TV: Game of Thrones | Season 7 | Part VIII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[Gene Parmesan]

This thread seasons 1-4: A bunch of book readers posting spoilers disguised as 'speculation'
This thread seasons 5-7: A bunch of book readers whining about all the different ways D&D are ruining their precious source material

In hindsight this discussion was never good.

And refusing to acknowledge GRRM's involvement in the show. Can't dare criticize the real life Sam Tarly.

 

[Blender]

And refusing to acknowledge GRRM's involvement in the show. Can't dare criticize the real life Sam Tarly.

Or his failures in the source material the lead to some of the mess the show got itself into. Especially season 5.

 

[izlez]

This. Benjen shows up to save Jon because Bran told him to, just like the previous 3ER sent Benjen to save Bran when he escaped with Meera. It makes perfect sense, this is a correct use of a plot device.

People will critcize anything without thinking first.

Did this explicitly happen, or is this an assumption on your part to make it make sense?


(I never remember stuff on this show. I'm going to really enjoy a rewatch when I get around to it)

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I think it's a valid criticism to say that the show has relied upon too many last minute saves as of late, and Benjen represented the second one deployed for Jon in a single episode. I would have had no problem if he just pulled Jon from the ice and aided his escape using stealth and/or the post-battle chaos. The last minute save, especially without any set-up as to why it happened that way, has become repetitive and has lost its impact.

Yes, they've saved major characters from certain death a few times now. This was the last time they could play the Benjen card, so at least it will have to be something else to save Jon the next time he's about to die. It is losing its impact but let's face it. None of us expected Jon to die in the last episode. He's too important to the overall plot and he can't die before knowing his true parentage.

I see that as a way for Jon to be heroic in front of Dany and to get rid of Benjen at the same time.

 

[Player big P]

Super Jorah looks like a new man healed from his Greyscale. Thoros would have gotten lost. Beric has one eye, The Hound would have stopped and roasted Ptarmigan. Gendry was the only choice.

One of the best parts of the episode was during the wight ambush, like everybody got an onscreen individual kill, Jorah just immediately gets disarmed and strangled

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Did this explicitly happen, or is this an assumption on your part to make it make sense?


(I never remember stuff on this show. I'm going to really enjoy a rewatch when I get around to it)

Benjen himself said it.

 

[Blender]

One of the best parts of the episode was during the wight ambush, like everybody got an onscreen individual kill, Jorah just immediately gets disarmed and strangled

Yea but earlier he killed a giant flaming bear with a dagger, and he had a lot of kills at the lake.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The story has to end at some point. The depth is still there. Its just not the fan fiction that the hardcores want.

I am one of the biggest critics of the show at its current stage and I don't fit into that characterization at all.

As far as the depth, I don't see where you get that from. The set ups are being reduced for time and there are more "payoff" moments that provide bombastic entertainment. From a popcorn eating perspective that is a fun combination. But as someone who enjoys pieces of media and art and still puts a critical eye on them, I don't like it as much and wish we could still have the setting up and right combination we had previously.

And I am not putting all the praise on GRRM and all the criticism on D&D, either.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Or his failures in the source material the lead to some of the mess the show got itself into. Especially season 5.

do you mind PMing me and letting me know (since that's a book discussion).

 

[Make]

I was a bit disappointed with how the lake battle was filmed and "designed". This was kind of unexpected considering the show usually does these very well. I did a mental facepalm with the whole "wights can't catch them because the ice broke!"-setup. The whole throwing a rock to accidentally inform the wights that it's ok to cross felt kind of stupid too. You'd expect the NK to know a thing or two about ice on his own. A bit too convenient how all the main characters miraculously survived being swarmed by wights when the extras got ripped to pieces in seconds. It was also really difficult to see who was doing what. Of course it was all overshadowed by the inevitable last moment rescue. A bit of a boring battle, but it had been building towards that for a while, because the whole idea was silly from the start, and everyone assumed they would be rescued somehow. The only suspence was about who of the Mag7 might die, and when Gendry was sent off, it kind of spoiled the mystery of his hammer that we saw in the preview. Jon not jumping on Drogon and fake "drowning" was another force fed cliffhanger that wasn't needed.

