GDT: GAME 77 3/28/18 Aves vs. Flyera - Hey, least they're wearing orange!

[member 116861]

You're allowed to have your opinion, just don't pull out the "I'm just calling it like I see it" card when you're very obviously not doing that and are instead engaging in yet another round of weird Landeskog bashing. Most of the time your Landeskog bashing is ignored by me, but in this instance I felt it necessary to call out what you posted. And you're still trying to have your cake and eat it too by saying "I'm not saying Landeskog was solely to blame....but let me go ahead and tell you why I'm singling him out as he ****ed us out of a win". No, that's not going to work.

The guy, aside from the lockout season and injury-shortened season, has been a statistical model of offensive output, as in you can pencil him in for 20+ goals and 50+ points every year. He's primed this year to have his second best season, offensively, has a good chance at setting a new career high in goals scored this season, and all of that while providing above-average defensive play.

It's getting to the point where I don't know what Landeskog bashers want from the guy. He's adapted his playing style in an effort to last longer--which I'd prefer.

And it's fine if you want to disregard the opinion of a man who, as I said, played competitive hockey...but I'll take his word as to how hard converting on a chance like that can really be over yours, because you know--he's had some practice at it.

Reminds me of someone and that Duchesne guy.

 

[Foppa2118]

My first thought after this game is whoever was in charge of the ice, needs to be reprimanded. So many passes and scoring chances were ruined by pucks bouncing over sticks, and they can’t have that this time of year. Just financially speaking, if they continue to have bounces go against them, they could easily miss the playoffs and lose millions in revenue.

My second thought after this game is “Hit the f***** net!"

Third is “Put the damn puck IN the net!”

So many chances ruined by pucks needlessly going wide, or shooting into the pads with a quarter of the net or more wide open.

My other problem with this team now is that nobody except Laneskog will skate to the net and stop. Everyone else just does a fly by and skates right past the rebounds. Compher did it on a glorious rebound with the whole net open. Kerfoot's doing it. Mikko is doing it. Yak does it every shift.

Comeau was directly responsible for the third goal last game with a lazy backchck, and he was fairly invisible in this game. He should be one of the main guys going to the net and causing havoc, but he doesn’t seem interested in getting his nose dirty right now.

The coaching staff needs to get in everyones ear and tell them to go to the net and stop, especially when they get the puck back to the point for shots from defenseman. They can’t just stay on the perimeter all the time looking to make fancy passes. They’re just not there this time of year.

The checking is too tight in these games down the stretch, and they need to simplify their game. They’re wasting opportunities for rebound goals by just doing flybys past the net.

Another thought. Brandon Manning is a little you know what. He gives Jost the howdy doody and lifts his stick into the junk of Jost in the final seconds causing him noticeable pain. Then he slashes at his leg after the game ends. Then he waits for Simmonds to come to his rescue, and lets Barrie ever so gently push him 20 feet away into the corner as a scrum starts. Straight b**** move.

My final thought is that this team is all but dead in the water if they don’t score first.

They are the 9th best team in the NHL in terms of winning percentage when they score first. They are 27th when the opposition scores first.

To put that in perspective, 34 of their wins this year have come when they scored first. Only 7 have come when the other team scored first.

Only three teams have fewer wins when the opposition scores first. Two of them being among the worst teams in the NHL in Arizona and Buffalo, and the other being Carolina who is outside the playoff picture.

This team has played well this year, but they still display a lot of characteristics of a young inexpereicned team.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[AvsMakar08]

I guessed 70-75 points before the season, so it's all good. Didn't expect MacKinnon, Rantanen and Barrie to take this big a step forward. Didn't expect the goaltending to be this good, even though it was bad the first couple of months.

I agree that MacK and Rants took huge steps forward but I disagree with Barrie. Barrie is a one dimentional player. He has not improved in his defensive game, passing out of the defensive zone have been just decent, transition game to Ozone just decent. Barrie is a totally different Barrie that we saw in playoffs against the Wild. Carying the puck up the ice and things like that. Now he no longer does that, he gives our forwards to carry the puck through the neutral zone. I am expecting more from Barrie.

 

[McMetal]

This team has played well this year, but they still display a lot of characteristics of a young inexpereicned team.

The season in a sentence right here. Lots of positive things to take away from the season and the team, but the lack of seasoning and experience in high pressure, tight checking games is becoming more obvious by the day, especially for the rookies.

