GDT: Game 65: Red Wings vs yotes 7:00 pm et 3/14/24 (ESPN+, BSD)

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Lol, kicking ass getting WHOOPed by Fla/Col walking into the TDL with a Larkin injury.

This wasn't the narrative. Smoke was rising before the fire.

In the new year the team went 15-9 up to the trade deadline. In that stretch they had wins against teams like Toronto, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, Vancouver and Colorado. There wasn't a lot of smoke until basically the week before the deadline.

And the team's total collapse really only justifies not bringing in a rental at the deadline.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

And the team's total collapse really only justifies not bringing in a rental at the deadline.

As much as I wanted to see the playoffs, this stretch of games might be even more important for the young guys on the roster, including Larkin.

You can't just flip a switch before game one of the playoffs. Good teams that go past round one in the playoffs start tightening up their games in March. They figure out that adversity happens and that each individual has to raise their game to get through it. Our guys have never been in that position. Raymond has elevated his intensity but let's be real, he is a 21 year old winger with no center that can match his play right now.

This team has too many guys like Sprong, Ghost, Rasmussen who just have a baseline level of intensity and never grow past it.

In the AHL, the young guys are fighting to get into their playoffs and are doing pretty well. That group of prospects is building chemistry and learning how to be pros. As much as I want to see the young guys, Yzerman might be better off keeping them away from this dumpster fire.

Yzerman knows he has an unlimited timeline so he is probably looking at this as a better lesson than getting into the playoffs and getting trucked by Florida. Again, I hate this plan, because if every single prospect doesn't pan out we are stuck in a perpetual rebuild, but I can't say I don't see where he's going with it.

I think it also cements that Lalonde is not a coach who is going to drive a team through adversity in the playoffs. I would not be surprised to see him replaced with Gallant in the off-season.

 

[Snuggs]

In the new year the team went 15-9 up to the trade deadline. In that stretch they had wins against teams like Toronto, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, Vancouver and Colorado. There wasn't a lot of smoke until basically the week before the deadline.

And the team's total collapse really only justifies not bringing in a rental at the deadline.

Absolutely true, though you could point to those Vancouver/Colorado (wins)games as the starting point, pretty sure both were come behinds, they also lost big to Edmonton/Vancouver in the stretch going into this losing streak, so yeah, smoke was rolling for a minute. January was great, we get that, but it wasn't rolling like January through most of February and to act like it was cause January was so good is disingenuous to my side of the argument and dismissive.

MIGHT be true but it doesn't justify not selling pieces. Can't have it both ways. Thats my point more than anything. Then people want to spin it one way or another that this was the best course of action with the results it's provided. That there was no alternative course, this was the best action to take and I'm not buying it. Especially when I was sounding alarms before the TDL came and passed. I wasn't in the sell crowd, but I could have bought that more than this, this is absolutely the worst possible outcome for the Red Wings. I wanted to buy to sustain a playoff run. Just one win, or even one OT loss makes things look different, MAYBE a player somewhere would have changed just one game. What I do know now pretty confidently (not mathematically proven yet, still got games) making no moves cost you a playoff spot along with future draft picks/assets and you let a lot walk for nothing, possibly including prospects.

*Edit, if they make a HUGE turn around and do make the playoffs... Yzerman will look alright, for now I think I'm more than justified to whine. I also am not giving them enough credit for whoopin on the blues/capitals/flames but that was with a healthy Larkin.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Absolutely true, though you could point to those Vancouver/Colorado (wins)games as the starting point, pretty sure both were come behinds, they also lost big to Edmonton/Vancouver in the stretch going into this losing streak, so yeah, smoke was rolling for a minute. January was great, we get that, but it wasn't rolling like January through most of February and to act like it was cause January was so good is disingenuous to my side of the argument and dismissive.

MIGHT be true but it doesn't justify not selling pieces. Can't have it both ways. Thats my point more than anything. Then people want to spin it one way or another that this was the best course of action with the results it's provided. That there was no alternative course, this was the best action to take and I'm not buying it. Especially when I was sounding alarms before the TDL came and passed. I wasn't in the sell crowd, but I could have bought that more than this, this is absolutely the worst possible outcome for the Red Wings. I wanted to buy to sustain a playoff run. Just one win, or even one OT loss makes things look different, MAYBE a player somewhere would have changed just one game. What I do know now pretty confidently (not mathematically proven yet, still got games) making no moves cost you a playoff spot along with future draft picks/assets and you let a lot walk for nothing, possibly including prospects.

*Edit, if they make a HUGE turn around and do make the playoffs... Yzerman will look alright, for now I think I'm more than justified to whine. I also am not giving them enough credit for whoopin on the blues/capitals/flames but that was with a healthy Larkin.

It's pretty easy to say there were better courses of action in the midst of a 7 game losing streak.

Making no moves didn't cost this team a playoff spot. Larkin getting injured and this team's inability to pull out of a tailspin may very well cost them that spot.

And this isn't the worst possible outcome. The worst possible outcome for the Wings would've been using assets to bring in a rental and still missing the playoffs. Which given how they look now could very well have happened.

