TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XI -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[NyQuil]

I think some people were really disappointed that the NK/Walkers were defeated halfway through the final season, in their first and only battle.

Er what?

 

[NyQuil]

Why not take the five minutes if he was so confident that Jon was a nothing opponent?

I mean this isn't a hill I'm going to die on, but at the very least the NK likely didn't see him as easy an out as Theon ended up being.

We didn't see the Night King kill any other isolated people.

I'm not sure why Jon would be some kind of exception.

The only thing really noteworthy about him in the NK's context is that he was a living witness to his earlier invasion and he had a dragon for a little while until he didn't.

There are plenty of other humans running around with Valyrian swords and the NK didn't go after them.

I'm fairly certain he saw Jon as an easy opponent. Who exactly was the NK concerned with? Nobody.

 

[Jussi]

Gravity doesn't kill anyone unless you collide with something.

It sort of does. Either way, you're going to be hit by something.

 

[HanSolo]

I think some people were really disappointed that the NK/Walkers were defeated halfway through the final season, in their first and only battle.

I mean I understand that, but given how the general discourse has gone, really dating back to even season 3, people always find a reason to complain. I can't imagine a situation where the chronology of Night King/Cersei had been reversed and a final showdown against the NK with a huge death count and a more epic end for the NK would immunize the discourse from at least some complaining.

 

[Osprey]

Historically, in reality, that WAS how cavalry was used, though... its physics: cavalry is heavier and faster than infantry (even, presumably, zombie infantry). Send them into a head-on collision, and the guys on horses are usually going to win.

Horses will generally refuse to run into densely packed infantry. The historical effectiveness of cavalry charges was mostly in scattering and panicking enemy infantry. It was a shock tactic that worked on human infantry, but would never work on the dead.

For all that we know, the Dothraki may've hardly thinned their numbers at all because their horses slowed down and stopped or reared up, making them easy targets. In fact, there is one shot (from the peak) that shows their fires slowing down right as they get to the edge of the "shadow" and, then, in the shot showing them being extinguished one by one, the lights aren't getting any smaller, so the charge is already over at that point.

I think it makes sooome sense to try and thin out or break up the Walker charge before it hits the castle as it was clear that there was enough of them to just overwhelm the defenses almost instantly.

It certainly makes sense to thin them out before the battle, but I think that it would've made more sense to use the range units more, especially the dragons. In fact, they could've been sending the dragons out regularly to make strafing runs when the horde was still hours or even days away.

 

[HanSolo]

We didn't see the Night King kill any other isolated people.

I'm not sure why Jon would be some kind of exception.

The only thing really noteworthy about him in the NK's context is that he was a living witness to his earlier invasion.

There are plenty of other humans running around with Valyrian swords and the NK didn't go after them.

Jon was a living witness to Hardhome, and the NK was a living witness to Jon killing a white walker in 1v1 combat. Idk. That's just how I choose to interpret it. I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

[NyQuil]

Jon was a living witness to Hardhome, and the NK was a living witness to Jon killing a white walker in 1v1 combat. Idk. That's just how I choose to interpret it. I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things.

Wasn't Samwell the first person to kill a White Walker?

Insignificant.

Personally, I find the idea that the NK was somehow afraid of Jon in some way and didn't want to fight him a bit silly.

He wasn't afraid of a freaking dragon.

He's going to be afraid of a slightly stocky brooding guy with a sword?

Oh well, different opinions I guess.

 

[bigdirty]

Anyone else notice that Jon and Arya have pretty much the same hair now?

 

[Evincar]

Er what?

Against Westeros. I guess I should have been more specific.

 

[max21]

Put me down as one who was disappointed. Can’t believe we didn’t see the NK or ANY actual white walkers fight. The only time we saw that was the episode Hardhome. So much build up on who the NK was and why he wanted Bran so bad just to see him die instantly like that was very underwhelming IMO. Arya could have atleast made herself a white walker and then killed him before she magically went flying through the air. As a watcher since day 1 I’m definitely upset how that episode went down, sure it’s mainly the battle for the throne but to have the most hyped up villain for almost 9 years die that quick with no explanation is upsetting. Hopefully they can make some light of all this next episode, not to mention literally I hope they make more light in the show. I couldn’t see anything last night even in a pitch black room.