No matter what, playoffs or not, the season was a roaring success because now at least all of these young guys have played meaningful NHL games. Hopefully, they will be more prepared in the future.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I agree that MacK and Rants took huge steps forward but I disagree with Barrie. Barrie is a one dimentional player. He has not improved in his defensive game, passing out of the defensive zone have been just decent, transition game to Ozone just decent. Barrie is a totally different Barrie that we saw in playoffs against the Wild. Carying the puck up the ice and things like that. Now he no longer does that, he gives our forwards to carry the puck through the neutral zone. I am expecting more from Barrie.

Couldn't disagree more and feel that Barrie, with the added confidence over the last few years, has become one of the absolute most elite breakout players in the game. He puck retrieves at full speed(watch Girard slow down when the forechecker is on top of him), he can carry out or hit the pass, and that puck is out of our zone in a couple of seconds. He almost never ices it or makes a desperate clearance. You can bash a lot of his game, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Foppa2118]

Couldn't disagree more and feel that Barrie, with the added confidence over the last few years, has become one of the absolute most elite breakout players in the game. He puck retrieves at full speed(watch Girard slow down when the forechecker is on top of him), he can carry out or hit the pass, and that puck is out of our zone in a couple of seconds. He almost never ices it or makes a desperate clearance. You can bash a lot of his game, but this isn't one of them.

Girard has to take that approach. If he tries to go in first, he will lose the battle a high percentage of the time because of his physical limitations. Barrie's way of doing it isn't necessarily better, because he's only a little bigger than Girard.

I think he would be much better served taking Girard's approach more often. Too often he goes in full speed for the puck, then gets pressured, and forces passes off the mark, and they get pinned in the zone as a result.

If he takes a safer approach in certain situations (not all), he may not get the puck out of the zone more often, but at least he can buy time until help arrives, and prevent turnovers, and the chaos they create afterwards.

He doesn't have to do this all the time, because he's at his best when he's moving his feet and getting the puck out of the zone ASAP. Just a little more often when these games get tight, and they're running around the D zone too much.

 

[PAZ]

70 points and Dahlin.

To be honest I'd take that over 90 points and heart breaking playoff miss by couple of points.

90 and 80 points for MacK and Rantanen are nice though

If we had 70 points and Dahlin it would also mean we had a 60-70 point Mack and 50-60 point Rants.

 

[the_fan]

Actually correction, I wasn't expecting Dahlin, I was just expecting a 70 point season. I would of liked Dahlin, wasn't expecting a lottery win

 

[Foppa2118]

The captain has to step up in these situations, Sakic did it all the time. Not saying Landeskog has to be Sakic level clutch, but a big goal here and there especially when they are on your stick 6 inches from the net would be nice.

It feels like this is the mindset that a lot of those that critique Landeskog so heavily, have.

Landeskog is not, and never will be Joe Sakic. He's not that kind of player, and he doesn't have that kind of talent. Just because they both wore the C, doesn't mean their expectations, and contributions to the team are the same.

No one was criticizing Sakic for not playing the physically demanding style in both the D zone and the O zone that Landy does, that helps the team and his line mates so much. That wasn't Sakic's game. That role was left to others. Sakic's role is left to MacKinnon, and he's done a pretty good job of it this year. By extent, this is also why Duchene not fulfilling his role hurt the team in so many losing seasons.

Landy however, does fulfill his role. His role is playing physical grinding hockey so the talented players don't have to wear themselves out doing it. His role is playing hard defensive minutes, and still having the smarts to work with talented players like Nate and Mikko. These physically grueling minutes also contribute to not having the softest hands every night.

His role is also chipping in offense, and he's on pace for 61 points, and matching a career high with 26 goals. Those are good numbers for an elite power forward, two way winger. It's not like he's underperforming offensively.

He misses his chances every now and then, and it would be great if he didn't, but if this team leaves the fate of winning and losing up to Landeskog scoring, then they've already screwed up. He is behind MacKinnon, Mikko, Barrie, and preferably at least one forward on the 2nd line in terms of generating offense. Their roles are much more dependent on this than Landy's role.

There's also a great deal of amnesia about Landeskog's contributions. He'll play great for 10 games or so, and a lot of his critics will just look the other way. Then he'll miss a couple chances, and all the daggers come out.

You ask for a big goal here and there, but you've already forgotten he scored a massive clutch goal just two games ago, that earned the team two points with his goal in the SO.

 

[chet1926]

It feels like this is the mindset that a lot of those that critique Landeskog so heavily, have.