Your main issue seems to be with wanting to being right and the perception that people are spinning things as opposed to having differing opinions. There's nothing really I can do about that.

I'm glad Yzerman didn't give up anything to bring in a rental. If the team continues to be a dumpster fire and misses the playoffs, sure I wish he would've sold in retrospect. But it didn't look like the best option at the time.

 

[Snuggs]

It's pretty easy to say there were better courses of action in the midst of a 7 game losing streak.

Making no moves didn't cost this team a playoff spot. Larkin getting injured and this team's inability to pull out of a tailspin may very well cost them that spot.

And this isn't the worst possible outcome. The worst possible outcome for the Wings would've been using assets to bring in a rental and still missing the playoffs. Which given how they look now could very well have happened.

Your main issue seems to be with wanting to being right and the perception that people are spinning things as opposed to having differing opinions. There's nothing really I can do about that.

I'm glad Yzerman didn't give up anything to bring in a rental. If the team continues to be a dumpster fire and misses the playoffs, sure I wish he would've sold in retrospect. But it didn't look like the best option at the time.

Yeah no, I just wanted the Wings to be good. But I see how you are turning this argument and making it personal so. Whatever.

TBH with yourself you'd be ok with anything Yzerman did and you think I'm trying to be some type of guy for having an opinion.

I think our conversation is done.

 

[Gniwder]

As much as I wanted to see the playoffs, this stretch of games might be even more important for the young guys on the roster, including Larkin.

You can't just flip a switch before game one of the playoffs. Good teams that go past round one in the playoffs start tightening up their games in March. They figure out that adversity happens and that each individual has to raise their game to get through it. Our guys have never been in that position. Raymond has elevated his intensity but let's be real, he is a 21 year old winger with no center that can match his play right now.

This team has too many guys like Sprong, Ghost, Rasmussen who just have a baseline level of intensity and never grow past it.

In the AHL, the young guys are fighting to get into their playoffs and are doing pretty well. That group of prospects is building chemistry and learning how to be pros. As much as I want to see the young guys, Yzerman might be better off keeping them away from this dumpster fire.

Yzerman knows he has an unlimited timeline so he is probably looking at this as a better lesson than getting into the playoffs and getting trucked by Florida. Again, I hate this plan, because if every single prospect doesn't pan out we are stuck in a perpetual rebuild, but I can't say I don't see where he's going with it.

I think it also cements that Lalonde is not a coach who is going to drive a team through adversity in the playoffs. I would not be surprised to see him replaced with Gallant in the off-season.

Wut? Raz' angry face is ELITE. ELITE. You have no clue about hockey at all.

I'm glad Yzerman didn't give up anything to bring in a rental. If the team continues to be a dumpster fire and misses the playoffs, sure I wish he would've sold in retrospect. But it didn't look like the best option at the time.

You obviously know nothing about dumpster fires. Stevie should have brought in more garbage to make the fire bigger, hotter, and brighter. He could have built an epic dumpster fire, but instead all we get is a freakin' patch.

 

[RedWingzz]

I don't get this "Yzerman sold the team out by not doing anything at the trade deadline" thing.

I interpreted that as a huge endorsement for Yzerman. "OK, you guys are kicking ass. No one knows exactly how or why, but this team has some magic. I'm not going to mess with it and trust you guys to keep it going." And then the team went to shit. So, who knows.

Yzerman full on knew the extent of the Larkin injury. The 2 weeks they told fans was more realistically 3 weeks, and they knew it. If he didnt wanna sell at the deadline, fine, but at that point he should have brought in a couple reinforcements, considering Larkin was out.

I know in hindsight it's easy to point fingers, but obviously, the decision to neither buy or sell wasn't the correct one. I honestly believe Yzerman himself wasnt sure if he wanted to buy or sell, probably went back in forth in his mind entertaining both concepts, thus deciding on doing nothing.

Also his comment about not needing to add players because he liked the players available in GR...well that looked like a flat out lie to the fans, where are these players he was speaking of? I knew when he made that comment, he just made it to say something, but like, put your money where your mouth is and call up some kids....like you said you would. Is he waiting for game 80 when we are officially dead?

 

[DanielMarois]

I think they still have a decent shot at the playoffs, mostly because the teams chasing them suck too, but I don't understand this "this is still a rebuilding team". It's year 5 and they have a lot of vets and their #1C is in his prime plus they don't have many top level prospects.

 

[14ari13]

Arizona was by far the NHL-worst team from last 25 games.

And they did lose them twice, without getting a single point.

At earlier in the season, San Jose was NHL-worst team and they lost for them. Then they lost for Montreal. Abysmal Ottawa was hard to beat.

On December, Anaheim was probably the NHL-worst team and they lost for them at home.

Where does that arrogance come from?

It's OK for me if you lose for strong teams, and surprise some of them, here and there at this point of era, when you are not a real contender. Real contenders lose too for poor teams, because they are so good that they can play with the result in non-interesting games.

But for this team...? Which is battling for the playoffs and those easiest points should be easiest to take, just doing your job well.

