GDT: Game #53 - 1.27.14 - vs Colorado - 7:30 PM - FS Southwest - 1310 AM - 96.7 FM

[FrailSwan]

BigG said he has 2 games left before he becomes waiver eligible.

Thanks man.

 

[glovesave_35]

BigG said he has 2 games left before he becomes waiver eligible.

The Olympic demotion rule trumps that though, right? As in, if he plays another game before the break he can't be sent down to the minors during the Olympics.

He really needs to go down. I didn't believe it early on in his struggles but it's clear now that he does. This Olympic break could be what he needs to get his game back on track. I wonder though, if he isn't sent down what should we make of that? Maybe they're still worried about him having lost all that weight/strength and want him to eat some steak and hit the gym for those two weeks.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

The Olympic demotion rule trumps that though, right? As in, if he plays another game before the break he can't be sent down to the minors during the Olympics.

He really needs to go down. I didn't believe it early on in his struggles but it's clear now that he does. This Olympic break could be what he needs to get his game back on track. I wonder though, if he isn't sent down what should we make of that? Maybe they're still worried about him having lost all that weight/strength and want him to eat some steak and hit the gym for those two weeks.

Correct.

If he plays against NJ on Thursday, he will be ineligible to play in the AHL over the Olympics. There will be only 9 games left after Thursday before the Olympic break, so even if he was sent down Thursday after the game, he wouldn't make the cut for the rule.

Honestly I'd be really worried if they don't send him down. Moreso for the waiver eligibility. Like BigG said, that's a bigger deal. You could make a real argument he could use the 2 weeks off to hit the gym and rest. That's debatable and honestly fine. But him losing waiver eligibility really would be a big danger for the flexibility of his development the rest of the season. He basically would be locked on the NHL roster for the rest of his career, conditioning stints aside. I don't know if he's earned that.

 

[Alistar]

The fact that they have at least a few competent defensemen might also help them keep more pucks out of their net than our guy does.

They also score more goals than we do. And have better center depth.

Colorado gets outshot by more than 3 per game. The only 3 teams in the league that get outshot by a wider margin are Buffalo, Edmonton, and Toronto (who are a similar doomed club to Colorado once the luck comes out). I'm sorry but when Calgary puts up more of a fight and keeps the shot clock closer than your team, it's a bad team.

It's amazing that when a team has bad luck goaltending everyone instantly starts calling it out, but when the goaltending is unsustainably good people find other things to attribute the success to. We've seen it before with Minnesota and Toronto where people talk about some magic defensive system that limits all good opposition scoring chances, or they'll talk about how gritty the team is and how they gut out wins even if they get *slightly* outplayed. These teams always fall apart in the end, and when it does nobody is going to be jealous of Colorado's depth at center. They are going to be laughing at how bad that team is and talking about how they should tear it apart and start over again.

 

[ck26]

Just got back from the game.

Was that the "normal" Erik Cole? He stood out as a big body with decent wheels who got stuff done in the offensive zone ... looked like the sort of powerplay slot guy teams will want to trade for here in a week or so, his salary notwithstanding. He has a lot of goals this year, but what have they looked like? Skillful snipe-y stuff or garbage goals in the slot?

I've gotten tired watching a defensive breakdown / weird bounce cost the Coyotes games this year, so it's only fitting it did the Stars tonight. Super impressed by how quickly the Stars get up and down the ice ... if you replace Gonchar with the 2007 version of Gonchar and replace Rome/Jordie with an NHL defenseman, this team will be scary.

Impressed by:
Benn/Seguin/Nuke
Cole
Roussel/Eakin/Garbutt ... what are they making? $1.6m total? Given their total lack of size/skill, they never seemed overwhelmed and generated some offense
Magnetic beers
In-game music ... I barely noticed it, which is a huge improvement over the obtrusive noise in PHX
The crowd downstairs for some random weeknight game against COL

Unimpressed by:
Whitney
Goligoski/Daley pair
The guy sitting next to me who both a) has a place in Scottsdale but has never been to a Coyotes game and b) has never seen Slapshot
The artificial "Let's go Stars" cheers ... how gross ...
The crowd upstairs for some random weeknight game against COL

 

[Hull Fan]

Goligoski on that 2nd goal was hilariously awful. Singlehandedly created that turnover.