Landeskog is not, and never will be Joe Sakic. He's not that kind of player, and he doesn't have that kind of talent. Just because they both wore the C, doesn't mean their expectations, and contributions to the team are the same.

No one was criticizing Sakic for not playing the physically demanding style in both the D zone and the O zone that Landy does, that helps the team and his line mates so much. That wasn't Sakic's game. That role was left to others. Sakic's role is left to MacKinnon, and he's done a pretty good job of it this year. By extent, this is also why Duchene not fulfilling his role hurt the team in so many losing seasons.

Landy however, does fulfill his role. His role is playing physical grinding hockey so the talented players don't have to wear themselves out doing it. His role is playing hard defensive minutes, and still having the smarts to work with talented players like Nate and Mikko. These physically grueling minutes also contribute to not having the softest hands every night.

His role is also chipping in offense, and he's on pace for 61 points, and matching a career high with 26 goals. Those are good numbers for an elite power forward, two way winger. It's not like he's underperforming offensively.

He misses his chances every now and then, and it would be great if he didn't, but if this team leaves the fate of winning and losing up to Landeskog scoring, then they've already screwed up. He is behind MacKinnon, Mikko, Barrie, and preferably at least one forward on the 2nd line in terms of generating offense. Their roles are much more dependent on this than Landy's role.

There's also a great deal of amnesia about Landeskog's contributions. He'll play great for 10 games or so, and a lot of his critics will just look the other way. Then he'll miss a couple chances, and all the daggers come out.

You ask for a big goal here and there, but you've already forgotten he scored a massive clutch goal just two games ago, that earned the team two points with his goal in the SO.

I have no delusions that Landeskog is anywhere near Sakic in terms of talent or clutchness and he will never be close.

Nor do I have the expectation that just because he wears the C, that he should be a 90+pts player. I have no problem with him being a 50-65 pts guy. I've never expected much more offensively from him.

I do have a problem with his prolonged "cold streaks" where he looks barely capable of playing NHL hockey. His consistency is on par with Mr. headcase, Duchene. You never know what player you're going to get these days with Landy. I guess you can say at least at the end of the year you can expect about 25goals and 55pts, but the way he gets there is infuriating and very frustrating as one month he looks incredible and the next he is pathetic and can't do anything.

I find it convenient that everyone looks the other way when Landeskog had a month this season starting right before MacKinnon got hurt extending to a few games after he came back where Landeskog looked miserable. Like can even skate with a puck without turning it over bad.

And no I have not forgotten the shootout goal against Vegas. But do you recall him blowing 3 amazingly great chances throughout the game, that would have more than likely won the game in regulation? He has got to bury some of these prime chances he is getting.

I also agree with your premise that if we are relying on Landy to be an offensive catalyst it's probably not going to end well. At the same time, I do feel when you are getting chance after chance and not finishing a few of them it's not good, as we do rely on him to be a decent scorer. I can count at least 6 prime chances over the past 3 games in which Landy didn't finish. We need him to capitalize on stuff like last night where it sitting right there. I mean if he finishes 2 of these prime chances we probably aren't having this conversation as we probably come away with a victory in at least the Philly game.

He's not the only person blowing chance after chance, Comeau falls on a clean break against Vegas, Rantanen blows a bunny in the 2nd period against Philly, MacKinnon fumbled a good chance in period 1 against Philly, Compher has had like 3 or 4 good chances the past couple games.

 

[Foppa2118]

I have no delusions that Landeskog is anywhere near Sakic in terms of talent or clutchness and he will never be close.

Nor do I have the expectation that just because he wears the C, that he should be a 90+pts player. I have no problem with him being a 50-65 pts guy. I've never expected much more offensively from him.

I do have a problem with his prolonged "cold streaks" where he looks barely capable of playing NHL hockey. His consistency is on par with Mr. headcase, Duchene. You never know what player you're going to get these days with Landy. I guess you can say at least at the end of the year you can expect about 25goals and 55pts, but the way he gets there is infuriating and very frustrating as one month he looks incredible and the next he is pathetic and can't do anything.

I find it convenient that everyone looks the other way when Landeskog had a month this season starting right before MacKinnon got hurt extending to a few games after he came back where Landeskog looked miserable. Like can even skate with a puck without turning it over bad.

And no I have not forgotten the shootout goal against Vegas. But do you recall him blowing 3 amazingly great chances throughout the game, that would have more than likely won the game in regulation? He has got to bury some of these prime chances he is getting.

