GDT: Game 65: Avs @ Wild | Tuesday, March 1st, 6pm MT |18 and Counting part 2...yes part 2

[Mules]

I'm normally a negative type person, so it's hard for me to pick up the pom-poms and try to raise morale.
But I think we still have a damn good shot at the playoffs, and I won't be surprised to see us in at the end of the regular season.

Yup, I feel the same. Its been a fun year, and at least the Avs are still playing for something.

 

[Iceberg]

So do I. I've been saying that making the playoffs rests on their shoulders. The window dressing of marginal upgrades isn't what's important. It's can they get the job done or not, that's still the case. If those 6 players aren't giving their best then there is no way this team makes the playoffs. Do they need Sakic to buy them some new toys to get that they have to carry this team?

Its about getting them help, its about putting them on a better position to succed.

Everybody agreeded that Tanguay was dragging us down.

And they did it without giving up our biggest long term assets.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Its about getting them help, its about putting them on a better position to succed.

Everybody agreeded that Tanguay was dragging us down.

And they did it without giving up our biggest long term assets.

That's fine if you think they are done building, don't need anything more than just a couple little things to get them over the hump.

 

[Hesher]

I expected them to lose this one so I'm not surprised but I thought they played well apart from those 10 minutes in the 1st.

The way they played in the 2nd is the way this team needs to play in order to be successfull.

 

[InjuredChoker]

is anyone against pairing bigras with barrie?

then have the 2 idiots on bottom pairing to play 10-13 minutes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

is anyone against pairing bigras with barrie?

then have the 2 idiots on bottom pairing to play 10-13 minutes.

It would be phenomenal.

 

[Iceberg]

That's fine if you think they are done building, don't need anything more than just a couple little things to get them over the hump.

We'll not agree on this buildin. Imo, you are putting way too much stock on the pieces we traded away.

I don't believe they are done building and that is why i'm relieved they kept all their top prospects.

 

[henchman21]

is anyone against pairing bigras with barrie?

Nope... But I'd rather pair up Bigras with EJ and FB with Barrie though. Then swap around in certain situations.

 

[Iceberg]

is anyone against pairing bigras with barrie?

then have the 2 idiots on bottom pairing to play 10-13 minutes.

I'm not, i think he actually deserves it.

But a Holden-Gelinas pairing would be a nightmare.

 

[ABasin]

They are not rebuilding.

Yes, they traded ROR for prospects and picks

Confusing, isn't it?

 

[tigervixxxen]

We'll not agree on this buildin. Imo, you are putting way too much stock on the pieces we traded away.

I don't believe they are done building and that is why i'm relieved they kept all their top prospects.

It's not about the particular pieces, it's about the philosophy. Yes they kept their most important pieces but it's not like they got superstar rentals either. The whole thought that they were going to build a deep system, they were going to be a Detroit or a Tampa system blah blah just isn't true. Roy said today that they had to make the moves to show the fans that making the playoffs is important. How about building a strong team, that would show the fans too. I'm not going to keep going on and on about it, there's all kinds of perceptions and ideas on how to build a team. I thought they brought in a new vision but they really haven't. If that doesn't bother people that's ok, it just says something to me and what I take from it.

 

[Avs44]

They are not rebuilding. Maybe they should, but they are not.

Yes, they traded ROR (dumb, imo) for prospects and picks but they also went and signed Soderberg and Beauchemin, they also re-signed EJ to a big long term extension.

So if they are not rebuilding, then are they building this club off of the failure that was the 2009 rebuild...? It's been 7 years since we started that rebuild. Since then, we have two 1st round exits (and one was in the midst of it) and a pile of mediocrity to show for it - and we've seen utter stagnation for the past 3 seasons. That's what we're building off of?


If they were not kickstarting a rebuild of some sort (retool, whatever you want to call it), and then intention all along was to compete since they thought the team was ready, then how worried should we be that our management is NOT rebuilding yet traded a 1st liner for picks/prospects? Going back to what Joem said about lack of a plan...where exactly IS this team going? As TV just said above, are we building a Tampa Bay type of system with a deep prospect pool that continually replenishes the team (what I thought they were going for this off-season, starting with the ROR trade and continuing with trading back for more picks), or are we in a desperate 'win now' mode and just going to pray it all works out with a core that's been stagnating??

 

[airqualf]

i still can't watch the last wild goal without slamming my head against the wall. what a pass by skille, what a defensive effort by mitchell and what a...what by holden. absolutely terrible! after the nice comeback in the second period and the good penalty killing...