 

[Name Nameless]

So, what was the death count in episode 3? My guesstimate: We had 5000 infantry, 2000 civilians, and 25 more or less main characters.

Of this, 4950 infantry, 1950 civilians, and 5 main characters died?

 

[lostinwarsaw]

so the golden company vs a few unsullied and a few northerners. Plus the dragons. Not looking good. Cersei is the most boring character in the show.

 

[SouthGeorge]

so the golden company vs a few unsullied and a few northerners. Plus the dragons. Not looking good. Cersei is the most boring character in the show.

Lack of elephants are really going to do them in

 

[Emperoreddy]

I mean I understand that, but given how the general discourse has gone, really dating back to even season 3, people always find a reason to complain. I can't imagine a situation where the chronology of Night King/Cersei had been reversed and a final showdown against the NK with a huge death count and a more epic end for the NK would immunize the discourse from at least some complaining.

It wasn’t their first battle though. And what difference does it really make if they waited until episode 5 and the dead won one or two more small battles?

Either one person stabs him in the godswood, or someone stabs him in KL. Either way he is going down in one shot.

People can like it or not, but this wasn’t a left field bullshit choice. They have been laying out the fact that White Walkers are glass cannons since season 2, and that Arya was equipped to deal with them from season 1 (where or training in sword and being stealthy began).

Is it really that much different if Jamie does it outside of fans liking Jamie more (plenty of fans love Arya and were all aboard her getting the kill)

 

[HanSolo]

Wasn't Samwell the first person to kill a White Walker?

Insignificant.

Personally, I find the idea that the NK was somehow afraid of Jon in some way and didn't want to fight him a bit silly.

He wasn't afraid of a freaking dragon.

He's going to be afraid of a slightly stocky brooding guy with a sword?

Oh well, different opinions I guess.

1. The Night King didn't watch Sam kill a white walker and if he somehow knew, he'd know damn well that Sam killing a WW was more of a fluke than anything else.

2. He wasn't afraid of a dragon because he was able to take one down at great range and knew his skin wasn't going to be penetrated by dragon fire, but he must've known a well aimed stab with Valyrian steel could be his demise.

3. Maybe afraid isn't the right word. I never even said afraid, I'm arguing that he at least saw him as a credible threat. When Jon rushed him, he decided to put up an impassable wall of bodies instead of just disarming Jon and killing him. When Theon rushed the Night King he could have easily had the white walkers stop him before he could get close.

Again it's just an interpretation that doesn't really have much bearing on the outcome.

 

[HanSolo]

It wasn’t their first battle though. And what difference does it really make if they waited until episode 5 and the dead won one or two more small battles?

Either one person stabs him in the godswood, or someone stabs him in KL. Either way he is going down in one shot.

People can like it or not, but this wasn’t a left field bull**** choice. They have been laying out the fact that White Walkers are glass cannons since season 2, and that Arya was equipped to deal with them from season 1 (where or training in sword and being stealthy began).

Is it really that much different if Jamie does it outside of fans liking Jamie more (plenty of fans love Arya and were all aboard her getting the kill)

No I don't think it matters. Personally I would've preferred the NK to be the last fight of them all, but I'm not going to let a different outcome damper my experience.

 

[max21]

Is anyone else pissed at the lack of use of the Dire Wolves? , everyone loves ghost but honestly he does nothing. Literally was running into battle and that was it. Last season we saw Arya see her old wolf leading the pack and got everyone hyped for nothing. They could have came out the wood works and fought a white walker polar bear or something.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don’t think it was as much of a fluke as it seems.

I don’t think the White Walkers are really great fighters. They seem to win because their weapons break normal weapons. Once Jon parried one with Longclaw he easily dispatched.

I don’t think he was scared of Jon, but he knew a 1v1 fight was extremely unwise.

Need to consider the NK more a mage class. Really powerful but also squishy. It’s why they all hung back until the battle was essentially won.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Is anyone else pissed at the lack of use of the Dire Wolves? , everyone loves ghost but honestly he does nothing. Literally was running into battle and that was it. Last season we saw Arya see her old wolf leading the pack and got everyone hyped for nothing. They could have came out the wood works and fought a white walker polar bear or something.