I also agree with your premise that if we are relying on Landy to be an offensive catalyst it's probably not going to end well. At the same time, I do feel when you are getting chance after chance and not finishing a few of them it's not good, as we do rely on him to be a decent scorer. I can count at least 6 prime chances over the past 3 games in which Landy didn't finish. We need him to capitalize on stuff like last night where it sitting right there. I mean if he finishes 2 of these prime chances we probably aren't having this conversation as we probably come away with a victory in at least the Philly game.

He's not the only person blowing chance after chance, Comeau falls on a clean break against Vegas, Rantanen blows a bunny in the 2nd period against Philly, MacKinnon fumbled a good chance in period 1 against Philly, Compher has had like 3 or 4 good chances the past couple games.

Fair enough. I feel like your characterization of him is way worse than how he's looked when he's off his game, but I appreciate you at least expounding on why you feel the way you do.

 

[klozge]

...My other problem with this team now is that nobody except Landeskog will skate to the net and stop. Everyone else just does a fly by and skates right past the rebounds...

I've been noticing this as well. Drives me crazy.

 

[S E P H]

My first thought after this game is whoever was in charge of the ice, needs to be reprimanded. So many passes and scoring chances were ruined by pucks bouncing over sticks, and they can’t have that this time of year. Just financially speaking, if they continue to have bounces go against them, they could easily miss the playoffs and lose millions in revenue.

You're a strange poster because you do criticize the players (except of course when it's Landeskog, MacKinnon, or Varlamov), however, you then go into ancient aliens prophecy and say a bunch of random stuff on top of that. Seriously the ice crew will be responsible for a losing millions because Avs won't make the playoffs? Because of the freakin' ice crew? I just don't know what to say... Perhaps blame the Nuggets with the Charlotte Grahame and the guy who's in charge of making ice I guess.

 

[the_fan]

I blame the zamboni guy.

 

[Foppa2118]

You're a strange poster because you do criticize the players (except of course when it's Landeskog, MacKinnon, or Varlamov), however, you then go into ancient aliens prophecy and say a bunch of random stuff on top of that. Seriously the ice crew will be responsible for a losing millions because Avs won't make the playoffs? Because of the freakin' ice crew? I just don't know what to say... Perhaps blame the Nuggets with the Charlotte Grahame and the guy who's in charge of making ice I guess.

You're equally interesting because apparently when you don't agree with someone, you'll go out of your way to quote them, and twist what they say into something that's not even in the same stratosphere.

This is the second time recently where you've gone out of your way to quote me, and take a very normal comment, and twist it into something crazy.

How in the world do you compare critiquing the ice surface when the puck is bouncing all over the place while the Avs are in the middle of dangerous rushes, and scoring chances in the slot, to ancient alien conspiracy theories? Are you just practicing for a job in Washington or something? I don't get the motivation to do this.

Teams make millions, and tens of millions during the playoffs. My point was that ownership has an incentive not to be apathetic towards the ice crew like they do most things with the team, because with the margin for error so small in the playoff race, these bad bounces could cost them millions. I don't give two craps whether they make any more money, I care that the team makes the playoffs.

Really not sure your motivation here to keep characterizing my views as something so far away from what I'm actually saying. I'm sorry I don't agree with your views on Landy. As you can see, I didn't harp on it with Chet after he made a very well thought out post, instead of just saying he sucks.

Adding MacKinnon into this is pretty hilarious. I've criticized plenty of aspects of his game in the past, specifically his mental game and maturity. I've also been from what I've seen, one of, if not the only one pushing the idea that he needs to get better at face-offs because of the ice time he gets.

Sorry if I'm not slamming him during a season where he could win the Hart trophy. I'm sure there's some conspiracy theory behind that as well.

There's also these comments from me recently, which of course conveniently you missed, because conveniently it doesn't suit your "I can't see Landeskog/MacKinnon/Varly's faults" narrative.

All of these were made this season. The Landy and Nate comments just a few weeks ago:

I’m a big fan of Landy, but he was pretty invisible in this one aside from his one timer goal late in the 3rd. Avs need him to be more of a presence in the O zone. He needs to get to the net and cause havoc, he’s playing on the perimeter way too much. Needs to start burying his chances too. He gets way too many glorious scoring chances that he just shoots right into the goalie’s pads.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-and-blue-5pm.2460947/page-30#post-142782853

Wow was this a brutal game for everyone on the ice. Landy was brutal. Varly was brutal.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...pm-mt-no-sleep.2422461/page-13#post-138999199

MacKinnon was really bad defensively in this one as well. Right on the heels of losing his man in OT last game, he lost his man numerous times again in this one, giving up a couple dangerous scoring chances. Almost ended their comeback by forgetting to cover for Barrie in the 3rd too, who had pinched down low on what had to be a set play off the faceoff that Nate must have known about.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-and-blue-5pm.2460947/page-30#post-142782853

Just watched this one. Another lost faceoff in OT by Nate, and then he just stands at center ice watching Toews skate past him for the 2 on 1. Another point sits on the table. These very well could come back to bite them.

