Post-Game Talk: | Game #III | Pens vs Habs | OTL | Whole lotta yuck

[Darren McCord]

I don't like Archibald's tendency to chase hits instead of picking his spots, but even I'll admit he's not been a huge problem the first three games. I'd bench McGinn over him 100% of the time as it stands. Poehling has been fine, but neither TB nor Poehling are really the long term 4C answer if we want to get back to the old Sullivan model (which is itself a question that should be answered).

That doesn't mean there aren't worrying things about Archibald's game per se, just that the 4th has a bit of an identity crisis at the moment. It's not defensive enough to be relied upon for lots of shutdown minutes. It's not really offensive enough to make other teams worry about defending it. It's not really physical enough to keep people's heads on swivels. It's a step in the right direction, but it's not really clicking yet, and I don't think people should get too weird about that.


I like that we're trying to make it suck less than previous seasons, but I sure hope they don't just go "eh" and leave it as is because TB's a homegrown talent and we spent money for McGinn and Archibald.

I am confused why you are lumping TB and Poehling together. What is wrong with TB as the 4th line center?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd just like this to be the year that our 3rd string goalie doesn't have to start in the playoffs. That'd be swell.

*Monkey paw curls*

CDS retires to pursue his passion for bookbinding, making Dustin Tokarski our 2nd stringer.

 

[Darren McCord]

The issue is the 4th line has no identity and cohesion.

Archibald is running around looking for hits.
Poehling is kind of just there outside random rushes to the net.
McGinn is looking to make plays.

The are playing different styles on the same line.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

People that are saying archbold can't play. Hockey obviously aren't watching the same game I am.

I've been specifically keeping an eye on him in the short minutes per game because people were so against him being here.

So far he is playing extremely well positioning sound. Please show me an example of where he hasn't been. He has laid some pretty aggressive hits out there. Just last night he hit Weidman pretty hard dude. Had his head on a swivel the rest of the game.

He's making these hits while covering his position. If you complaining about a guy that's getting 10 minutes a night that has 13 hits with six shots on goal. Obviously the issues with you

 

[HandshakeLine]

I am confused why you are lumping TB and Poehling together. What is wrong with TB as the 4th line center?

He's fine, nothing special. He's also not quite defensively sound enough to be a shutdown center, nor is he as offensively gifted as Cullen was. I don't think he's a problem, he's just overpaid and overrated, and very vanilla.

The question is, do we want a vanilla 4th line that plays 10-12 minutes a night ES or do we want something with more of an identity that either serves a more definite purpose or we can lean on for more minutes a night and reduce workload elsewhere?

----- Archibald still won't come to my birthday party even after I said nice things about him on the internet to defend his honor.

 

[Pancakes]

People that are saying archbold can't play. Hockey obviously aren't watching the same game I am.

I've been specifically keeping an eye on him in the short minutes per game because people were so against him being here.

So far he is playing extremely well positioning sound. Please show me an example of where he hasn't been. He has laid some pretty aggressive hits out there. Just last night he hit Weidman pretty hard dude. Had his head on a swivel the rest of the game.

He's making these hits while covering his position. If you complaining about a guy that's getting 10 minutes a night that has 13 hits with six shots on goal. Obviously the issues with you

I mainly hate his game with the puck. Someone mentioned earlier that he just flings pucks at the net from bad angles because he can't hold onto the puck and they were spot on with that assessment.

I don't mind him positionally and I like the hitting but he needs to bring something offensively to make that line at least occasionally a threat to score.

In fairness, McGinn and Poehling haven't looked all that threatening offensively either.

 

[Darren McCord]

He's fine, nothing special. He's also not quite defensively sound enough to be a shutdown center, nor is he as offensively gifted as Cullen was. I don't think he's a problem, he's just overpaid and overrated, and very vanilla.