 

[ABasin]

It's not about the particular pieces, it's about the philosophy. Yes they kept their most important pieces but it's not like they got superstar rentals either. The whole thought that they were going to build a deep system, they were going to be a Detroit or a Tampa system blah blah just isn't true.

Well done, TV. Perfect.

Roy said today that they had to make the moves to show the fans that making the playoffs is important.

They are putting aside the above notion (build a deep system, etc) in return for a couple of home playoff games. Again.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

They got the best rental out there and gave up very little in terms of future value to get it. Dater (Yes, Dater) said it best in his article. They've made the playoffs once in the last 6 years. They aren't ok telling the fans "ahh shucks we missed the playoffs again but we're rebuilding and will be better next year". Matt Duchene for example is in his 7th NHL season.

Do they think Boedker is going to win them a cup? No
Do they think he will improve their chances of making the playoffs? Yes

Of course there's a difference of opinion between many people. There are with many discussions. To me the risk involved with potentially missing the playoffs AND losing Boedker (which is the worst case scenario) is well worth a late 2nd when you consider the positives that come with it. I don't expect anybody on hfboards where 2nd and 3rd round picks are worth the world to agree with me but that's how I feel and that opinion wont change.

Just a simple increased chance of making the playoffs is well worth the 53rd overall pick to me as an Avalanche fan. Things such as actually making the playoffs and Beodker signing an extension is just gravy for me.

 

[ABasin]

They got the best rental out there and gave up very little in terms of future value to get it. Dater (Yes, Dater) said it best in his article. They've made the playoffs once in the last 6 years. They aren't ok telling the fans "ahh shucks we missed the playoffs again but we're rebuilding and will be better next year". Matt Duchene for example is in his 7th NHL season.

Exactly. The 2009 rebuild failed and they don't want to say it (I'm starting to wonder whether they even know it), but it's true. They're going to be faced with the fact at some point: that said failure is already overwhelmingly obvious to a number of fans, but even the part-time fans and raging homers are going to be faced with the undeniable truth in the not too distant future.

If they're not honest about where the team/organization is - right here, right now in 2016 - what hope is there?

 

[Avs44]

They got the best rental out there and gave up very little in terms of future value to get it. Dater (Yes, Dater) said it best in his article. They've made the playoffs once in the last 6 years. They aren't ok telling the fans "ahh shucks we missed the playoffs again but we're rebuilding and will be better next year". Matt Duchene for example is in his 7th NHL season.

Do they think Boedker is going to win them a cup? No
Do they think he will improve their chances of making the playoffs? Yes

Of course there's a difference of opinion between many people. There are with many discussions. To me the risk involved with potentially missing the playoffs AND losing Boedker (which is the worst case scenario) is well worth a late 2nd when you consider the positives that come with it. I don't expect anybody on hfboards where 2nd and 3rd round picks are worth the world to agree with me but that's how I feel and that opinion wont change.

Just a simple increased chance of making the playoffs is well worth the 53rd overall pick to me as an Avalanche fan. Things such as actually making the playoffs and Beodker signing an extension is just gravy for me.

It's funny. I justified keeping Stastny during 2013-2014 for the exact same reason. It was about proving to the team that we wanted to win, it was about getting our young players valuable playoff experience, and it was about proving to a disillusioned fanbase that times were going to change and we were going to be serious about the playoffs. I justified losing Stastny by saying the 2nd round pick+prospect we could have gotten for him did not outweigh the benefits of keeping Stastny and the psychological message / impact that would have on players and fans.


How did that one work out? As a fan, do I feel...happier, right now? No. Did the players really benefit from that run? No, they've completely stagnated. Did the players get a psychological boost from seeing this team was serious about winning? No, they've completely stagnated.


I'm afraid I've already gone through what several of you guys are doing right now to justify the deals they've made, and I've already seen how it turns out.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It's funny. I justified keeping Stastny during 2013-2014 for the exact same reason. It was about proving to the team that we wanted to win, it was about getting our young players valuable playoff experience, and it was about proving to a disillusioned fanbase that times were going to change and we were going to be serious about the playoffs. I justified losing Stastny by saying the 2nd round pick+prospect we could have gotten for him did not outweigh the benefits of keeping Stastny and the psychological message / impact that would have on players and fans.


