Post-Game Talk: Game # whatever | Canucks 3 - No wait! - 2 @ Leafs 4

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thepuckmonster

Professional Winner.
Oct 25, 2011
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Why? Because Horvat has one goal in 15 games, and has been on the ice for more even-strength goals than any other forward....how's that for a start?....worse, he's losing critical faceoffs on the pk and seems to have totally lost his confidence handling the puck...so far at least, McCann has totally outplayed him....not the first time a high draft pick has faltered in his second year, but they should either park him and let him watch or get him to Utica imo.

I disagree with sending him to Utica but I agree with everything else. He's really fighting the puck this year and the aspects of his game that seemed so strong last season are his weaknesses now.

I don't know if its confidence or deployment, both or something else but it's not exactly thrilling to see him struggling this much almost a 1/4 way through the season. I'm about as big of a Horvat homer as they come but he's looked really bad.
 

Jeremy2020

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Dec 27, 2005
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Does anyone think the coaches challenge is a good idea? Hey, let's take one of the most exciting moments in the game and then have people just sit down and wait to see if it is going to stand...Brilliant.
 

Luongos Knob

PDO Kings
Jan 20, 2009
4,268
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Does anyone think the coaches challenge is a good idea? Hey, let's take one of the most exciting moments in the game and then have people just sit down and wait to see if it is going to stand...Brilliant.

Because its better to let goals that shouldnt count stand?
 

thepuckmonster

Professional Winner.
Oct 25, 2011
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Does anyone think the coaches challenge is a good idea? Hey, let's take one of the most exciting moments in the game and then have people just sit down and wait to see if it is going to stand...Brilliant.

I think in theory it's a decent idea but the fact that the league is overturning results because someone breathed the wrong way on a goalie is bunk.

Again, I feel like the NHL is trying to hard to fix a problem that isn't there. Get rid of obstruction and MAYBE make the crease smaller. All of these bizarre and convoluted ways to artificially up scoring are a disservice to the game.

Like Intagibos said, if you're not going to call obstruction penalties you're no longer reffing the game by the rulebook, only by ref perception. They make their jobs so much more complicated than it needs to be. If you want to enforce goalie interference then the league should be waiving off any goal where the goalie is physically interfered with from making a save. Not the on-off decision of whether or not he would have made it anyway.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
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We'll take out the inflated start 4-5 games, and we are right in the hunt for Austin Matthews. So there's a bright side. I think by seasons end, we will have a chance at him. Won't be last overall but maybe bottom 4-5.
Every team would be in the "hunt" if you removed their wins.
 

thepuckmonster

Professional Winner.
Oct 25, 2011
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The NHL should just make the rinks larger.

Not European size, but just larger.

that would increase the speed and make the games more fun to watch.

I would like this but you know that the owners would be so pissed to take out seats for it.

Instead they'll make goalie pads smaller, nothing will change and then they'll be something new to ***** about in 3 months.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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if i was an owner, there's no way i'd take out two front rows of seats, which i'm guessing is about 750 total seats?? when i have the option of increasing net size or making pads smaller

those seats are literally millions of dollars over the course of a season
 

thekernel

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
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Gongshow of a game, for many reasons.

-Every now and again I am reminded and disgusted at how often the officials will call a game according to the state of the game instead of THE ****ING RULES IN THE RULEBOOK. All interference in the last 10-15 minutes of a game is allowed, goaltender included, so long as the score is close. "Let them play" = "make me puke". If they were serious about increasing scoring in this league, they wouldn't let score effects handle the refereeing for them.

-For the life of me I can't figure out how Miller is deemed to be able to make a save on the Lupul goal. There is one chance for him to stop that shot--get his paddle out-- and that is being completely taken away by whoever-the-**** was interfering. Of all the egregious challenges that have resulted in overturned goals, I would have thought this one to be the
biggest slam dunk of all. My jaw hit the floor when they ruled it "good"...

-Jannik Hansen should only play with the Sedins in one scenario: when they are playing poorly. If the Twins are playing well, get Hansen the **** off their line because he kills any momentum they get going. He can't cycle with them, he can't pass like them. He can retrieve pucks and make simple passes and simple shots, but that kind of simple game only really serves to refresh the Sedin's perspective.