They said a while ago the budget doesn’t allow it since they would need to use C.G. wolves to use them more and that money and time went towards the dragons.

 

[Emperoreddy]

No I don't think it matters. Personally I would've preferred the NK to be the last fight of them all, but I'm not going to let a different outcome damper my experience.

I want to see where it goes from here. Was their a big reason, or are the final episodes a play on the hero’s homecoming trope?

 

[max21]

They said a while ago the budget doesn’t allow it since they would need to use C.G. wolves to use them more and that money and time went towards the dragons.

Yes I know that but why even show Ghost this season then? What’s the point?

 

[HanSolo]

Is anyone else pissed at the lack of use of the Dire Wolves? , everyone loves ghost but honestly he does nothing. Literally was running into battle and that was it. Last season we saw Arya see her old wolf leading the pack and got everyone hyped for nothing. They could have came out the wood works and fought a white walker polar bear or something.

Personally, knowing what CGI cost it is just to have them standing in a scene, I let go of hope of Direwolf badassery a long long time ago. If that's what it takes to have fully realized dragons, I can live with it.

 

[Evincar]

I mean I understand that, but given how the general discourse has gone, really dating back to even season 3, people always find a reason to complain. I can't imagine a situation where the chronology of Night King/Cersei had been reversed and a final showdown against the NK with a huge death count and a more epic end for the NK would immunize the discourse from at least some complaining.

I do feel it would still be better received. The White Walkers imo were a big draw for the show. They were the first threat we see, and its been slowly building up for 8 seasons. The tension is also going to be much higher late in the season.

What tension are we going to have with Cersei? Blow up Kings Landing and Dany/Jon's forces with wildfire? We have seen it already and we expect it. Kill a dragon with the Scorpion?

I honestly dont care who sits on the Iron Throne.

I really hope there is one last twist in these final three episodes.

 

[HanSolo]

I want to see where it goes from here. Was their a big reason, or are the final episodes a play on the hero’s homecoming trope?

Yeah, for me that's gonna make or break the season. I'm in agreement with people who say the early seasons are the best (though find it odd that season 4 is excluded from that calculus).

So far, from a personal perspective, keeping in mind the budgetary constraints I enjoyed the last two seasons. I didn't love them as much as 1,2, and 4, but I liked them a great deal more than season 5 and about as much as 3. And I've really enjoyed this season so far. But if the back half of the season is just a feel good trouncing of Cersei with Dany and Jon uniting in marriage to take the Throne, I'd be disappointed.

I do feel it would still be better received. The White Walkers imo were a big draw for the show. They were the first threat we see, and its been slowly building up for 8 seasons. The tension is also going to be much higher late in the season.

What tension are we going to have with Cersei? Blow up Kings Landing and Dany/Jon's forces with wildfire? We have seen it already and we expect it. Kill a dragon with the Scorpion?

I honestly dont care who sits on the Iron Throne.

I really hope there is one last twist in these final three episodes.

Well I just got done saying I'm with you there. I don't even mind Jon and/or Dany taking the Throne as long as its done well. I'm willing to give this show the benefit of the doubt that because the Night King died so quickly, that means there's still some heavy stuff ahead. I could be wrong but I hope I'm not.

I don’t think it was as much of a fluke as it seems.

I don’t think the White Walkers are really great fighters. They seem to win because their weapons break normal weapons. Once Jon parried one with Longclaw he easily dispatched.

I don’t think he was scared of Jon, but he knew a 1v1 fight was extremely unwise.

Need to consider the NK more a mage class. Really powerful but also squishy. It’s why they all hung back until the battle was essentially won.

This is also true. Additionally, the army of the dead's greatest strength is sheer numbers. The wights aren't particularly adept fighters on their own.

 

[Evincar]

Yes I know that but why even show Ghost this season then? What’s the point?

Im more disappointed that the White Walkers just stood around. It would have been much better and scarier if Arya ran into a Walker in the castle and thats what she was running from.