Can Jordie finally be put back in the press box again?

Is there some reason lowbridging Eakin is cool but Roussel going after O'Reilly for it is not?

Unfortunately Kari wasn't as good as Varlamov. Chiasson absolutely should go back down. His continued power play time is baffling. Horcoff is less of a black hole and I didn't think that possible.

There's absolutely no reason to keep Whitney, Fiddler or Garbutt if a decent offer is on the table and Nill should start making calls to offer Daley and Goligoski to see what other GMs value them at.

I'm still not sure where I sit on the Eakin debate but good lord his motor is impressive and it seems like he is getting better about finding and actually using his teammates.

 

[Kalamazoo Wings]

Just got back from the game.

Was that the "normal" Erik Cole? He stood out as a big body with decent wheels who got stuff done in the offensive zone ... looked like the sort of powerplay slot guy teams will want to trade for here in a week or so, his salary notwithstanding. He has a lot of goals this year, but what have they looked like? Skillful snipe-y stuff or garbage goals in the slot?

He's had a mixed bag of types of goals. He started off extremely cold then he was moved to the left side and he started sniping. He always makes barging or driving moves toward the net and gets some uglies as a result. But he does possess a good shot and has had a number of 'snipes'. He tends to hang in the dirty areas, so more than a few laughable bounces have gone in off of him too... but they don't ask how, they ask how many.

The man does a bang up interview as well!

 

[txomisc]

Just got back from the game.

Was that the "normal" Erik Cole? He stood out as a big body with decent wheels who got stuff done in the offensive zone ... looked like the sort of powerplay slot guy teams will want to trade for here in a week or so, his salary notwithstanding. He has a lot of goals this year, but what have they looked like? Skillful snipe-y stuff or garbage goals in the slot?

That is the Erik Cole we have gotten for most of the year. He flat out sucked last season and to start this one, but he has really turned things around. I think he is the perfect non-rental type player that could really add speed and physicality to a team looking to make some playoff noise.

 

[glovesave_35]

Colorado gets outshot by more than 3 per game. The only 3 teams in the league that get outshot by a wider margin are Buffalo, Edmonton, and Toronto (who are a similar doomed club to Colorado once the luck comes out). I'm sorry but when Calgary puts up more of a fight and keeps the shot clock closer than your team, it's a bad team.

It's amazing that when a team has bad luck goaltending everyone instantly starts calling it out, but when the goaltending is unsustainably good people find other things to attribute the success to. We've seen it before with Minnesota and Toronto where people talk about some magic defensive system that limits all good opposition scoring chances, or they'll talk about how gritty the team is and how they gut out wins even if they get *slightly* outplayed. These teams always fall apart in the end, and when it does nobody is going to be jealous of Colorado's depth at center. They are going to be laughing at how bad that team is and talking about how they should tear it apart and start over again.

I'm not saying that they don't depend a great deal on a goaltender playing great. I just don't think the end all be all difference between the Avs and the Stars is that their goalie has stopped 10% more shots than our's.

Besides all of that, the fact is that the Avs do have a goalie playing great and has played great all year. You can belly-ache about how many shots they've given up but he's something like 19-2-3 in games of 30+ shots against. 7 of his 9 losses have been in games with fewer than 30 shots. I know what you're going to say about "the numbers!" but at least this year this goalie is doing better when he sees more rubber.

Top to bottom this Avs team has every right to be considered better than us. I'm not sure why we're trying to compare rosters sans goalies but even if you do they have the upper hand (easily).

 

[glovesave_35]

That is the Erik Cole we have gotten for most of the year. He flat out sucked last season and to start this one, but he has really turned things around. I think he is the perfect non-rental type player that could really add speed and physicality to a team looking to make some playoff noise.

He's playing well enough now that I don't want to see him moved unless it's a really good hockey deal. Early in the season I just wanted him gone.