The question is, do we want a vanilla 4th line that plays 10-12 minutes a night ES or do we want something with more of an identity that either serves a more definite purpose or we can lean on for more minutes a night and reduce workload elsewhere?

----- Archibald still won't come to my birthday party even after I said nice things about him on the internet to defend his honor.

He might be a bit Vanilla but he isnt overpaid. As a 4th line player he has 50pts in his last 104 games and makes 2mil. You can call him Vanilla but he isnt overpaid for what he does. He also is a very excellent pker. If you gave him less vanilla wingers there would be no problem.

 

[SomeDude]

*Monkey paw curls*

CDS retires to pursue his passion for bookbinding, making Dustin Tokarski our 2nd stringer.

If any game could convince him to hang them up, it was last night.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mainly hate his game with the puck. Someone mentioned earlier that he just flings pucks at the net from bad angles because he can't hold onto the puck and they were spot on with that assessment.

I don't mind him positionally and I like the hitting but he needs to bring something offensively to make that line at least occasionally a threat to score.

In fairness, McGinn and Poehling haven't looked all that threatening offensively either.

I'd have liked to see a more solid defensive presence there to cover for Archibald if he's going to be that line's hitter/heat-guided missile. But I agree that it's a line which is kind of every which way but no real identity.

Maybe it'll gel after a few weeks? Maybe it won't.

 

[Gurglesons]

People that are saying archbold can't play. Hockey obviously aren't watching the same game I am.

I've been specifically keeping an eye on him in the short minutes per game because people were so against him being here.

So far he is playing extremely well positioning sound. Please show me an example of where he hasn't been. He has laid some pretty aggressive hits out there. Just last night he hit Weidman pretty hard dude. Had his head on a swivel the rest of the game.

He's making these hits while covering his position. If you complaining about a guy that's getting 10 minutes a night that has 13 hits with six shots on goal. Obviously the issues with you

That play threw him out of position and he is always out of position.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I mainly hate his game with the puck. Someone mentioned earlier that he just flings pucks at the net from bad angles because he can't hold onto the puck and they were spot on with that assessment.

I don't mind him positionally and I like the hitting but he needs to bring something offensively to make that line at least occasionally a threat to score.

In fairness, McGinn and Poehling haven't looked all that threatening offensively either.

They have all had their flaws offensively That's why they're on l4. You're not going to find too many scoring threat line fours in the NHL. There's a salary cap.

I liked Poehlings drive to the net last night

Not sure whats up with Brock right now but yes he needs to be better

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

f*** Patty Kane.

I think the goal was to get tougher on the 4th, with guys like Dragula and Archibald. It's just that we didn't go after the really good physical guys, we went after the bargain bin store brand ones and it shows.

McGinn on the other hand feels like a sunk cost fallacy. I just don't really see what he's bringing to the 4th that justifies his price point and the bottom 6 is definitely an area where we can save some cap space and put it towards someone more effective.

McGinn's one of those players that's just *there*. He's generally not a bad player, per se (though he was shit last night), but he also doesn't really do anything that elevates a team, either.

So the problem is his salary. Why are we paying him what we are when he's giving the kind of performance you can typically get from someone making $1 million or less?

 

[HandshakeLine]

He might be a bit Vanilla but he isnt overpaid. As a 4th line player he has 50pts in his last 104 games and makes 2mil. You can call him Vanilla but he isnt overpaid for what he does. He also is a very excellent pker. If you gave him less vanilla wingers there would be no problem.

We shouldn't be paying market value for a 4th line that we can't trust for larger TOI though. Same with McGinn. He's being paid fair market value, but it's a real question if we should be paying 2. 75 per year for a guy that we can't use to his fullest.

I would rather us have a more defined 4th line that has a more solid identity. You want hitting? Get another hitter or a pest on the LW and let TB cover the defense. You want offense? Get a stronger 4RW and focus on offense.

I just think this combination of players there now doesn't play to the strengths or hide the weaknesses of the line. We're getting away with it so far, but that doesn't mean it's not something to address.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

That play threw him out of position and he is always out of position.

