GDT: Game 8: Carolina @ Toronto - The Laughing Dead

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I totally forgot Lindholm was on this team until right now. I was perusing NHL rookie stats and saw his name, and was like "oh yeah, we have him."

 

[Novacane]

So many GDT haterz.

 

[Skydog]

This forum goes all the way back to like 2006, its sad to look and see names that no longer post here even though I'm a board pup.

Edit: 2003! wow..

It goes back even further than that, they did an overhaul in 2002 and everyone had to register again.

 

[Lazyking]

It goes back even further than that, they did an overhaul in 2002 and everyone had to register again.

There was this wrestling forum I used to go to where like every two years they had to reset the board and it has way less amount of traffic as this site does.

 

[DaveG]

It goes back even further than that, they did an overhaul in 2002 and everyone had to register again.

Truth. I mostly lurked back pre-02 as WVUCaniac, but didn't post that much until I re-upped with this account again in 03.

Looking back I had some horribly bad opinions when I was younger

 

[daikan]

Truth. I mostly lurked back pre-02 as WVUCaniac, but didn't post that much until I re-upped with this account again in 03.

Looking back I had some horribly bad opinions when I was younger

that's one of the things I like so much about our defensive depth right now. I REALLY had a hard time deciding between Hagemo, Vojta, Borer and Carson as to who should be ranked higher. All of them look like they should become good NHLers, so I just ended up ranking the older guys higher.

Not that I was any better—I predicted Trevor Letowski to have a 40-point season. #facepalm

 

[DaveG]

I still think Hagemo and Borer would have turned out rather nicely if not for the injuries that derailed them to be honest. Hagemo was an extremely solid defender at Minnesota before his (shoulder?) injury derailed him, and then he hit the drugs. Harrison is the closest to a Borer comparison that we've had in a while, but Jay's significantly better offensively. Just a good cerebral defenseman that wasn't physically exceptional in any way but just made the smart plays in college and the AHL. Once his knee injury happened his skating went from passable to detrimental and that was that.

Vojta was **** though, and Carson's your typical Quad-A player.

 

[Roboturner913]

I don't remember thing one about Hagemo but I did like Borer. That poor SOB had a serious run of bad luck. Last I checked on him he was putting up some pretty serious numbers in the DEL.

 

[DaveG]

A lot of people, myself included, considered Hagemo to be the 3rd best American dman in the draft in 05. That's including ahead of Lashoff and Niskanen, both of whom were first rounders that year, and we plucked him in the late 2nd. He just never panned out due to his injuries and the off-ice stuff.

I really don't think I've ever seen a prospect with worse luck then Borer though.

 

[GhostofS16*]

Jordan is snake bit. It is only a matter of time.

The eyeball test the past 50+ games says otherwise.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The eyeball test the past 50+ games says otherwise.

Entirely dependent upon the owner of said eyeballs.

--hank

 

[Vagrant]

How is Jiri Tlusty avoiding all criticism? The guy has been Teflon Don around here despite being pointless in 8 games. Ouch. For a guy that was supposed to bring first line offense this year he certainly has had a tough start. He started cold last year too, but this is frozen.

 

[AD Skinner]

I guess because Semin and E Staal have been pretty subdued themselves, and Tlusty never really was supposed to be bringing much to the table on his own. Fair or not, Semin and Staal are the ones who are going to draw all of that criticism.

 

[Ole Gil]

How is Jiri Tlusty avoiding all criticism? The guy has been Teflon Don around here despite being pointless in 8 games. Ouch. For a guy that was supposed to bring first line offense this year he certainly has had a tough start. He started cold last year too, but this is frozen.

The crappy training camp has me giving some leeway to Semin, Tlusty, Ruutu, and Lindholm. Another set of 8 games, and I'll be ready to throw them under the bus.

 

[Vagrant]

The crappy training camp has me giving some leeway to Semin, Tlusty, Ruutu, and Lindholm. Another set of 8 games, and I'll be ready to throw them under the bus.

