sense its behind him he does this which is just good practice. Nillson is a sloppy goalie who hasn't even thought through that process. Good goalies go over in their minds what sets they adopt in different situations.

Next, to avoid such deflections that go behind and to make shooters life more difficult many goalies, and particularly shorter goalies will lean forward slightly to close off shooting angle to top of net. Big goalies, normally not having to do this are more susceptible to the puck bouncing up over them as they are in a more straight up position to begin with if this makes any sense. They don't lean shoulders forward as much. Dubnyk had the same problem. It happens to taller goalies as they can get to this level without as much focus on ideal positioning sets.

When I see a big goalie one of the first things I start to assess is how far did size alone get them ahead. Are they relying primarily on size or have they honed their game well to utilize it most effectively. In Nillsons case he's also clumsy. The 2nd goal is due to that and him not being in a proper set to push across. he then instead has no choice but to split and Kucherov solves that easily.

Talbot slides across to make that save on the 2nd goal multiple times a night and makes it look easy and people hardly notice. They figure it was a routine save. Nillson floundered on the play.

 

[bucks_oil]

Tough to say. Might be more fluke than anything. Pak has looked amazing as of late and things came together. As for Letestu he's been scoring at a decent pace this year only one back of RNH.

In the end this was a back to back game against a team that has been pretty hot as of late. You score 4 goals and lose, I don't think you can really blame the offense.

That's fair and I agree. I wasn't blaming the checkers, especially last night... just commenting that the injection of a new dog in the penn might be causing others to raise their game.

Truthfully I thought Nilsson (on two goals), Gryba, Yak and Hunt all looked weak. Sekera looked... very human and decidedly a #4, not a top pairing guy.

Gryba... I mean I just didn't understand his positioning. He was practically bumping into his D partner when we'd recover the puck, instead of finding quiet ice to be a relief valve. It was no wonder we couldn't move the puck out. What should have been instantaneous DtoD passes from crowded space to quiet space had to be delayed every time while Gryba backed away into the space he should have been in... then the passes were either no longer available, or much more difficult.

People can say what they want about Reinhart's foot speed, but the guy had the sense to make things easy on himself and on his partner. He should be up.

 

[joestevens29]

That's fair and I agree. I wasn't blaming the checkers, especially last night... just commenting that the injection of a new dog in the penn might be causing others to raise their game.

Truthfully I thought Nilsson (on two goals), Gryba, Yak and Hunt all looked weak. Sekera looked... very human and decidedly a #4, not a top pairing guy.

Gryba... I mean I just didn't understand his positioning. He was practically bumping into his D partner when we'd recover the puck, instead of finding quiet ice to be a relief valve. It was no wonder we couldn't move the puck out. What should have been instantaneous DtoD passes from crowded space to quiet space had to be delayed every time while Gryba backed away into the space he should have been in... then the passes were either no longer available, or much more difficult.

People can say what they want about Reinhart's foot speed, but the guy had the sense to make things easy on himself and on his partner. He should be up.

I have a hard time blaming Yak for much. He's still hurting.

I enjoyed the game though. Back to backs rarely go in your favour and this team somehow found a way to come back 3 times in one game.

 

[bucks_oil]

Nah, part of it is fundamentals and rote preparation. Quick as mentioned is an expert at this. if he senses a puck has gone high he immediately turtles to the net and seals his back to the crossbar so that a puck will not bounce in that way. The moment he loses sight of a puck and sense its behind him he does this which is just good practice. Nillson is a sloppy goalie who hasn't even thought through that process. Good goalies go over in their minds what sets they adopt in different situations.

Next, to avoid such deflections that go behind and to make shooters life more difficult many goalies, and particularly shorter goalies will lean forward slightly to close off shooting angle to top of net. Big goalies, normally not having to do this are more susceptible to the puck bouncing up over them as they are in a more straight up position to begin with if this makes any sense. They don't lean shoulders forward as much. Dubnyk had the same problem. It happens to taller goalies as they can get to this level without as much focus on ideal positioning sets.

When I see a big goalie one of the first things I start to assess is how far did size alone get them ahead. Are they relying primarily on size or have they honed their game well to utilize it most effectively. In Nillsons case he's also clumsy. The 2nd goal is due to that and him not being in a proper set to push across. he then instead has no choice but to split and Kucherov solves that easily.

Talbot slides across to make that save on the 2nd goal multiple times a night and makes it look easy and people hardly notice. They figure it was a routine save. Nillson floundered on the play.

Mostly agree on this. It was a really bad push on that 2nd goal.... forgetting the fact that when coverage to the backdoor is so clearly (and early) blown, he should be the guy to notice and yell. The first thing you do as you are establishing proper position yourself is look to the threats (passes) that can beat you. If I guy is streaking far side, you make sure you aren't too far out and you yell for coverage.