 

[Hull Fan]

He's playing well enough now that I don't want to see him moved unless it's a really good hockey deal. Early in the season I just wanted him gone.

See this is why I'm kinda torn on him. Cole should only be moved in a good trade but part of me worries that this hot streak won't last through the off-season and Dallas should sell while his price is at it's highest. If I could trust that MacKenzie could do a job or that Ritchie was sure fire NHL ready to start next season I'd gamble and move him but I doubt that's true. I won't be upset either way.

 

[Alistar]

Top to bottom this Avs team has every right to be considered better than us. I'm not sure why we're trying to compare rosters sans goalies but even if you do they have the upper hand (easily).

Nobody would have said that at the start of the season (when the great Colorado Avalanche roster was widely selected to finish last in the division), and nobody will be saying that a year from now. You are talking straight confirmation bias, which is no way to evaluate the strength of a team.

The sad reality is that people have done tons of studies on sample size and how many games a team needs to play before their record reflects the quality of the players, and the answer is typically somewhere in the range of 1.5 to 2 seasons worth of games. I guess that's a good thing to most people because having an element of luck play into who makes the playoffs makes things exciting and surprising, but in our case it's unfortunately going to screw the Stars out of a playoff position.

 

[glovesave_35]

The sad reality is that people have done tons of studies on sample size and how many games a team needs to play before their record reflects the quality of the players, and the answer is typically somewhere in the range of 1.5 to 2 seasons worth of games. I guess that's a good thing to most people because having an element of luck play into who makes the playoffs makes things exciting and surprising, but in our case it's unfortunately going to screw the Stars out of a playoff position.

If Colorado gets similar results next year will that make me right or can we then just say that their young players continued to improve, which is essentially what I'm saying happened this year.

Nobody would have said that at the start of the season (when the great Colorado Avalanche roster was widely selected to finish last in the division), and nobody will be saying that a year from now. You are talking straight confirmation bias, which is no way to evaluate the strength of a team.

I don't think it's "straight confirmation bias" to say that the Avs have better forwards than the Stars. I also don't think it's confirmation bias to say that they have better defensemen than the Stars. I agree that nobody really had them picked to have this kind of record but even the doubters knew that they would have a formidable forward corps. The D-corps has turned a corner a bit too as former #1 overall pick Erik Johnson is playing like a guy picked 1st.

 

[Kschey]

Colorado gets outshot by more than 3 per game. The only 3 teams in the league that get outshot by a wider margin are Buffalo, Edmonton, and Toronto (who are a similar doomed club to Colorado once the luck comes out). I'm sorry but when Calgary puts up more of a fight and keeps the shot clock closer than your team, it's a bad team.

It's amazing that when a team has bad luck goaltending everyone instantly starts calling it out, but when the goaltending is unsustainably good people find other things to attribute the success to. We've seen it before with Minnesota and Toronto where people talk about some magic defensive system that limits all good opposition scoring chances, or they'll talk about how gritty the team is and how they gut out wins even if they get *slightly* outplayed. These teams always fall apart in the end, and when it does nobody is going to be jealous of Colorado's depth at center. They are going to be laughing at how bad that team is and talking about how they should tear it apart and start over again.

Now go ahead and take a look at - compared to Calgary and many other teams - how often the Avs take a lead in their games. They tend to sit back after those. It's not a good approach but definitely the reason the Avs are being outshot quite often rather than them just being a bad team - like it or not. Yesterday obviously was another kind of game, they were horrendous defensively and deserved to lose, no doubt about that. You won't find an avs fan who has anything good to say about our D except for EJ, Hejda and Barrie but goaltending and our forward core being great both offensively and defensively have been good enough to make up for the bad parts of our defense more often than not, and the last time I checked these were also parts of a hockey club.

Whatever, I originally came over to leave a couple words on Seguin. He's awesome. I love him and personally I think he's the most impressive forward so far this year. What a great deal you guys made, gotta give your GM credit for seeing what he saw.