It doesn't take anything else. Something is mentally wrong.

Arrogance and overconfidence built on the wrong premise.
They beat some good teams and blew away blues, caps, flames and flyers outscoring them 22 to 4. Obviously they thought they were great.
They started playing this cute and fancy hockey they remotely had the talent a d the skills to play. So they got their asses handed to them.

I don't get this "Yzerman sold the team out by not doing anything at the trade deadline" thing.

I interpreted that as a huge endorsement for Yzerman. "OK, you guys are kicking ass. No one knows exactly how or why, but this team has some magic. I'm not going to mess with it and trust you guys to keep it going." And then the team went to shit. So, who knows.

I believe he didn't see anything worth to trade for and the prices were so low he didn't see the point to sell.

Berggren practicing as 13th forward

I’m done

Good. He showed nothing but turning the puck over and creating the odd man rushes.

Yzerman full on knew the extent of the Larkin injury. The 2 weeks they told fans was more realistically 3 weeks, and they knew it. If he didnt wanna sell at the deadline, fine, but at that point he should have brought in a couple reinforcements, considering Larkin was out.

I know in hindsight it's easy to point fingers, but obviously, the decision to neither buy or sell wasn't the correct one. I honestly believe Yzerman himself wasnt sure if he wanted to buy or sell, probably went back in forth in his mind entertaining both concepts, thus deciding on doing nothing.

Also his comment about not needing to add players because he liked the players available in GR...well that looked like a flat out lie to the fans, where are these players he was speaking of? I knew when he made that comment, he just made it to say something, but like, put your money where your mouth is and call up some kids....like you said you would. Is he waiting for game 80 when we are officially dead?

Yzerman should have known better.
Our team was underachieving because our goaltending was weak or weakish, not good. The team needed solid goaltending. Husso and Reimer didn't provide solid goaltending.
Then Husso got injured and Lyon played outstanding carrying the team.
Yzerman and Lalonde should have known that it was dangerous as they could not rely on Lyon's red hot goaltending.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

so he should have sold?

traded Perron and Ghost and Fischer and Kane for picks?

No. Leave the vets around for leadership..that was the whole point of Stevie signing UFA's anyways. Hopefully scrape into playoffs on merit of the original roster. But certainly don't spend assets when the team has little shot of getting past the first round.

 

[norrisnick]

No. Leave the vets around for leadership..that was the whole point of Stevie signing UFA's anyways. Hopefully scrape into playoffs on merit of the original roster. But certainly don't spend assets when the team has little shot of getting past the first round.

Um... What leadership? In Larkin's absence it is the two youngest leading the charge.

 

[JoesuffP]

I think the book is out on how to play the wings. Teams are starting to care to scout teams and game plan at this time of the season and know to get the puck behind their defense and be physical and watch them crumble

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Um... What leadership? In Larkin's absence it is the two youngest leading the charge.

This might be a silver lining going forward.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

I think the book is out on how to play the wings. Teams are starting to care to scout teams and game plan at this time of the season and know to get the puck behind their defense and be physical and watch them crumble

The book starts and ends with "speed kills". Getting out skated by damn near every team we've played since December.

 

[OneMoreTry]

This might be a silver lining going forward.

Only, if management sees it and stops surrounding them with old guys for that one "reason" only - being old.

Mo and Ray need "veterans" in terms of showing them things that make them actually better players. What else is "veteran leadership" supposed to be? Yelling in the locker room? Picking the restaurants on road trips? WTF.

You need leadership by example, and that is usually a combination of will, skill and work ethic. I have no idea what our youngsters could learn from Chiarot or Perron at this point (in either the youngsters careers or the elders)..

It just makes no f.. sense. Get quality players, and yes, they better be younger rather than older.

 

[SirloinUB]

I was watching games and 30 years trained eye told me that the team was good and winning for a good reason. What happens now is unexplainable. I'm not getting into details but gebrerally no one us playing to his abilities now.

That’s nice and all but it’s a fact that this team has given up more scoring chances and shots than they created.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Do the Sabres have anyone in the lineup playing their first NHL game? Just wanna know who else is gonna score today



Kane with a Datsyuk-like pickpocket, passes to Walman and Walman gives it right to Buffalo

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Nice to see Rasmussen actually hitting guys

 

[heyfolks]

For me the worst signing is still Holl. You have to take context into account regarding that article and remember the roster at the time. Yes they said he'd be the 2nd line center then but there's a reason Yzerman brought in Compher.

Copp is Zadina-level inept when it comes to offense, but he is defensively responsible and key on faceoffs and PK. To be clear, it's not that I think Copp is great but the biggest problem this team has had most of the year is keeping the puck out of their own net, not scoring.

In the list of issues with the roster, he's not near the top for me.

I do not disagree Holl is the worst player on the roster. Three-year contract with an average annual value of $3.4 million isn't one any team will pick up. He'll be bought out in the summer. I also agree Copp offers "more" but boy are we talking shades of incompetence. Copp is Abby 2.0. Career year, big deal.... thud. He's a 4th line $1.5M player.