-Hansen's goal tonight embodied everything he should be doing as a Sedin linemate: fight for the puck, make chaos, don't get too fancy with your chances. If he played every game with the Twins like that, he might have been a legitimate linemate for them; but this season and past seasons have shown that not only does he lack the hands and creativity to play against top defenders, he doesn't realize it when his confidence gets going. If he isn't thinking "chance up ice" while Spaling is breathing down his neck, I doubt the Canucks get scored on by Lupul there

-Unfortunately, him scoring probably means we'll get another game of him on the 1st PP and 1st line. Being offensively inept doesn't exactly reveal itself in the stats he's putting up -- rest assured, he won't get those same stats playing 20 minutes per night. With any luck, next game he'll play within his boundaries. The minute he starts thinking "I need to create", he's going to drag the Twins down again. But enough about Hansen.

-Bartkowski is lol. I get how management was wooed by him -- such skating! Great wheels! Can really work it out of trouble! But the reality has been harsh. He doesn't have poise. He doesn't have sense. He's always too far up in a play...bad pinches, bad joining of rushes, bad reads, bad passes, bad forecheck, and my least favorite trait of all, is his willingness to just throw the puck away. This is a signature of inept defenders -- they get the puck while under duress, and so they just throw it away. No thinking, no calmness, just panicked whipping of the puck to nowhere but the other team's sticks. His lack of poise rivals Sbisa or Bieksa. A puck on Hutton or Tanev's stick is out of trouble, or on a wide-open teammate's stick. When's the last time Bart reversed to a defender behind the net for an easy out?

-Yannick Weber is a passenger. He's a passenger on the JVR goal, a passenger on the Lupul goal, a passenger on the powerplay....things just happen all around him and he has no ability to impact them.

-The depth scoring on this team worries me. I was expecting some ice time for the kids, I was expecting some growing pains, and I wasn't expecting an older core to get any faster....but the young guns are getting buried, and all the money in the world can't buy Vrbata a goal right now. The bottom 9 of the lineup doesn't have to do much work in the scoring department -- just supplement the Twins' offense and we'll make the playoffs -- but "consistency" is not something we know these kids can bring for sure.

-I fear for any goalie that has to play in Toronto, for real. It is not healthy for any human's psyche to be put through that fishbowl, those trials of praise and condemnation. Reimer has seen the good and the bad, and is fortunately getting the good side again...but how long until Glenn Healy and Craig Simpson and Don Cherry start ripping on him for letting in softies like they love to do for Bernier? The heaps and droves of appraisal they lavished upon Reimer tonight...he had a damn fine game and has been having a good stretch...but this was a demonstrable extreme of a spectrum, like, "star goaltender" levels of delusion. The other extreme is equally ugly -- e.g. guys like Steve Simmons writing utterly fallacious slag-pieces...Why can't the CBC and Toronto media just have realistic expectations of the TML players? If the organization and its fans had any desire to see their team win they wouldn't let their players be subjected to such manic dramatization of events.


Whew, I feel better now. Onto the next game
 

The Jesus*

Guest
I want Vrbata off this team now. I dont even care about a return anymore. Get that cancerous, lazy POS off this hockey team.

Sven Baertschi is not an NHL player and never will be.

Ryan Miller has been poor, but is the biggest reason we are where we are in the standings. But the guy is clearly not having a fun time here. It's time to give Markstrom some more starts and see if he's ready to be the #1.
 

Verviticus

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Jul 23, 2010
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-Jannik Hansen should only play with the Sedins in one scenario: when they are playing poorly. If the Twins are playing well, get Hansen the **** off their line because he kills any momentum they get going. He can't cycle with them, he can't pass like them. He can retrieve pucks and make simple passes and simple shots, but that kind of simple game only really serves to refresh the Sedin's perspective.

this just isnt true. he's their best linemate at this point and by every metric has been either the best or in league with the best for the past five years
 

racerjoe

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Jun 3, 2012
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My thoughts... well that happened.

Not a great game, very sloppy, we deserved our fate, I had no real issue with the reffs, maybe on the Burrows call, it was pretty bad.

