You're right that there does seem to be multiple criteria at play here. But the "he's a warrior" criteria applied well to Wiz. The guys career is over largely thanks to injuries he sustained fighting for this team.
GDT: Game 58: Columbus vs. Nashville | 2/19 6PM
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You're right that there does seem to be multiple criteria at play here. But the "he's a warrior" criteria applied well to Wiz. The guys career is over largely thanks to injuries he sustained fighting for this team.
I dunno man, maybe the guy who makes that decision has changed between now and then.
I would call complaining about it to the media whining, but maybe that's just me.
Johansen2Foligno
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Cyclones Rock
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Don't have time to address point #1. I'll need to analyze Johansen with other players as well as Foligno with other players. I will note that Johansen is 20th (out of 726 players) in CF% this season. The notion that he is a "poor player" is, well, absurd.
https://puckalytics.com/#/skaters?T...layer_Name=&Pos=&sortorder=true&orderby=CFPct
When Atkinson or Wennberg have 3 years of rankings in NHL scoring as high as Johansen (16/34/41) has, then I'd appreciate you getting back to me. Johansen led the Jackets in scoring once and led Nashville in his time there last year and is leading them this year. When Wennberg leads his team in scoring get back to me on that as well.
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Nope its not just you... its actually about 99.9% of others who also realize that complaining about a lack of tribute video to the media is indeed whining...
poor
1. having little or no money, goods, or other means of support: a poor family living on welfare.
2. Law. dependent upon charity or public support.
3. (of a country, institution, etc.) meagerly supplied or endowed with resources or funds.
4. characterized by or showing poverty.
5. deficient or lacking in something specified: a hockey player poor in resolve.
6. faulty or inferior, as in construction: poor workmanship.
7. deficient in desirable ingredients, qualities, or the like: poor soil.
8. excessively lean or emaciated, as cattle.
9. of an inferior, inadequate, or unsatisfactory kind: poor effort.
10. lacking in skill, ability, or training: a poor cook.
11. deficient in moral excellence; cowardly, abject, or mean.
12. scanty, meager, or paltry in amount or number: a poor audience.
13. humble; modest: They shared their poor meal with a stranger.
14. unfortunate; hapless: The poor dog was limping.
1. having little or no money, goods, or other means of support: a poor family living on welfare.
2. Law. dependent upon charity or public support.
3. (of a country, institution, etc.) meagerly supplied or endowed with resources or funds.
4. characterized by or showing poverty.
5. deficient or lacking in something specified: a hockey player poor in resolve.
6. faulty or inferior, as in construction: poor workmanship.
7. deficient in desirable ingredients, qualities, or the like: poor soil.
8. excessively lean or emaciated, as cattle.
9. of an inferior, inadequate, or unsatisfactory kind: poor effort.
10. lacking in skill, ability, or training: a poor cook.
11. deficient in moral excellence; cowardly, abject, or mean.
12. scanty, meager, or paltry in amount or number: a poor audience.
13. humble; modest: They shared their poor meal with a stranger.
14. unfortunate; hapless: The poor dog was limping.
He can be disappointed, that's ok w me. And maybe he got asked that very question. So his reaction doesn't bother me much.
But I was disappointed in his effort and attitude while here for the most part.
So what does bother me is some reactions that CBJ should have put a tribute up.