 

[Replacement*]

A player deemed to be in control and possession of the puck can skate backwards into the zone and not violate the off-side rule.

The trouble is that the rule as set out creates interpretation issues and bias.

For instance that Stamkos is assumed to have control of the puck because, well, he's Stamkos and adept with the puck even if he loses it.

Conversely a player like Gazdik might actually have similar "control" of the puck and be deemed to put himself offside on the same play.

The puck should be on the stick. Stickhandling, like dribbling, is an act where you can lose possession when challenged. Which happens all the time at the line as that's where opposition challenges.

The rule should either be puck has to cross line before player or the puck should be in contact with players stick to be ruled "in control"

 

[Replacement*]

Mostly agree on this. It was a really bad push on that 2nd goal.... forgetting the fact that when coverage to the backdoor is so clearly (and early) blown, he should be the guy to notice and yell. The first thing you do as you are establishing proper position yourself is look to the threats (passes) that can beat you. If I guy is streaking far side, you make sure you aren't too far out and you yell for coverage.

With the proviso that Talbot is astute enough to know that Kucherov has the back door and that its open and that he needs to close it. Talbot is saving bacon on this club 10 times night making saves that require utmost anticipation. He's reading plays and reading right almost all the time.

Nillson just isn't at a level where he thinks the game through like that and isn't likely to be.

I mean its Kucherov with the puck, a skilled goal scorer with patience that is comfortable possessing the puck and waiting goalies out. Even as a viewer I know he's going to take the play wide. I'm already going gaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!

 

[doulos]

I didn't get a chance to watch much of the game last night. It's disheartening to hear about Yakupov though. Guy loves the sports and works so hard, and you can see the talent come through at times, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to have the consistency needed to be a top end NHL player. What a disaster of a first overall pick so far

 

[bucks_oil]

I have a hard time blaming Yak for much. He's still hurting.

I enjoyed the game though. Back to backs rarely go in your favour and this team somehow found a way to come back 3 times in one game.

That's fair on Yak. He's a favorite of mine, but I've given up hope on his intelligence. We need (as a team) to find a way to make better use of his physical skills and his heart. McDavid coming back will help.

I'd keep him until our gaps begin to be addressed (unless he could be an asset... right now he can't). Then when time comes to upgrade, or to buttress for the future, he'd be gone for a solid 25+25 winger, or packaged with a D to upgrade.

For the moment we've no choice but to play to his exceptional strengths and build those until other GMs appreciate those over his shortcomings. There will come a time when we have an excess of offense and a sufficient defense (I know... crazy right), but our championship hopes will not be able to tolerate players as one dimensional as Yak... a wild card... especially when we'll have more than enough offense from more reliable players.

 

[Replacement*]

I have a hard time blaming Yak for much. He's still hurting.

I enjoyed the game though. Back to backs rarely go in your favour and this team somehow found a way to come back 3 times in one game.

I enjoyed it too. Oilers had a lot of game in this game to excuse the pun.

For instance players like Pakarinen, Kassian, Gryba, Nurse, Hendricks, Drai, Hall that are bringing the physical play out there are establishing a somewhat different brand of Oilers hockey that is much easier on the eye.

To me a forecheck without some hitting, riding people into the boards etc, isn't being everything it can be. Take the guy out to take the puck off him, I always like that. This team is steadily becoming harder to play against.

We played segments of the game well when we were being aggressive and going at the Lightning limiting their space and finishing checks.

Tampa was taking the game over when we got to watching their fancy play. We get stationary when watching and lose positioning. As a team we're not the only ones.

 

[joestevens29]

I didn't get a chance to watch much of the game last night. It's disheartening to hear about Yakupov though. Guy loves the sports and works so hard, and you can see the talent come through at times, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to have the consistency needed to be a top end NHL player. What a disaster of a first overall pick so far

Yak was also injured very early in the game and needed help getting to the bench and to the locker room. Might have something to do with why he was getting caught last night.

 

[doulos]

Yak was also injured very early in the game and needed help getting to the bench and to the locker room. Might have something to do with why he was getting caught last night.

Unfortunate to hear. He was looking really good since coming back from what I watched.

 

[Lacaar]

It says to me that a new guy with something to prove is going to come in full of piss and vinegar. He'll have his moments where you want him traded for a 8th round pick, don't you worry.

I think that says something about the team over the last 10 years.
It may even have something to do with Canadian teams struggles.

Is there something about winter? Our dollar? this City? Pressure?

That sucks the life out of hockey players?

It just seems that whenever someone comes here to play hockey they start off great. Then something kicks in over time and they get worse and worse.

I predict Kassian's motivated play and general effectiveness will deteriorate.
More than the norm for a player. Oiler players depreciate fast.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I bet Dallas is thrilled they get the slump busters next.