Oh, I am certainly not advocating throwing anyone under the bus but it's pretty strange how certain players get a lot of heat while other players avoid it. Tlusty and Semin being given relatively free passes despite being less productive than Eric by a significant margin. Skinner became a pretty big target last year and his critics aren't as vocal right now as they were in the offseason because he's being productive.

Jordan and Eric are getting a hefty amount of criticism. Cam Ward is getting a huge amount too. Gleason is already on the hit list despite being concussed. Ruutu is a problem.... I just don't understand the rhyme or reason.

 

[Ole Gil]

People want to dislike Eric, Gleason, Jordan, Ruutu, Skinner, and Ward, because their failings support opinions that they've said over and over?

Nobody has said much bad about Semin and Tlusty in the past, so their failures now aren't anything to celebrate.

Ward on the other hand, people get a tingling sensation in the nether regions every time he gives up a goal, because they can say "SEE!! I TOLD YOU HE WAS MEDIOCRE AND OVERPAID!!!"

Looking at McBain as an example, he was on a steady decline after year 2, but everybody was so positively invested in him, that he had to drive over the cliff and crash in a spectacular fireball before people started to say he was bad. And they still wanted a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

This is my theory, anyways.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I've avoided commenting on Tlusty and Semin because, in the past , there have been certain advocates for both that can't be argued with, though Tlusty falling to Earth may have brought some more reasonable opinions to the front.

 

[Vagrant]

I personally feel like the common theme with the players who get the most heat are the players that the organization values more than the fans here do. The organization values Eric Staal as a franchise player, and rightly so by his production, but there is still animosity towards him. The best player on our team is not evaluated by the measure of what he gives, but by the measure of what he leaves on the table. The organization will never own his personal failings, so the board overcompensates. Chad Larose got a lot of the same heat. He was viewed as basically indispensable by the Hurricanes in his mid to late 20's, and that frustration became palpable. I don't think we have to relive that story. That show of support from the front office made it to where even in his success as a player, his failures were underscored.

Jordan Staal. We were sold Jordan Staal by the front office. The fans never sold him to Carolina. He was presented to us. And at the price he came, expectations came with it.

That's what makes his situation a lot different from Semin. We, collectively, sold Semin to the Hurricanes. Via our support. Via the results that were created. We facilitated that act of faith by Rutherford to trust that he wouldn't turn into a pumpkin. And as a result, in order to avoid the hypocrisy of praising a contract and hating it a mere six months later, words of criticism are tempered with the memory of thinking, "I bet JR finds a way to screw this up and we lose him". We have a vested interest not to be hypocritical with Semin by the effusive praise we heaped upon him at the outset of his Hurricanes career that we NEVER gave to Jordan Staal and as such can contend that we never wanted him to start with or that we didn't want him at X price. It's a no lose proposition to claim revisionist history and to move the goalposts.

Basically, there are a LOT of people that are looking for reasons to hate this front office and the players it loves. The players that it invested into. Gleason, Larose, Ruutu, Ward, Skinner.... the guys that the organization put their ass on the line for. When they flash failure, we get to celebrate the incompetency of the decision. When they have success, we get to dismiss it as Carolina falling ass backwards into luck. Ray Whitney was a fine example. People were dead set against giving him the contract he wanted at the time he wanted it and then less than a year later brought up his production as a means to prove the incompetence of the front office. Same happened with Cole in his monster season with the Habs. Stupid JR gets beat by $500k on a player that we needed. Those chirps went quiet after his unceremonious exit from Montreal.

I would dare say that even Larose. Chad Larose of all people, went to another team and posted 30-40 points there would be people here criticizing the front office for not having given him the chance to do it here who would have cancelled their season tickets had it been us to make the move.

At some point for some, the desire to prove the front office incompetent supersedes the best interest of the team. Where being right about a player, proving the organization wrong, is the end to which we aspire.

I have always found this board surprisingly malleable in regards to opinions on players and group think. I just wish that more people would own the crap they spew in down times in up times.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm fine with the moves we've made overall, but I don't think the team is good enough to go far as built.