Go find some video and show me where he was out of position on that play. His positioning has been fine it. As I said before, that line has not let up a goal yet.

So those 13 chances that he made a hit. None of them have led to any issues so far.

 

[edog37]

i wouldn't trust CDS to put a cap on a water bottle

100%. last 5 minutes of the third period & OT tell the tale on why he belongs in the AHL at best.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm no season ticket holder but I do believe we don't award goals to the other team just by merely being out of position.

 

[edog37]

Because lost points in October f***ing count and that game is f***ing inexcitable. Just f***ing pathetic all around.

and given the fact the team decided to go stupid & sign the old gang, these early season points mean a lot more than they normally would. Anyone who doesn't think this roster will gas out come late March/April & that they better bank points now is kidding themselves.

 

[Gurglesons]

Go find some video and show me where he was out of position on that play. His positioning has been fine it. As I said before, that line has not let up a goal yet.

So those 13 chances that he made a hit. None of them have led to any issues so far.

Okay? It's still reducing the effectiveness of the line. This is the same issue with POJ and Rutta. They may look good "analytically" right now, but anyone watching the game notices that they can't get the puck out of the defensive zone and when it's doubled down with L4 it's a huge issue. It hasn't resulted in goals against yet, but it will.

 

[Andy99]

*Monkey paw curls*

CDS retires to pursue his passion for bookbinding, making Dustin Tokarski our 2nd stringer.

I believe his passion is golf frisbee, at least I remember an article along these lines lol

 

[HandshakeLine]

I believe his passion is golf frisbee, at least I remember an article along these lines lol

Sicko. Absolute perversion.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I mean, the obvious solution is to try to find a newer version of Cullen that can handle those minutes, not playing the 4th line more to play less.

I'm not sure who in this league I would characterize as a "New Cullen". Such a person would call for ~$4M

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not sure who in this league I would characterize as a "New Cullen". Such a person would call for ~$4M

And a 4C of that caliber would be worth it and easily affordable by jettisoning McGinn.

I mean, it's mostly a hypothetical thought experiment, I have no one particularly in mind right now, just thinking out loud. I just don't think the coaching staff feels very secure in our 4th line as it stands which is a problem-- we need a 4th line to eat minutes more than we did during the B2B era because Sid, Geno, and Carter are old and need those breaks.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This team erroneously continues to think for some reason that Jeff Carter is this defensive stalwart and it helped create yet another goal against last night. This guy has the most value these days when he's doing one thing... shooting the puck. Keep it simple with Carter. Stop being so cute. Overall didn't have a huge problem with L3, though. I thought Kap and Heinen looked good.

Letang was bad Letang in this one.

Overall hard to get worked up. I think the Habs are going to surprise a few teams this year. They're young and scrappy with some good talent. And MSL has them all pulling the right direction.

 

[reino]

Evgeni Malkin on his second goal:

“When he turned, spin, I talked to myself like, ‘Give me, Rusty.’ … We talked after goal at bench, and he says, ‘I saw you.’ I’m not surprised. Rusty every year is better and better. He’s a really good player.”

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This team erroneously continues to think for some reason that Jeff Carter is this defensive stalwart and it helped create yet another goal against last night. This guy has the most value these days when he's doing one thing... shooting the puck. Keep it simple with Carter. Stop being so cute. Overall didn't have a huge problem with L3, though. I thought Kap and Heinen looked good.

Letang was bad Letang in this one.

Overall hard to get worked up. I think the Habs are going to surprise a few teams this year. They're young and scrappy with some good talent. And MSL has them all pulling the right direction.

Yes to all of this. The fly in the oinment is that Jeff Carter is written in stone at Center. That line is gonna be leaky unless you have a really good 2 way F to cover for Carter's lack of footspeed.

You kinda wish that Heinen could play center and that would kick Carter to wing.