Sorry for the venting, but it feels like there are increasingly these kind of lazy and sloppy moments that could be handled a lot better. It's a bit strange that they have to resort to these cliches so often. Do we really need so many cliffhanger near-deaths?

The snow bear biting Thoros looked kind of comical too. And the javelin throw, though "magic" is involved with that.

One thing that struck me is how much the NK does look like a twisted older version of Bran. Got me thinking about the "Bran is NK"-theories again. Don't know, could be just a coincidence, and it sounds kind of ridiculous, but the similarities are there.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I am one of the biggest critics of the show at its current stage and I don't fit into that characterization at all.

As far as the depth, I don't see where you get that from. The set ups are being reduced for time and there are more "payoff" moments that provide bombastic entertainment. From a popcorn eating perspective that is a fun combination. But as someone who enjoys pieces of media and art and still puts a critical eye on them, I don't like it as much and wish we could still have the setting up and right combination we had previously.

And I am not putting all the praise on GRRM and all the criticism on D&D, either.

This is well said. I'm not "upset" (only talking about the last 2 episodes for me personally) because my guy isn't winning or whatever but because it feels like the payoffs haven't been earned and have been cheap and less enjoyable.

 

[Miamipuck]

This is well said. I'm not "upset" (only talking about the last 2 episodes for me personally) because my guy isn't winning or whatever but because it feels like the payoffs haven't been earned and have been cheap and less enjoyable.

I can agree with the last episode. I think they cheapened the payoffs a bit.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think it's a valid criticism to say that the show has relied upon too many last minute saves as of late, and Benjen represented the second one deployed for Jon in a single episode. I would have had no problem if he just pulled Jon from the ice and aided his escape using stealth and/or the post-battle chaos. The last minute save, especially without any set-up as to why it happened that way, has become repetitive and has lost its impact.

But it isn't a Deus Ex Machina. It is valid though. I thought two just in time saves in that episode was far too much, but it is still different from DEM.

I really like writing tropes so it bugs me when people use them wrong.

 

[Saskatoon]

Jon not jumping on Drogon and fake "drowning" was another force fed cliffhanger that wasn't needed.

I had my issues with the episode but it wasn't really a cliffhanger. They could have ended the episode with Jon stuck under ice (i.e Jamie a few episodes earlier) or when he got on Benjen's horse seemingly freezing to death but they resolved those situations for Jon really quickly.

I actually was very confused why they did the whole Jon left behind thing since they didn't use it to set up a cliffhanger. Is Benjen really an important enough character that he needs to have arguably the star of the show get left behind to resolve his arc?

 

[Emperoreddy]

do you mind PMing me and letting me know (since that's a book discussion).

You can peak in the book thread and ask. There aren't any future spoilers for the show in there if you are worried.

Honestly we usually just argue about Stannis and Dorne in there.

A show only bit is the problems caused by keeping Dany in Essos and sending main characters on long training arcs like Bran and Arya. It gets more complicated but that is book talk at that point.

 

[Player big P]

I had my issues with the episode but it wasn't really a cliffhanger. They could have ended the episode with Jon stuck under ice (i.e Jamie a few episodes earlier) or when he got on Benjen's horse seemingly freezing to death but they resolved those situations for Jon really quickly.

I actually was very confused why they did the whole Jon left behind thing since they didn't use it to set up a cliffhanger. Is Benjen really an important enough character that he needs to have arguably the star of the show get left behind to resolve his arc?

I'd imagine it was just because Jon's been looking/hoping for Benjen's return for six seasons now and this was a "Oh hey by the way I'm fine, jk dead, cya, stop worrying now" thing. Just guessing.

 

[Miamipuck]

I had my issues with the episode but it wasn't really a cliffhanger. They could have ended the episode with Jon stuck under ice (i.e Jamie a few episodes earlier) or when he got on Benjen's horse seemingly freezing to death but they resolved those situations for Jon really quickly.

I actually was very confused why they did the whole Jon left behind thing since they didn't use it to set up a cliffhanger. Is Benjen really an important enough character that he needs to have arguably the star of the show get left behind to resolve his arc?

