GDT: Game 58: Columbus vs. Nashville | 2/19 6PM

[major major]

I personally was complaining about Joey's effort for years - it didn't start with one bad stretch where he was scapegoated.

We also had threads in consecutive years to speculate on what medical condition he might have (I think it was lupus ).

He was 34th, 16th and 41st in league scoring over the past 3 seasons. He made Nick Foligno a top 10 NHL scorer one season. There is not a single player on the CBJ roster who will match this performance over the next three years.

Watch it happen.

Foligno also outscored Joey that year and is outscoring him this year. More importantly the numbers show Joey relied on him not the other way around. Those two were each others most common linemate over several years so we have plenty of data on this: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=119&withagainst=true&season=2013-15&sit=5v5

Joey was poor without Foligno, Foligno was better without Joey. Get it straight ffs!

 

[major major]

Maybe the CBJ should do a tribute to all 23 of our players before every home game - because most of our guys played like crap too. Maybe they were pouting?
Ry Jo is what he is. He's never been an effort guy. But he's not like Carter who quit here and his effort picked up after he left. He wasn't like Nash or Foote who asked to be traded.
Despite how most feel he's a top 30 C in the NHL. Granted Wenneberg is very close to him so he's been replaced very nicely. But he is not a bad player that some make him out to be. He's just not an effort guy and there are players like that.
And contract negotiations are typically handled in an more adult like manner. Both sides are at fault here. it's not just RyJo and his agent and not just Jarmo & CBJ. Both sides played it badly. Doesn't matter who started it, I'm hopeful they both learned a lesson.

JD has already said as much - that he and Jarmo should have kept their frustrations private, and that Joey's not a bad guy. I'm sure it's a lot easier for them to feel that way now that the organizational success doesn't depend on Joey's work ethic.

 

[Halfboard]

No shakeup required. This is more inline with the expectations at the beginning of the season. We have some young players that haven't been in this position before.

As far as any of the vets underperforming; we didn't do anything last season not sure why we would expect anything different this season.

Werenski is just what the doctor ordered around here.

Talk of Torts losing the room. Just last month he was leading the coach of the year candidates. Get real people; not sure if you listen to yourselves.

there you go again, interjecting logic & stuff...........

 

[EspenK]

Little picture: The team had a let down after a big win against the Pens, and lost to a team fighting for one of the final two play-off spots in the West.

Big picture: Pens win aside, the CBJ are squandering their seven game home stand, going 3-3 thus far, and losing to teams they should be able to beat. Prior to the Caps vs Redwings game only something like two teams had won a game coming off of their bye week. The Caps lost that night in a SO. Will the CBJ be able to buck that trend? If not, they will be sub .500 on their longest home stand of the year.

Bigger Picture: The team has been essentially a .500 team since the streak ended. That is a fact. Keep it up for the remainder of the season and its most likely a one and done in the playoffs.

 

[Monk]

JD has already said as much - that he and Jarmo should have kept their frustrations private, and that Joey's not a bad guy. I'm sure it's a lot easier for them to feel that way now that the organizational success doesn't depend on Joey's work ethic.

Pretty much this.

At the end of the day, they replaced a talented but lazy player with an arguably more talented and hardworking player. They happened to **** off the lazy guy in the process. I guess he's still salty that he didn't get what he wanted, and he still isn't getting what he wants from CBJ. That really doesn't bother me.

Don't even really have hard feelings, I don't hate the guy. He served his purpose and we're a better team now for it.

 

[MAHJ71]

Well, I mean Wisniewski got one and Johansen was here longer.

Was Wiz constantly questioned on his effort? Did his agent act like an idiot? Did Wiz constantly loaf every shift?

The answers are no.

Joey didn't deserve a damn video and the fact he whined about it tells EVERYONE who he really is.

 

[EDM]

CBJsixtysix, I agree 100 %.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I personally was complaining about Joey's effort for years - it didn't start with one bad stretch where he was scapegoated.

We also had threads in consecutive years to speculate on what medical condition he might have (I think it was lupus ).



Watch it happen.

Foligno also outscored Joey that year and is outscoring him this year. More importantly the numbers show Joey relied on him not the other way around. Those two were each others most common linemate over several years so we have plenty of data on this: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=119&withagainst=true&season=2013-15&sit=5v5

Joey was poor without Foligno, Foligno was better without Joey. Get it straight ffs!

Give it a rest. The notion that Johansen was "poor" in any context is patently absurd. Your "effort detector" isn't very sound either. ffs!!

