GDT: Game 75 | FLA @ CBJ | 7 PM EST | Spare Parts Edition

[I3LI3]

That was not just what he took issue with. And that’s also not just what your posts were talking about either.

Yes, Peeke was a -6. That is an objective stat. A fact.

+/- being useless is a subjective opinion. As is your opinion that Andrew Peeke is bad. Which is the other thing he took issue with.

okay, take a look at some other stats of his that are more advanced.. maybe you wouldn’t think those are useless stats.

like his xGA… SA at even strength.. etc.

him and gudbranson by far have the worst advanced stats on the team.

just because this is an entirely lost season and historically one of, if not, the worst Jackets team in franchise history.. he gets a pass? “oh, we can’t look at his stats this season. let’s try again next year” lol

 

[614 CBJ]

 

[ColumbusTrill]

okay, take a look at some other stats of his that are more advanced.. maybe you wouldn’t think those are useless stats.

like his xGA… SA at even strength.. etc.

him and gudbranson by far have the worst advanced stats on the team.

just because this is an entirely lost season and historically one of, if not, the worst Jackets team in franchise history.. he gets a pass? “oh, we can’t look at his stats this season. let’s try again next year” lol

His xGF% at 5v5 is virtually the same as Gavrikov's when he was on the team (43% vs 44%). He's played the most minutes of anyone on the team this year at 5v5 when realistically he should be nowhere near the top. Young player playing above what his role should be on a bad team is not going to be pretty.

 

[majormajor]

As is your opinion that Andrew Peeke is bad. Which is the other thing he took issue with.

I'm fine with saying that Andrew Peeke has been bad this year. It seems clear enough to me.

Maybe he doesn't end up pulling it together, I don't know, but sometimes players who are playing poorly on very bad teams are useful players on good teams.

We can disagree on whether Peeke is ever good but I hope folks aren't writing the book on players based on this year.

just because this is an entirely lost season and historically one of, if not, the worst Jackets team in franchise history.. he gets a pass?

I don't know if "pass" is the right word, but defender's stats are going to be meaningless in a year like this.

Remember when the Kings were awful and Drew Doughty was the worst D analytically in the league? Now they're good and he's a #1D again. Brandon Montour supposedly didn't belong in the league in Buffalo and is now a top pair guy. Gavrikov from this same team was putting up terrible numbers here, and is now putting up great numbers for the Kings.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

okay, take a look at some other stats of his that are more advanced.. maybe you wouldn’t think those are useless stats.

like his xGA… SA at even strength.. etc.

him and gudbranson by far have the worst advanced stats on the team.

just because this is an entirely lost season and historically one of, if not, the worst Jackets team in franchise history.. he gets a pass? “oh, we can’t look at his stats this season. let’s try again next year” lol

You’re putting words in my mouth. I have not said any of this

I already said he was a fine 5 or 6. With potential to be more. That’s not a ringing endorsement.

 

[I3LI3]

His xGF% at 5v5 is virtually the same as Gavrikov's when he was on the team (43% vs 44%). He's played the most minutes of anyone on the team this year at 5v5 when realistically he should be nowhere near the top. Young player playing above what his role should be on a bad team is not going to be pretty.

I like how with that first sentence you’re acting as if Gavi was playing as well with us as he is to start his Kings tenure, lol.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

I like how with that first sentence you’re acting as if Gavi was playing as well with us as he is to start his Kings tenure, lol.

Look at this cbj team vs the kings and ask yourself which one would be easier to play at a high level on. Once again a guy who was in way over his head

 

[I3LI3]

His xGF% at 5v5 is virtually the same as Gavrikov's when he was on the team (43% vs 44%). He's played the most minutes of anyone on the team this year at 5v5 when realistically he should be nowhere near the top. Young player playing above what his role should be on a bad team is not going to be pretty.

I like how with that first sentence you’re acting Gavi was playing on the same level with us as he is to start his Kings tenure

“Look at this cbj team vs the kings and ask yourself which one would be easier to play at a high level on. Once again a guy who was in way over his head”

that’s not what I was getting at. you compared Peake’s xGF percentage at even strength to Gavi’s as if Gavi’s xGF percentage at ES was good or something.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

I like how with that first sentence you’re acting Gavi was playing on the same level with us as he is to start his Kings tenure

“Look at this cbj team vs the kings and ask yourself which one would be easier to play at a high level on. Once again a guy who was in way over his head”

that’s not what I was getting at. you compared Peake’s xGF percentage at even strength to Gavi’s as if Gavi’s xGF percentage at ES was good or something.