No, they could have offed him a different way, like if/when the NK gets by the wall. There was no need for that stupid rescue. That was one too many. We all know Jon was a "jump on a grenade guy"D&D words not mine, we don't need be beat over the head with a hammer to know he's brave.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Game of Thrones on AMC would of ended with Jon in the water and they would make a hashtag out of it.

 

[Miamipuck]

You can peak in the book thread and ask. There aren't any future spoilers for the show in there if you are worried.

Honestly we usually just argue about Stannis and Dorne in there.

A show only bit is the problems caused by keeping Dany in Essos and sending main characters on long training arcs like Bran and Arya. It gets more complicated but that is book talk at that point.

If you're lucky you can even get a poster or two to profess their love of Stannis.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Did this explicitly happen, or is this an assumption on your part to make it make sense?


(I never remember stuff on this show. I'm going to really enjoy a rewatch when I get around to it)

You never remember stuff on the show yet you come in here and complain about stuff on the show because you can't remember the stuff on the show.

lol

 

[Frank the Tank]

I am one of the biggest critics of the show at its current stage and I don't fit into that characterization at all.

As far as the depth, I don't see where you get that from. The set ups are being reduced for time and there are more "payoff" moments that provide bombastic entertainment. From a popcorn eating perspective that is a fun combination. But as someone who enjoys pieces of media and art and still puts a critical eye on them, I don't like it as much and wish we could still have the setting up and right combination we had previously.

And I am not putting all the praise on GRRM and all the criticism on D&D, either.

I agree. Few are saying GRRM is above criticism. He's also not the reason why D&D decided to compress this season into 7 episodes, which has disrupted the storytelling and forced them to jump from big moment to big moment with inadequate build-up.

 

[Make]

I had my issues with the episode but it wasn't really a cliffhanger. They could have ended the episode with Jon stuck under ice (i.e Jamie a few episodes earlier) or when he got on Benjen's horse seemingly freezing to death but they resolved those situations for Jon really quickly.

I actually was very confused why they did the whole Jon left behind thing since they didn't use it to set up a cliffhanger. Is Benjen really an important enough character that he needs to have arguably the star of the show get left behind to resolve his arc?

Yeah, a poor choice of words, but the point was indeed that it was an unnecessary near-death scene just to get Benjen to show up. Not to mention that it made Jon look like a dolt again, when everyone was begging him to GTFO when they had the chance. I just wish they'd stop force feeding us these supposedly life threatening scenarios that obviously won't result in a character's death (Jaime & Jon). Sometimes the simple way out is better.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I get why they did it. They wanted to resolve and close up the Benjen character. It wasn't done as well as it could be but I get it

 

[Blender]

I had my issues with the episode but it wasn't really a cliffhanger. They could have ended the episode with Jon stuck under ice (i.e Jamie a few episodes earlier) or when he got on Benjen's horse seemingly freezing to death but they resolved those situations for Jon really quickly.

I actually was very confused why they did the whole Jon left behind thing since they didn't use it to set up a cliffhanger. Is Benjen really an important enough character that he needs to have arguably the star of the show get left behind to resolve his arc?

I'll repeat that I didn't like the Benjen save just for clarity, but Jon being left for dead isn't really for Jon, it's to further his impact on others. There is already talk like he's an immortal warrior and a lot of wildlings think he's actually some sort of god. Now Daenerys and her people have seen him essentially survive an impossible situation and it adds to his growing legend. The scene is also about the relationship between Jon and Daenerys, that she sees Jon risk his life just to buy them time, and the impact of his loss on her. She looks devastated when he 'dies' and amazed when he returns.

Not the best episode in the series by far, and there were definitely things in there I didn't like, but it also had a lot of really good things.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Yeah, a poor choice of words, but the point was indeed that it was an unnecessary near-death scene just to get Benjen to show up. Not to mention that it made Jon look like a dolt again, when everyone was begging him to GTFO when they had the chance. I just wish they'd stop force feeding us these supposedly life threatening scenarios that obviously won't result in a character's death (Jaime & Jon). Sometimes the simple way out is better.

I actually thought Jon was trying to impress Dany by showing what a warrior he was, especially after the dragon went down. It didn't really bother me.