If you think Wennberg will ever be a top 15 scorer in this league, you're drunk or delusional. Or both. There's no other candidate on the roster.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Bigger Picture: The team has been essentially a .500 team since the streak ended. That is a fact. Keep it up for the remainder of the season and its most likely a one and done in the playoffs.

I've shifted gears on my "all is well" stance.

This team won't win a round this season. It's a team of average to slightly above players which happened to go through a once-in-a-lifetime streak. Eliminate the fluke and there's a .500 team (21-16-5=21-21) underneath. Cam Atkinson is the only standout on offense. Saad's stats were generated early and he's done little for a long time. Wennberg's "pass first" play is so predictable that a well coached team will shut him down in the playoffs. Hartnell is playing like he's a beat up 34 year old. Dubinsky is a 40-45 point producer. Jenner got lucky last year. Gagne's carriage has turned into a Pumpkin. He looks like a ripoff at $650,000 now.

The PDO, which was completely unsustainable at nearly 1.04, has been reduced to 1.023 and is regressing rapidly toward the 1.00 mean. The "luck" of the early season shooting and save percentages has evaporated and the harsh reality of the law of averages is now the rule for the CBJ. I expect that this reality will continue.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/team-pdo-numbers-save-plus-shooting-percentage/2016/


The lack of a true first line is going to kill this team come playoff time. The defense has played over its head for most of the year and is now regressing to its true abilities. While Werenski and Jones give the defense a 1/2 offensive punch that it's lacked for forever, neither is anything to write home about defensively. The youth and inexperience of these two will get exposed at crunch time.

Jack Johnson is a career minus machine and will regress to his norm in due time. Savard is ok, not much better. Murray is an average defenseman whose draft status creates perceptions that he's far better than he really is. With all due respect to Howson, 2012 is going to turn out to be the weakest draft in the 2000s (at least so far as round 1 was concerned), so there wasn't much there to be had. The rest of the defense is spare parts.

Bob is an unproven playoff commodity and who knows how he'll perform this April. If he doesn't stand on his head it's "one and done" for sure.

It was a fun run, but it's over. The notion that the CBJ can compete when it counts with a Washington, Pittsburgh or Chicago is fanciful. Torts has done an exceptional job with an unexceptional group. The Lightning in a Bottle of The Streak will be looked back as the all time high point of this squad. It's likely that the team which was being touted as a President's Cup contender will have to settle for a wild card berth in the playoffs. The smart money won't be on the CBJ this playoff season.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

I've shifted gears on my "all is well" stance.

This team won't win a round this season. It's a team of average to slightly above players which happened to go through a once-in-a-lifetime streak. Eliminate the fluke and there's a .500 team (21-16-5=21-21) underneath. Cam Atkinson is the only standout on offense. Saad's stats were generated early and he's done little for a long time. Wennberg's "pass first" play is so predictable that a well coached team will shut him down in the playoffs.

The PDO, which was completely unsustainable at nearly 1.04, has been reduced to 1.023 and is regressing rapidly toward the 1.00 mean. The "luck" of the early season shooting and save percentages has evaporated and the harsh reality of the law of averages is now the rule for the CBJ. I expect that this reality will continue.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/team-pdo-numbers-save-plus-shooting-percentage/2016/


The lack of a true first line is going to kill this team come playoff time. The defense has played over its head for most of the year and is now regressing to its true abilities. While Werenski and Jones give the defense a 1/2 offensive punch that it's lacked for forever, neither is anything to write home about defensively. The youth and inexperience of these two will get exposed at crunch time.

Jack Johnson is a career minus machine and will regress to his norm in due time. Savard is ok, not much better. Murray is an average defenseman whose draft status creates perceptions that he's far better than he really is. With all due respect to Howson, 2012 is going to turn out to be the weakest draft in the 2000s (at least so far as round 1 was concerned), so there wasn't much there to be had. The rest of the defense is spare parts.

Bob is an unproven playoff commodity and who knows how he'll perform this April. If he doesn't stand on his head it's "one and done" for sure.

It was a fun run, but it's over. The notion that the CBJ can compete when it counts with a Washington, Pittsburgh or Chicago is fanciful. Torts has done an exceptional job with an unexceptional group. The Lightning in a Bottle of The Streak will be looked back as the all time high point of this squad. It's likely that the team which was being touted as a President's Cup contender will have to settle for a wild card berth in the playoffs. The smart money won't be on the CBJ this playoff season.

