GDT: Game 69 (nice) | CBJ @ Vegas | 4 PM EST

[Cowumbus]

Didn't watch, was at NWA watching more basketball. How did Laine look at center?

Mid, brutally-average.

People are comparing him to the CBJ level of centers. His effort was high at least.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Mid, brutally-average.

People are comparing him to the CBJ level of centers. His effort was high at least.

I see he was dreadful at faceoffs, not that we were expecting that to be good.

If he was mid against Vegas I'll call that a win. Maybe its worth exploring more of. Just going to have to deal with the lack of FO wins.

 

[Cowumbus]

I see he was dreadful at faceoffs, not that we were expecting that to be good.

If he was mid against Vegas I'll call that a win. Maybe its worth exploring more of. Just going to have to deal with the lack of FO wins.

Mid as in, Johnson still would be a better C rn.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Mid as in, Johnson still would be a better C rn.

Well yeah, that's still stupid he's not there. But can't do anything about that. Gotta take the positives where we can I guess

 

[Halberdier]

I’m nearly speechless.

Maybe we can petition the league to issue the CBJ team points based upon Laine’s corsi or heat charts after the game….

They’d be a playoff lock if so.

For sure you are speechless. The guy you passionately hate ended up not only doing fine at center (except on FOs), but happened to be the most successful Blue Jacket on ice while doing so.

 

[I3LI3]

Mid, brutally-average.

People are comparing him to the CBJ level of centers. His effort was high at least.

huh?

according to hockeystatcards, he was by far our best player. he was also the only player aside from marchenko on our squad to record a multi point game. I was harsh on him earlier in the thread for his faceoff percentage and rightfully so but how you can say he was just ‘mid’ is odd

 

[VT]

Mid, brutally-average.

People are comparing him to the CBJ level of centers. His effort was high at least.

Mid as in, Johnson still would be a better C rn.

You have to take into account that Johnson has the habits of a center, Laine was playing the position for the first time. Rome didn't get built in a day either. Sadly enough, he was probably the best our centers, including Jenner. And I don't mean stats per se (they don't differentiate wings and center), but play at the position. On the other hand, I can only hope that if Patrik plays center well, Kent doesn't stay on the wing. I'd rather move Jenner there because Kent can be a TOP center.

Btw, it's often written here that Voronkov would play center. But Dmitri plays wing in the KHL, same goes for the national team. Besides, he needs to get used to the NHL.

@thebus88 , I'm sure you find stats which shows that Laine played bad as center.

 

[NotCommitted]

I couldn't watch the game but I'm really curious about Laine at center, from stat watching it seems he was heavily sheltered with zone starts, something like 75% o-zone draws, which is wise The good thing is it also showed up in his metrics, despite losing most of his draws. Btw. there was a time early in the season where he lead the team in FOW% and he seems to take a decent amount of draws for a winger so I'm not worried about that in case him at C would become a long term thing. Of course for a winger the amount of draws is so small anyway that the number will fluctuate a lot and I don't think he'd be anywhere near 50% for quite a while taking them at center rates.

I read some very short Finnish interview in which he basically said he tries to do everything like a real center would and wants to be a good player both ways and sees it as an opportunity to take a step forward in his defensive game. Also said it's a different world and lot to learn. I'm not sure if that was pre- or post-game.

I think this whole thing of becoming a great overall player has reached a point where if you want him as a high scoring sniper winger, you really need to start taking action NOW Btw. when his team scores a goal 5v5 with him on the ice, he has a point on almost 83% of them, which is the 14th highest number in the league (filtered for min 300 TOI). He was over 80% last season as well, I think rather than having two complete outlier years in a row, it's just a sign of how much more he plays with the puck than he used to and how involved he is in any offense that happens while he's out there. Now, I for one wouldn't mind that number coming down if it meant either JG or his future center was setting him up for a shot, but I also think the perception of his game and him as a player is lagging behind how he's actually playing the game these days.

 

[thebus88]

huh?

View attachment 672651


according to hockeystatcards, he was by far our best player. he was also the only player aside from marchenko on our squad to record a multi point game. I was harsh on him earlier in the thread for his faceoff percentage and rightfully so but how you can say he was just ‘mid’ is odd

Brett Howden > Patrik Laine

Is that how this works?? Who cares who got 1 or 2 points in a 7-2 loss…

Being the “best” of something terrible means nothing.

When healthy, Laine is AT BEST, the 4th most important player on 1 of the worst teams in the league and in recent memory league wide. The most important players from any team, good or bad, have an impact on that team being good or bad. The idea that the “best” or “most important” players on a terrible team aren’t a reason why the team is so terrible is bogus.

Not to mention, Laine seems to be the only guy to get excused anyway, by many people, as guys like Jenner, Werenski, and Gaudreau are seemingly open to criticism, but, not the New Age Finnish Flash.

 

[BB88]

Brett Howden > Patrik Laine

Is that how this works?? Who cares who got 1 or 2 points in a 7-2 loss…

Being the “best” of something terrible means nothing.