How did that one work out? As a fan, do I feel...happier, right now? No. Did the players really benefit from that run? No, they've completely stagnated. Did the players get a psychological boost from seeing this team was serious about winning? No, they've completely stagnated.


I'm afraid I've already gone through what several of you guys are doing right now to justify the deals they've made, and I've already seen how it turns out.

I defended that move then and still defend it today. We wouldn't have a division banner and we wouldn't have gotten to witness that series being as deep as it was without Staz. What an embarrassment it would be for a team fighting for a division title to sell off arguably their 2nd best player for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick. How would that look to the fans and more importantly the rest of the team.

 

[henchman21]

I'd actually argue the opposite on the 2014 deadline. The Avs should have tried to make a move to solidify the defense on the team. Hindsight is 20/20 there, but they could have won the Wild series if Barrie didn't get injured anyway, but give the Avs a better defense during that series, they probably walk away with that series. Then push in the 2nd round. I don't think they would have won that round, but instead of 7 games of playoffs... we are probably looking at 12-13.

 

[tigervixxxen]

This whole increased chance is also what I don't get. It's not like the moves come with a money back guarantee. Nobody is coming back from the future saying oh they definitely make the playoffs now. Who can even quantify what extra chance say Boedker gives them vs. even Rantanen, who they didn't even try for free before making a move vs. MacKinnon scoring more than once every couple of weeks. There's so many things that go into a game it's very difficult to say what does it doesn't help.

And it's true it's going to be tough to say every year sorry fans better luck next year. And part of that is what some folks have been saying, they never fully reset and accepted the rebuild and communicated that to the fanbase. They never sold off and started over. now they have a collection of core talent that's supposed to do something but they have to keep selling to fill in around them. It's a never ending cycle. Every bit you give today is what you don't have to give tomorrow. It's might not be big but it keeps adding up.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

This place is toxic. See ya down the road I guess

 

[madman]

^^^^ what Lt. Dangle said.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

This whole increased chance is also what I don't get. It's not like the moves come with a money back guarantee. Nobody is coming back from the future saying oh they definitely make the playoffs now. Who can even quantify what extra chance say Boedker gives them vs. even Rantanen, who they didn't even try for free before making a move vs. MacKinnon scoring more than once every couple of weeks. There's so many things that go into a game it's very difficult to say what does it doesn't help.

And it's true it's going to be tough to say every year sorry fans better luck next year. And part of that is what some folks have been saying, they never fully reset and accepted the rebuild and communicated that to the fanbase. They never sold off and started over. now they have a collection of core talent that's supposed to do something but they have to keep selling to fill in around them. It's a never ending cycle. Every bit you give today is what you don't have to give tomorrow. It's might not be big but it keeps adding up.

How do you not get that Boedker increases their playoff chances. He's significantly better than Tanguay. If Boedker who was the best forward rental option available can't increase the chances of a team who was in a wild card spot at the time in making the playoffs does that also mean he couldn't help help a contender win the cup. If A guy like Boedker can't improve a team why would rentals even be a thing. The fact is that Boedker does improve the team significantly and because of that their playoff chances are improved. You must see that.

And hey I'm on board with Rantanen but he clearly isn't an option for management. They have other plans for him which we can't change.

 

[henchman21]

This place is toxic. See ya down the road I guess

Honestly... it has been for a long while. It kills me because I love coming here, but there are days where I feel my time is better spent elsewhere. I took a break for personal reasons and came back under the excitement of the deadline and stadium series... I'll probably take a break again if this is what we have to look forward to for the rest of the season.

 

[Ncit3]

It's not about the particular pieces, it's about the philosophy. Yes they kept their most important pieces but it's not like they got superstar rentals either. The whole thought that they were going to build a deep system, they were going to be a Detroit or a Tampa system blah blah just isn't true. Roy said today that they had to make the moves to show the fans that making the playoffs is important. How about building a strong team, that would show the fans too. I'm not going to keep going on and on about it, there's all kinds of perceptions and ideas on how to build a team. I thought they brought in a new vision but they really haven't. If that doesn't bother people that's ok, it just says something to me and what I take from it.

A Detroit system? The Red Wings cupboards are just as bare as ours. The difference is our young guys are playing in the NHL. Detroit has Larkin and Atha playing in the NHL right now and maybe a couple of guys in Svechnikov and Mantha sitting in the wings.

Their system is terrible outside of 4-5 players. Sounds an awful lot like the Avalanche.