Lol I don’t know how you think I said a 44% xg is good. What were all saying is you can’t close the book on peeke being bad because gavrikov put up the same numbers on this team and when put in a better situation it’s obvious he’s not a bad player

 

[Cowumbus]

Didn’t watch the game.

How did Richards look?

 

[stevo61]

Im gonna say it again because it seems to be a topic of tonight. Advanced stats suck and peoples use of them suck even more

 

[tunnelvision]

Im gonna say it again because it seems to be a topic of tonight. Advanced stats suck and peoples use of them suck even more

What would be the correct way of using them? Genuine question from someone who struggles at interpreting them and giving them right amount of importance in any given debate or context.

 

[majormajor]

Im gonna say it again because it seems to be a topic of tonight. Advanced stats suck and peoples use of them suck even more

I think they're great.

But it's kind of interesting how useless they can be in the current context.

Like if we ask: If we have a cup contending team in three years, which of the players on the current Blue Jackets can be helpful on that team? Advanced stats from this team isn't going to be very helpful for that.

 

[VT]

I don't know about the Kings, but what I didn't like was that Gabcikovo often lost battles at the boards and in front of the goalie to tougher players here. Also not ideal the first pass here.
Peeke isn't Gavrikov. Besides we have RD so I wouldn't be suprise his trade.
To the game. Many AHL players played in the game. And defense isn't only about one d-man but the whole players on the ice. On the other hand look at his game against Boston.

 

[EspenK]

I think they're great.

But it's kind of interesting how useless they can be in the current context.

Like if we ask: If we have a cup contending team in three years, which of the players on the current Blue Jackets can be helpful on that team? Advanced stats from this team isn't going to be very helpful for that.

I'm with Steve on advanced stats. Out of curiosity when are they not useless? When the expecteds are really high? I am much more impressed with they actually happen? And then they are not expected but real?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Advanced stats are still stats. They’re tracked in order to help tell a larger story. They help provide context to fundamental stats. But there is still broader context to advanced stats. While the eye test isn’t always perfect, it’s not worthless, either, and may still be the most important part of the story.

They’re tools. They’re meant to be used, not to usurp the user.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I can relate. We traveled to Finland and saw back to back debacles.

This season has been so bad I forgot they played in Finland this fall.

 

[NotWendell]

Why are they all named Safelite?

 

[majormajor]

I'm with Steve on advanced stats. Out of curiosity when are they not useless? When the expecteds are really high? I am much more impressed with they actually happen? And then they are not expected but real?

Here's one example. Let's say that you call up a young guy from the minors and he scores 25 goals somewhat unexpectedly. He wasn't a known sniper. Is it a hot streak or is he for real? Then the xGs could be really telling. You can usually spot a flash in the pan from the xGs.

It can also be one of our best tools for evaluating defensemen, you can't just count goals for them. But like I was saying, xGs for defensemen on horrible teams give you mostly useless info. It only works on normal teams.

 

[Columbus Jack]

Good thing plus minus doesn’t indicate whether or not he’s good then.

If you're the only guy on the team who is minus 6, I'd say thats not a good indicator

 

[CBJWerenski8]

If you're the only guy on the team who is minus 6, I'd say thats not a good indicator

Doesn’t indicate much to me

 

[koteka]

Doesn’t indicate much to me

It does to me. It could mean the guy gets more defensive zone starts and tougher matchups than his teammates. Or it could mean he is not as good as other guys 5 on 5. Or it could mean he is unlucky. You need to dig a little further. But it indicates something. If it happens across multiple seasons, you can’t really put it down to luck. If he gets defensive zone starts against the other teams’ best players, it indicates usage and may indicate the guy’s value. You can’t just point to a -6 and know what it means, but it does indicate something.

 

[614 CBJ]

Why are they all named Safelite?

it's one of the dozen words in Portzline's vocabulary

 

[Columbus Jack]

Doesn’t indicate much to me

This is the lazy rebuttal for players who are garbage for multiple years and who fail the eye test.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This is the lazy rebuttal for players who are garbage for multiple years and who fail the eye test.

I guess it’s on par with the laziness of looking at a -6 stat line on a bottom 5 team.