Joey should not have been surprised by the lack of acknowledgement, especially a video. And frankly, good on CBJ not to put up a video - the reception it would have gotten, imo, would have shown Joey up. It would not have been pretty, regardless of whether the boos were deserved or not. Joey was not on par with Carter or Foote, but his lengthy perceived lack of effort (at outset of career and later) and his contract negotiations (him, agent, or both) do not have him in good stead with most CBJ fans. I know there are several on here think differently, and i would be the first to suggest that FO didn't handle the negotiations well either. My reason for no tribute is not out of pay back or vengence, but simply a read on CBJ fans as a whole. The perception among most of my colleagues and friends who are hockey fans is that Joey was "lazy, too talented not to be better, cocky, bad attitude, bad for the room...." If that's the general perception, then any tribute would have ended up a negative for the fans, for the organization and for Joey. In order of priority, I'd put the organization, then fans, ... and then Joey far down the list. He isn't a Jacket any longer, and that's probably good for all parties. And don't throw gasoline on a fire that is barely lit any longer. No animosity toward Joey, but move along. I was good with the acknowledgment of Boll - if nothing else he gave his face and brain to CBJ and the fans. Indifferent as to Tyutin - just the sheer number of years probably deserved a tribute. But recognizing every player who moves to another team should stop (I agree with the criticism that there should not have a been a tribute for Wiz, though I understand why).
Maybe that's my older generation telling on me, but you just don't give tributes to 4 1/2 season players with Joey's background with this team. Doesn't make Joey a bad guy - just means too many tributes across the league. But doing it just because other teams do ---- not a good enough reason. And no player worth his salt is worried about playing for the CBJ (or any other team) because of what tribute may or may not be forthcoming. A. They don't care that much at the moment. B. Exhibits Boll and Nash, among others, show that CBJ does the right thing.
But I was disappointed in his effort and attitude while here for the most part.
So what does bother me is some reactions that CBJ should have put a tribute up.
Joey should not have been surprised by the lack of acknowledgement, especially a video. And frankly, good on CBJ not to put up a video - the reception it would have gotten, imo, would have shown Joey up. It would not have been pretty, regardless of whether the boos were deserved or not. Joey was not on par with Carter or Foote, but his lengthy perceived lack of effort (at outset of career and later) and his contract negotiations (him, agent, or both) do not have him in good stead with most CBJ fans. I know there are several on here think differently, and i would be the first to suggest that FO didn't handle the negotiations well either. My reason for no tribute is not out of pay back or vengence, but simply a read on CBJ fans as a whole. The perception among most of my colleagues and friends who are hockey fans is that Joey was "lazy, too talented not to be better, cocky, bad attitude, bad for the room...." If that's the general perception, then any tribute would have ended up a negative for the fans, for the organization and for Joey. In order of priority, I'd put the organization, then fans, ... and then Joey far down the list. He isn't a Jacket any longer, and that's probably good for all parties. And don't throw gasoline on a fire that is barely lit any longer. No animosity toward Joey, but move along. I was good with the acknowledgment of Boll - if nothing else he gave his face and brain to CBJ and the fans. Indifferent as to Tyutin - just the sheer number of years probably deserved a tribute. But recognizing every player who moves to another team should stop (I agree with the criticism that there should not have a been a tribute for Wiz, though I understand why).
Maybe that's my older generation telling on me, but you just don't give tributes to 4 1/2 season players with Joey's background with this team. Doesn't make Joey a bad guy - just means too many tributes across the league. But doing it just because other teams do ---- not a good enough reason. And no player worth his salt is worried about playing for the CBJ (or any other team) because of what tribute may or may not be forthcoming. A. They don't care that much at the moment. B. Exhibits Boll and Nash, among others, show that CBJ does the right thing.
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My take on the Joey issue:
Good player, would be a top 6 six skater and contribute on this team. Wennberg is not yet the same level...yet.
However, this team is still better off with Jones on the back end that they would be with Johansen up front.
Good player, would be a top 6 six skater and contribute on this team. Wennberg is not yet the same level...yet.
However, this team is still better off with Jones on the back end that they would be with Johansen up front.
I'm surprised anyone would suggest that Joey's better than Wennberg this year. I don't know if that's what you mean to say. Since the trade I think Wennberg has been the better player. Did you mean peak Johansen? Well Wennberg's on a pace close to Joey's career high in pts. I'll let you make up your own mind which way the intangibles swing things.