When healthy, Laine is AT BEST, the 4th most important player on 1 of the worst teams in the league and in recent memory league wide. The most important players from any team, good or bad, have an impact on that team being good or bad. The idea that the “best” or “most important” players on a terrible team aren’t a reason why the team is so terrible is bogus.

Not to mention, Laine seems to be the only guy to get excused anyway, by many people, as guys like Jenner, Werenski, and Gaudreau are seemingly open to criticism, but, not the New Age Finnish Flash.

Laine excused from criticism?

Gaudreau gets nothing compared to Laine

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Btw. there was a time early in the season where he lead the team in FOW% and he seems to take a decent amount of draws for a winger so I'm not worried about that in case him at C would become a long term thing. Of course for a winger the amount of draws is so small anyway that the number will fluctuate a lot and I don't think he'd be anywhere near 50% for quite a while taking them at center rates.

Thanks for confirming this, I also feel like I've seen him take quite a few FO (and win them) as a winger. Hopefully he can improve if he needs to take them more.

The Finnish articles (like this Yle) seem to quote the Dispatch article by Hedger with Laine's comments.

Anyhow the actual post game media is up as well:

 

[MoeBartoli]

Didn't watch, was at NWA watching more basketball. How did Laine look at center?

Mid, brutally-average.

People are comparing him to the CBJ level of centers. His effort was high at least.

Aside from being terrible on face-offs, I thought he did very well. He and Marchenko were the two best Jackets on the ice. Check out the website Money Puck and you’ll see they were the only effective line in controlling play.

 

[stevo61]

I see he was dreadful at faceoffs, not that we were expecting that to be good.

If he was mid against Vegas I'll call that a win. Maybe its worth exploring more of. Just going to have to deal with the lack of FO wins.

eh he was good, Johnson at best would have been as good. If this gets Laine more engaged thats a better positive than getting Johnson to center as its going to happen anyway. Both things can happen. Laine weirdly has some good qualities to be a center and him with a high effort level and that long stick can be very disruptive defensively.

I know its been a long season and people are talking with their hearts and not their brains but as a 1st game at center that was hugely positive

 

[EDM]

If moving Laine to center comes to pass as a permanent move, it would open up a wing spot for Dumas which could be very exciting.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

From the pre and post game interviews (especially pre) it sounds like Patty wants to keep things interesting for himself and use the time to learn new things. It's extra motivation for him clearly. I wonder if the team is thinking that maybe if Patty does an ok job, it would free up Silly to go to AHL eventually... It sounds ludicrous on the face of it but if they keep using the excuse of not having enough centers, then suddenly something like this could be an answer.

I very much doubt Laine is going to play center next season. But this is a great time to try this out and hope it helps him become a better player especially defensively.

 

[VT]

eh he was good, Johnson at best would have been as good. If this gets Laine more engaged thats a better positive than getting Johnson to center as its going to happen anyway. Both things can happen. Laine weirdly has some good qualities to be a center and him with a high effort level and that long stick can be very disruptive defensively.

I know its been a long season and people are talking with their hearts and not their brains but as a 1st game at center that was hugely positive

And next season he will win the Selke Trophy Trophy.

 

[EspenK]

I think it is all a ploy to justifying taking Michkov instead of Bedard...

 

[KJ Dangler]

Aside from being terrible on face-offs, I thought he did very well. He and Marchenko were the two best Jackets on the ice. Check out the website Money Puck and you’ll see they were the only effective line in controlling play.

I would add Foudy.. but you are correct .. Laine Looked really good at center … who would have thought someone trying center , going up against the likes of Eichel would struggle in his faceoffs .

Laine finished the game with 17:32 played over 20 shifts, and per Natural Stat Trick, there was a lot to like with his line. Through two periods, with that trio on the ice, the Blue Jackets had a 15-4 edge in shot attempts, a 4-0 edge in high-danger chances and an expected goals share of 93.4 percent. Vegas largely took over territorially on all the CBJ lines in the third, so those numbers finished 15-8, 4-3 and 57.1 percent respectively, but there still was a lot to build on.

The biggest issue, as one might expect, came in the faceoff circle where Laine won just 3 of 17 draws.

"Other than his faceoffs -- that's what we talked about (pregame) -- I thought he was responsible in the D-zone," said associate head coach Pascal Vincent, who ran the CBJ bench with head coach Brad Larsen away from the team because of a death in the family. "He used the middle of the ice to create some speed. Obviously there are some reads in the D-zone that need to be adjusted, but he was pretty responsible. Even with the puck I thought he was responsible, tried to play as a center.

"That's his first crack at it, and he's not feeling 100 percent. For a guy that it's the first time without even practicing too much at that position, I thought it was pretty good."

 

[Marioesque]

Is that how this works?? Who cares who got 1 or 2 points in a 7-2 loss…

Being the “best” of something terrible means nothing.

Here we go again with this thinking that Laine has to magically also affect the game of 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines and the defensemen when he is not even on the ice. If he can't magically affect the whole team from the bench, then he is useless.

That's how your argument sounds like. You don't judge him by his successes but you put the entire teams success as his responsibility.