Semin looks like refried dog poo most games so far this season. He and jstaals nonexistent offensive game have me the most concerned. Semin looks like the guy caps fans warned us about. He's still good overall for us, as the skill level is needed. I just look at old highlight clips if him and he seems so much slower and with less puck control. He's too young to be falling off. He doesn't beat guys one on one, he doesn't take the puck to the net like he used to. He floats around hoping for loose pucks and tries to put himself in position to take the same snap shot over and over again. He looks off balance. Maybe he has lost his confidence carrying the puck. I know he still looks amazing at times, but he seems like a pale comparison of the semin of 5 years ago. Hopefully he's fighting a groin strain or something like that and it's all fine. I've kinda felt this way about him throughout his times with the canes, to be honest. I'm still glad we have him, though. If others can take the heat off the first line long enough for them to find a groove they could crush the second half.

 

[Lazyking]

The Canes really haven't been good enough since their cup run.. everything has to go right, we're not exactly drafting that well sans a few so the failures are magnified. We're not in a position to fail. Good fan support is important but it only lasts so long, and the losing becomes too much.

 

[rocky7]

I'm fine with the moves we've made overall, but I don't think the team is good enough to go far as built.

Semin looks like refried dog poo most games so far this season. He and jstaals nonexistent offensive game have me the most concerned. Semin looks like the guy caps fans warned us about. He's still good overall for us, as the skill level is needed. I just look at old highlight clips if him and he seems so much slower and with less puck control. He's too young to be falling off. He doesn't beat guys one on one, he doesn't take the puck to the net like he used to. He floats around hoping for loose pucks and tries to put himself in position to take the same snap shot over and over again. He looks off balance. Maybe he has lost his confidence carrying the puck. I know he still looks amazing at times, but he seems like a pale comparison of the semin of 5 years ago. Hopefully he's fighting a groin strain or something like that and it's all fine. I've kinda felt this way about him throughout his times with the canes, to be honest. I'm still glad we have him, though. If others can take the heat off the first line long enough for them to find a groove they could crush the second half.

I'm not much into excuses especially if we don't know what the conditions are but I think Semin *is* playing through injury. that said however, they don't need to be paying guys $7 million a year to play the game Muller has chalked out. tremendous trade potential at the deadline there. and, for that kind of coin they could buy 4 players better suited. as for Jordan, we all know his contract wasn't based solely on his hockey skills, be they offensive or defensive. that's alot of $ for what he brings/has brought alone.

 

[Elsker]

I'm observing a lot of conversation and easy smiles between Eric and Alex this season that has me encouraged that they will each eventually find their way through their individual funks and meld into one of those formidable skill pairings that make top lines and first PP units deadly successful.

Third piece for that line is complementary and interchangeable. The search always continues, although Tlusty's success is highly dependent on theirs.

To me, hockey is a lot of want-to, and lines gelling into at least anchor pairs is a big step toward wringing more consistent performance from the component parts. I'm seeing that between Eric and Alex.

 

[Ole Gil]

I personally feel like ...

Very interesting take. I think I like your answer more than mine. It definitely seems to fit.

Our sociological motivations are quite interesting.

 

[rocky7]

I'm observing a lot of conversation and easy smiles between Eric and Alex this season that has me encouraged that they will each eventually find their way through their individual funks and meld into one of those formidable skill pairings that make top lines and first PP units deadly successful.

Third piece for that line is complementary and interchangeable. The search always continues, although Tlusty's success is highly dependent on theirs.

To me, hockey is a lot of want-to, and lines gelling into at least anchor pairs is a big step toward wringing more consistent performance from the component parts. I'm seeing that between Eric and Alex.

they do seem to have a good relationship and like you say appears to be obvious on the bench, when one or the other scores, and just their on going chemistry that you can see is still there, but perhaps just a bit off yet. I do think other teams have really put alot more focus on them than they did last season. that and the fact that they have been asked to adjust their overall rolls this year.

 

[Joe McGrath]

The thing that keeps hope alive is that Eric and Jordan both have the "Staal switch" that turns on mid season we have seen from Eric before. If it turns on for both at the same time it could result in one hell of a run.