Someone pointed out to me, what was bad on the Lupul goal, was Miller is hit in the arm, and this causes him to bat the puck over to Lupul. When I see that then yeah it should be called off. He does however, have no chance once the puck was hit towards Lupul.

Wasn't Virtanens game, he really didn't look good.

Edler is playing with no confidence.

Bo is having a tough time out there, but nothing I would complain about. I think it is a combination of small things. different linemates, not great linemates either, trying to do too much, and being asked to do too much. He should be fine.

Really bugs me to call up a young kid to sit him in the press box.

So Weber on PP1, and we scored... who else saw that coming?

I don't like our lines at the moment. We are trying to balance scoring too much and giving guys no one to play with. Although the McCann line looked good.

Miller... he made some great saves, yet still was up and down. Seems to have gone away from some of the things he worked on and challenges a lot more now. PP goal is a prime example. Bad read.
 

tantalum

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There was nothing wrong with the reviews last night. They got every call correct. It doesn't really matter for thus game if they got other calls in other games right or wrong. This game proper calls were made after review. Including the lupul goal...while we may think a goalie getting breathed on is leading to no goals it's a really a goalie being breathed on while attempting to save a puck that is leading to no goals. Miller was not hindered on the play because he made no attempt to get over. Rightly or wrongly he gave up on the play. Hansen kick in and Sedin offside were obvious. Plenty of poor riffing to go around for both teams otherwise. They gave up 40 shots. They made bad turnovers. The scored two (legitimate) goals on over 40 shots. It isn't on the refs or the people in the war room.

And no the Canucks don't miss the likes of Sbisa who would has been joining in with the giveaways, the poorly thought out decision to join the rush etc. Sutter they may miss because he's a competent third line center...then again they have been bad with him the past few weeks as well.

I said at the beginning of the year that if you have a chance to have 4 or 5 rookies in your lineup, two junior aged, there is a very good chance you lack depth and aren't a good team. Horvat hasn't been good then again he is being asked to do a lot of heavy lifting and has been all year. So much for Sutter providing protection... He's struggling to be sure but minors or other nonsense I don't think so.

This is a one line, one or two D-man team. That's it. Sometimes the kids will excel and they'll have a good stretch but in general unless the twins are putting up a couple goals and the Tanev pairing is playing 25 minutes of mistake free hockey this team is going to find it hard to win.

Some say youth movement and they can satisfy themselves with that but this coaching staff and management group believe they have a good to very good team we aren't seeing it at this point. We are seeing what I think most expected to see though. 4 wins in 14 games. A starter that is getting outplayed by guys at the other end of the rink far too often. Super duper speedy players that can't pass worth ****.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
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The whole division has been bad, so if the canucks pick it up, we still have a chance

Once can see the Ducks climbing back and even San Jose who are without their best player right now.

the problems on the Canucks have been evident for a couple of weeks now.

Really sloppy play and now 2 really good teams smarting after being embarrassed on HNIC.

they are a single point ahead of San Jose and 5 ahead of the ducks with both teams having a game in hand and it's hard not to believe that the 2 wildcard teams are going to come from the central this year.
 

brokenhole

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Aug 12, 2015
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The league's attempts to artificially inflate scoring are hilarious. Goalie pads aren't too big, goalies are just way better than they were 10 years ago. The nets aren't too small. 3 on 3 is just as much of a gimmick as the shootout and it's not like you get more than one extra goal.

The league won't admit that obstruction and interference is back and no one is calling it. The amount of picks, interference and holding the Leafs pulled tonight is a pretty damn good example of why scoring is down.
Thats a Babcock coached team, the Redwings played exactly like that. Lots of interference subtle hooks, slashes that go unnoticed by the blind reffs.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
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Vancouver
if i was an owner, there's no way i'd take out two front rows of seats, which i'm guessing is about 750 total seats?? when i have the option of increasing net size or making pads smaller

those seats are literally millions of dollars over the course of a season

pretty much this, slightly larger nets, smaller pads and a floating blue line would help a ton.

Coaches overcoaching and defensive strategies aren't going away sadly.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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"McCann is outplaying Hotvat" :facepalm: did you consider the different levels of competition they are playing against?