He was +1 in a game where they allowed 7. Do you not understand that is a pretty solid performance for WHEN HE IS ON THE ICE? Why do you think it's still his responsibility when other lines get scored on constantly?

His line won their matchup. Everyone else lost theirs brutally.

 

[VT]

KIf moving Laine to center comes to pass as a permanent move, it would open up a wing spot for Dumas which could be very exciting.

Not quite. If centers will be, in alphabetical order, Johnson -- Kuraly -- Laine -- Sillinger/Jenner/Foudy, we have enough wings to TOP 9 if without drafts/trades/UFA.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

To be perfectly honest, it's not only about the line Laine is on - it's a question of putting all the eggs in the same basket vs. spreading them out. Not sure if this is the point thebus is making but personally I think a line of Laine + Gaudreau should be winning their matchups almost regardless of who they're playing against (and I think it was Vegas' second line?). Or to put it another way - a line of $18.5M+ combined cap space should do pretty well against ~anyone (maybe we can exclude Colorado's and Boston's first lines here).

So in essence:
Gaudreau-Laine-Marchenko winning their matchup
Johnson-Jenner-Roslovic losing their matchup

vs

Gaudreau-Jenner-Marchenko winning their matchup
Johnson-Roslovic-Laine winning their matchup

So it is about more than just the one line.

I don't know what point I was trying to make here but eh. Just happy to see the team experimenting with something that might help in different ways now/in the future.

 

[stevo61]

To be perfectly honest, it's not only about the line Laine is on - it's a question of putting all the eggs in the same basket vs. spreading them out. Not sure if this is the point thebus is making but personally I think a line of Laine + Gaudreau should be winning their matchups almost regardless of who they're playing against (and I think it was Vegas' second line?). Or to put it another way - a line of $18.5M+ combined cap space should do pretty well against ~anyone (maybe we can exclude Colorado's and Boston's first lines here).

So in essence:
Gaudreau-Laine-Marchenko winning their matchup
Johnson-Jenner-Roslovic losing their matchup

vs

Gaudreau-Jenner-Marchenko winning their matchup
Johnson-Roslovic-Laine winning their matchup

So it is about more than just the one line.

I don't know what point I was trying to make here but eh. Just happy to see the team experimenting with something that might help in different ways now/in the future.

Noone is winning a matchup longterm with our goalies. Also this is a look to the future as hopefully Roslovic's time is done here soon. People are ok with the winger Roslovic at center but Laine at center has ruffled some feathers. Atleast they put him in a position to succeed and he did. Its not Laine's fault the other lines didnt do their job but even still it was 1 game against the west leading Golden Knights


Edit: Kind of unrelated to this post but I didnt want to make a new one. Laine is only 24 and I think people forget that, he still has runway to mature and get better. Funnily enough hes just a month older than Blankenburg

 

[NotCommitted]

Not to mention, Laine seems to be the only guy to get excused anyway, by many people, as guys like Jenner, Werenski, and Gaudreau are seemingly open to criticism, but, not the New Age Finnish Flash.

Maybe if for once you came up even with some cherry picked something to support your "facts" instead of speaking down at everyone else, telling them "how it is" your "criticism" would actually hold some value.

He's been criticized plenty, but excuse people like me who actually like the guy for not criticizing him at every opportunity. I don't understand why you have such a big problem for people liking players you don't and Laine is not the only example of that but the one you seem to have the most obsession over lately.

I have no problem admitting I have a positive bias for him, that said I can make a pretty good case he's been the best player on the roster this season and I wouldn't even have to cherry pick my stats to do that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

To be perfectly honest, it's not only about the line Laine is on - it's a question of putting all the eggs in the same basket vs. spreading them out. Not sure if this is the point thebus is making but personally I think a line of Laine + Gaudreau should be winning their matchups almost regardless of who they're playing against (and I think it was Vegas' second line?). Or to put it another way - a line of $18.5M+ combined cap space should do pretty well against ~anyone (maybe we can exclude Colorado's and Boston's first lines here).

So in essence:
Gaudreau-Laine-Marchenko winning their matchup
Johnson-Jenner-Roslovic losing their matchup

vs

Gaudreau-Jenner-Marchenko winning their matchup
Johnson-Roslovic-Laine winning their matchup

So it is about more than just the one line.

I don't know what point I was trying to make here but eh. Just happy to see the team experimenting with something that might help in different ways now/in the future.

I was thinking something similar. It’s not only about whether Laine was good at center or his line was good with him at center but whether the lines/roster configuration is better with him at center.

The counter to that is that this is the time to try stuff and I’m not opposed, despite my gut-reaction eyeroll to the news. The answer to all those questions might be different next season than it is now but you can start your information-gathering now.

 

[EspenK]

I was thinking something similar. It’s not only about whether Laine was good at center or his line was good with him at center but whether the lines/roster configuration is better with him at center.

The counter to that is that this is the time to try stuff and I’m not opposed, despite my gut-reaction eyeroll to the news. The answer to all those questions might be different next season than it is now but you can start your information-gathering now.

Like Gudbrandson at W and maybe move Marchenko to D? Just try stuff that won't work.