KCbus
Registered User
KCbus
Registered User
193 points in 309 games. That's what Johansen did for us.
.62 points per game.
Bryan Berard did that for us, and he was a defenseman. Brandon Dubinsky averages higher, and he's largely a grit guy. Nik Zherdev had a higher average PPG, and he was considered a failure.
Ryan Johansen had one really good season with us. He had the potential to be a transformative player, but it didn't happen. He was a pretty decent player for a little while. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't earn an automatic tribute. It's stupid enough that when I first read about it an hour ago, I laughed out loud.
.62 points per game.
Bryan Berard did that for us, and he was a defenseman. Brandon Dubinsky averages higher, and he's largely a grit guy. Nik Zherdev had a higher average PPG, and he was considered a failure.
Ryan Johansen had one really good season with us. He had the potential to be a transformative player, but it didn't happen. He was a pretty decent player for a little while. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't earn an automatic tribute. It's stupid enough that when I first read about it an hour ago, I laughed out loud.
Wennberg imo hasn't reached 2014/15 Johansen level play yet. I think his ceiling is higher however.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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Ehhh, feels skeezy to include his development years, when he was 19 and 20, in his points average, and then compare it to older players.
You're right that the amount of time he was a top center for the Jackets was kind of small in terms of franchise history.
I mean... He's only 2 points behind Cam, whose having a career year. And Wennberg seems to score in bunches. I won't be surprised at all to see him fly by Cam in points.
Heinze 57
Registered User
The point is Wennberg's growth made Johansen expendable and we got Seth Jones out of it. I think it was Jarmo's best move to date. I'd rather have Jones and Wennberg than Johansen and Wennberg and no dman to fill the role Jones is currently thriving in.
Well said.
It's no coincidence imo that, built from the back out, this team is enjoying its best season to date.
I'm not sure many of us on here believed Wenny was any more than a 3rd line C at the time of the trade. I bet if you looked back at the thread (RyJo trade) not many thought Wenny was ready. It was a trade made to get rid of a player management had tired of and to strengthen a position of extreme weakness.
Old Guy
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I agree, it was a good deal. But my personal favorite was Hartnell>Umberger. And I think in time the Brandon Saad deal could be better than Johansen/Jones. Not arguing, just my personal opinion.
In fact, could you imagine the CBJ if Umberger were here finishing the last year on his contract?
I went back and read it for fun.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2008451&highlight=johansen+traded&page=9
It looks like at least a few people (like me) already had Wennberg marked as top six C.
That's part of why I was so baffled it took Porty until we were under way this season to stop calling him a 3C. Wennberg was very good (top six production) from December 2015 onward. The trade was soon after that began, on January 6th, so I don't fault anyone for their skepticism about our center situation (although the certainty that the team was doomed I will happily fault people for
.And to best answer your post - I think Jarmo was bullish on Wennberg all along.
That's pretty typical every GM likes their young players. I mean he was 100% right this time if he assumed Wenny was ready, but he was the same GM who said our top acquisition was a healthy Ryan Murray (point being that again a young player, GM liked and in that case he's been ok, but not a top line dman).
But reading the thread (part of it) showed me most of us assumed we had a center problem and either the hope was to win the lottery or convert Jenner. Definetely wasn't a lot of support that Wenny would be doing what he's doing, but it worked out very well.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I went back and read it for fun.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2008451&highlight=johansen+traded&page=9
...wow, I was really panicking. But I can at least take credit for seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, even if I didn't believe in it at the time.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
I went back and read it for fun.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2008451&highlight=johansen+traded&page=9
It looks like at least a few people (like me) already had Wennberg marked as top six C.
I had the post of the thread. Check page 32.
We Want Ten
Make Chinakov Great Again
...wow, I was really panicking. But I can at least take credit for seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, even if I didn't believe in it at the time.
That's completely understandable. The light at the end of a CBJ tunnel usually is a train coming at us.
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