That said I think they should move Baertschi and Vrbata from Horvat:

Sedins- Vrbata

Burrows Horvat Hansen

Is how I would build the top 6
 

Tinhorn1

Registered User
Aug 7, 2007
1,109
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Why? Because Horvat has one goal in 15 games, and has been on the ice for more even-strength goals than any other forward....how's that for a start?....worse, he's losing critical faceoffs on the pk and seems to have totally lost his confidence handling the puck...so far at least, McCann has totally outplayed him....not the first time a high draft pick has faltered in his second year, but they should either park him and let him watch or get him to Utica imo.

And replace him with ****ing who? McCann? Because he's going to munch those tough minutes, is he? And when his small amount of confidence disappears and his frail body is shattered playing those heavy minutes, maybe we can get sulky about that too and send him to Junior. Oh wait! How about Crackbell, that plumber who won two face offs last night. How about Sutter? Yes, how about the injured Sutter, the one I was told was useless all summer. I know, how about VEY? We love him, right? Here's another idea. How about for once we don't eat our own young, try to be slightly realistic, and let the young kid playing as our shutdown centre (while also being expected to produce, of course) work out his problems without taking punitive actions like replacing him with players who are going to be worse.
 

Billy Kvcmu

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Dec 5, 2014
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A lot of posters said we should play the kids and live with growing pains. But when kids made mistakes, tons of poster started to say send them back to junior or AHL.
This fan base is laughable sometimes.
 

Drop the Sopel

Registered User
May 4, 2007
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calgary
A lot of posters said we should play the kids and live with growing pains. But when kids made mistakes, tons of poster started to say send them back to junior or AHL.
This fan base is laughable sometimes.

Yeah, we're seeing what a youth movement looks like. It's a lot of mistakes, with some exciting, free wheeling hockey in there too. I for one welcome this style of play - because this team is not going to compete for a cup with their veterans anyway.

The biggest problem right now is Alex Edler. When you have a guy playing 25:00 a night against good players that is struggling badly, you're in big trouble. Really tough to overcome your top players not performing and that's the teams greatest concern right now. If he finds his game again, the Canucks will be back where they want to be IMO.

It's also getting to the point where getting Kenins back up here as soon as he's healthy and reuniting him with Horvat and Hansen is a must. Might not be able to re-create the chemistry from last season, but at this point, the coaching staff is running out of options for getting Horvat on track.

As disappointing as Vrbata has been, he probably needs to go back up with the Sedins. If for no other reason than to get his game where it needs to be to sell him off around the deadline.
 

Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
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West Vancouver
Yeah, we're seeing what a youth movement looks like. It's a lot of mistakes, with some exciting, free wheeling hockey in there too. I for one welcome this style of play - because this team is not going to compete for a cup with their veterans anyway.

The biggest problem right now is Alex Edler. When you have a guy playing 25:00 a night against good players that is struggling badly, you're in big trouble. Really tough to overcome your top players not performing and that's the teams greatest concern right now. If he finds his game again, the Canucks will be back where they want to be IMO.

It's also getting to the point where getting Kenins back up here as soon as he's healthy and reuniting him with Horvat and Hansen is a must. Might not be able to re-create the chemistry from last season, but at this point, the coaching staff is running out of options for getting Horvat on track.

As disappointing as Vrbata has been, he probably needs to go back up with the Sedins. If for no other reason than to get his game where it needs to be to sell him off around the deadline.

Just imagine if Winnipeg is manage by HFboard. Ehlers probably will be in AHL right now.
 

VanillaCoke

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
25,360
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I don't actively want the team to lose but I absolutely don't want to be buyers at the trade deadline.

Vrbata needs to go for a Connolly or gaborik type return.
And I'd trade edler (hamhuis and then re-sign) for somewhere between a Yandle or sekera type deal.
 

Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
27,591
16,074
West Vancouver
@VanCanucks: Sedin-Sedin-Hansen
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
Higgins-McCann-Vrbata
Shinkaruk-Cracknell-Dorsett

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-Weber
Hutton-Bartkowski
Personally, I'll replace Dorsett with Burtows but he's not in the practice.
 
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