Great goal by him, but he dogged it a fair bit in the first, and a few more times in the second before Bednar demoted him off the first line. Totally fine with that wakeup call. He's been great lately, but the bar is just higher for him. He can't have games where he's not giving second and third efforts down the stretch here. These games are too important.

He's the reason the Avs are in the playoff hunt, but he has to find a way to be more engaged on the road. Mentally, he's just not into road games the way he is at home for some reason.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-again-6-30-pm.2459829/page-29#post-142727723

One faceoff can be the difference. Nate lost his clean at 1:43 and the puck stayed in the zone until Nashville tied the game at 1:06. They directed 5 hard shots towards the net in that time. Nate wins that draw and at the very least they have a good chance at killing 10-15 seconds, and preventing them from setting up in the zone with time and space to make plays 6 on 5. At best they skate the puck to the red line and score on the EN, and get two points instead of one.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-again-6-30-pm.2459829/page-29#post-142727723

The first and third goals were iffy as Varly was too slow to react to the pass. The Carlson goal was just straight up bad. Even if it's a hard slapper, he can't let that go in unscreened from that far out.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...s-your-analysis.2420917/page-3#post-139055397

Varly was a factor in the loss because he's capable of making big saves the whole game, like he did earlier to let them get back in it and gain a point, but he didn't. That's a problem, but it's not accurate to paint this game with the same kind of brush Dubnyk had the last two games against the Avs.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-all-the-time.2458461/page-35#post-142609251

And for the love of god Varly, can you lay off the Swiss cheese? I’ve never seen a goaltender look so dialed in and dominant in game, and still let a couple squeak through him. Luckily only one went in.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/game-33-penguins-avalanche.2424819/page-14#post-139206925

 

[S E P H]

You're equally interesting because apparently when you don't agree with someone, you'll go out of your way to quote them, and twist what they say into something that's not even in the same stratosphere.

This is the second time recently where you've gone out of your way to quote me, and take a very normal comment, and twist it into something crazy.

How in the world do you compare critiquing the ice surface when the puck is bouncing all over the place while the Avs are in the middle of dangerous rushes, and scoring chances in the slot, to ancient alien conspiracy theories? Are you just practicing for a job in Washington or something? I don't get the motivation to do this.

Teams make millions, and tens of millions during the playoffs. My point was that ownership has an incentive not to be apathetic towards the ice crew like they do most things with the team, because with the margin for error so small in the playoff race, these bad bounces could cost them millions. I don't give two craps whether they make any more money, I care that the team makes the playoffs.

Really not sure your motivation here to keep characterizing my views as something so far away from what I'm actually saying. I'm sorry I don't agree with your views on Landy. As you can see, I didn't harp on it with Chet after he made a very well thought out post, instead of just saying he sucks.

Adding MacKinnon into this is pretty hilarious. I've criticized plenty of aspects of his game in the past, specifically his mental game and maturity. I've also been from what I've seen, one of, if not the only one pushing the idea that he needs to get better at face-offs because of the ice time he gets.

Sorry if I'm not slamming him during a season where he could win the Hart trophy. I'm sure there's some conspiracy theory behind that as well.

There's also these comments from me recently, which of course conveniently you missed, because conveniently it doesn't suit your "I can't see Landeskog/MacKinnon/Varly's faults" narrative.

All of these were made this season. The Landy and Nate comments just a few weeks ago:


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-and-blue-5pm.2460947/page-30#post-142782853



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...pm-mt-no-sleep.2422461/page-13#post-138999199



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-and-blue-5pm.2460947/page-30#post-142782853



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-again-6-30-pm.2459829/page-29#post-142727723



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-again-6-30-pm.2459829/page-29#post-142727723



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...s-your-analysis.2420917/page-3#post-139055397



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...k-all-the-time.2458461/page-35#post-142609251



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/game-33-penguins-avalanche.2424819/page-14#post-139206925