Wyshynski, is that you?

 

[Nordique]

It was a fun run, but it's over. The notion that the CBJ can compete when it counts with a Washington, Pittsburgh or Chicago is fanciful. Torts has done an exceptional job with an unexceptional group. The Lightning in a Bottle of The Streak will be looked back as the all time high point of this squad. It's likely that the team which was being touted as a President's Cup contender will have to settle for a wild card berth in the playoffs. The smart money won't be on the CBJ this playoff season.

Toss in Minn too, and we are 6-1-1 vs that group of teams.

I understand the frustration, but stick it out and see what happens.

Once you make the playoffs, anything can happen. This team is young and inconsistent, but they have a knack for raising their level of play vs top teams.

 

[Monk]

Give it a rest. The notion that Johansen was "poor" in any context is patently absurd. Your "effort detector" isn't very sound either. ffs!!

If you think Wennberg will ever be a top 15 scorer in this league, you're drunk or delusional. Or both. There's no other candidate on the roster.

I think "poor [compared to how great he could be if he tried]" is an accurate assessment.

 

[major major]

Give it a rest. The notion that Johansen was "poor" in any context is patently absurd. Your "effort detector" isn't very sound either. ffs!!
.

Okay, how do you explain the numbers? Over their last two full seasons together (huge sample size), when they spent about 60% of their ice time together, here are their goals for and goals against numbers:

Johansen and Foligno together - For 2.81, Against 2.43
Johansen without Foligno - For 2.18, Against 2.59
Foligno without Johansen - For 3.26, Against 2.36

This is the record. If you think it's misleading you should have some inkling why, rather than just saying "BS".

If you think Wennberg will ever be a top 15 scorer in this league, you're drunk or delusional. Or both. There's no other candidate on the roster.

As for Wennberg, you're the guy who called me delusional for saying he'd be a 60 pt / Krejci level player. He's on track to hit that with weeks to spare.

Joey's top 15 season was 71 pts. Wennberg is on pace right now for 68 pts. And he's 22, meaning it's unlikely this will be his peak. And Cam is on pace to hit Johansen's 71 pts. You sure none of them will ever be top 15?

I think it's clear who the delusional one is.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Was Wiz constantly questioned on his effort? Did his agent act like an idiot? Did Wiz constantly loaf every shift?

The answers are no.

Joey didn't deserve a damn video and the fact he whined about it tells EVERYONE who he really is.

Did Rick Nash deserve one? Because if that's the criteria, and not on ice performance, then the answer should be no.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I hope that they at least sent him a fruit basket or a card or something.

 

[Monk]

Did Rick Nash deserve one? Because if that's the criteria, and not on ice performance, then the answer should be no.

I think comparing their situations despite a few similarities is silly.

 

[Columbus Mike]

Poor Johansen.

The troll in me hopes there's a tribute to Chimera on Saturday, just for some salt in the wound.

 

[SuperGenius]

Bigger Picture: The team has been essentially a .500 team since the streak ended. That is a fact. Keep it up for the remainder of the season and its most likely a one and done in the playoffs.

This team was 1.000 for 16 games. Keep it up for the remainder of the season and they will win the cup.

Both statements are silly.

 

[SuperGenius]

Poor Johansen.

The troll in me hopes there's a tribute to Chimera on Saturday, just for some salt in the wound.

Maybe a ceremonial offsides or something?

 

[SuperGenius]

I've shifted gears on my "all is well" stance.
<snip>

Well, I guess we'll see you in September. No sense watching the rest of this season I guess.

 

[major major]

Maybe a ceremonial offsides or something?

Really, was it Chimmer's fault he never knew where the blue line was? There's one guy you can't complain about him not skating hard enough.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I think comparing their situations despite a few similarities is silly.

Well, people continually compare their on ice demeanor despite a few similarities and I find it silly too.

 

[Monk]

Well, people continually compare their on ice demeanor despite a few similarities and I find it silly too.

Their on-ice demeanor is comparable. What they contributed to the organization is not. It's that contribution, I have to believe, that determines whether or not someone gets a "tribute."

The fact that Johansen whined about it only reinforces how a lot of folks here about him.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Their on-ice demeanor is comparable. What they contributed to the organization is not. It's that contribution, I have to believe, that determines whether or not someone gets a "tribute."

The fact that Johansen whined about it only reinforces how a lot of folks here about him.

Then why did James Wisniewski get one?

We need a definition of whining, because it certainly doesn't relate to this.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Why is this still being discussed lol