 

[Alistar]

Now go ahead and take a look at - compared to Calgary and many other teams - how often the Avs take a lead in their games. They tend to sit back after those. It's not a good approach but definitely the reason the Avs are being outshot quite often rather than them just being a bad team - like it or not. Yesterday obviously was another kind of game, they were horrendous defensively and deserved to lose, no doubt about that. You won't find an avs fan who has anything good to say about our D except for EJ, Hejda and Barrie but goaltending and our forward core being great both offensively and defensively have been good enough to make up for the bad parts of our defense more often than not, and the last time I checked these were also parts of a hockey club.

Yeah you know who else has the lead a ton? Elite teams like Chicago, San Jose, Los Angeles, and St. Louis. They also probably "sit back" to an extent when they have the lead, but that doesn't involve them getting steamrolled and relying on their goaltender to bail the rest of the team out time and again. You can put your head in the sand and pretend that somehow Colorado is the team that has figured out how to win while being consistently outshot every night, but history (and common sense) tells us that is not sustainable.

 

[maple8]

Yeah you know who else has the lead a ton? Elite teams like Chicago, San Jose, Los Angeles, and St. Louis. They also probably "sit back" to an extent when they have the lead, but that doesn't involve them getting steamrolled and relying on their goaltender to bail the rest of the team out time and again. You can put your head in the sand and pretend that somehow Colorado is the team that has figured out how to win while being consistently outshot every night, but history (and common sense) tells us that is not sustainable.

You have watched one Avs game where they played badly and have come to a conclusion about the team. I have watched many Avs games and I would like to inform you that you are wrong. They are a better team than the Stars, both by looking at the standings and at the rosters, and comparing them to teams like Calgary is emphatically nonsense. Last night the Stars played a great game and deserved a win, so I understand the need to vent some frustrations, but you are making yourself look a little bit ignorant.

 

[Brand New Stars]

They've played 5 games against each other this season correct? I'd bet he's seen at least 3-4 if not all 5. It's pretty ignorant to assume he made his claim based off a single game.

 

[AvsfanJack]

Yeah you know who else has the lead a ton? Elite teams like Chicago, San Jose, Los Angeles, and St. Louis. They also probably "sit back" to an extent when they have the lead, but that doesn't involve them getting steamrolled and relying on their goaltender to bail the rest of the team out time and again. You can put your head in the sand and pretend that somehow Colorado is the team that has figured out how to win while being consistently outshot every night, but history (and common sense) tells us that is not sustainable.

Colorado:

Average goals per game: 2.88(7th in NHL)
Average goals against: 2.58(13th in NHL)
PP%: 19.3%(12th in NHL)
PK%: 81.8%(15th in NHL)
Giveaways: 314(26th in NHL)
Takeaways: 369(13th in NHL)

But I agree with you. Shots against, are the ONLY stat that matters when grading a team. Colorado absolutely sucks

 

[Huis Clos*]

Yeah you know who else has the lead a ton? Elite teams like Chicago, San Jose, Los Angeles, and St. Louis. They also probably "sit back" to an extent when they have the lead, but that doesn't involve them getting steamrolled and relying on their goaltender to bail the rest of the team out time and again. You can put your head in the sand and pretend that somehow Colorado is the team that has figured out how to win while being consistently outshot every night, but history (and common sense) tells us that is not sustainable.

Playoffs, baby. Here come the Avs!

 

[Satan]

I've managed to find HFAvalanche somehow

Nice hey guys

 

[Brand New Stars]

I'll never understand. I have never once gone to the board of another team to try to defend the Stars.

 

[Phil Connors*]

I'll never understand. I have never once gone to the board of another team to try to defend the Stars.

It's called insecurity. They believe they deserve some level of respect for their position in the standings, but they were no where to be found last year.

 

[Alistar]

Colorado:

Average goals per game: 2.88(7th in NHL)
Average goals against: 2.58(13th in NHL)
PP%: 19.3%(12th in NHL)
PK%: 81.8%(15th in NHL)
Giveaways: 314(26th in NHL)
Takeaways: 369(13th in NHL)

But I agree with you. Shots against, are the ONLY stat that matters when grading a team. Colorado absolutely sucks

Just sort all the teams by shot differential - this year or any other year - and tell me how many of the top 10 teams by that category make the playoffs and how many of the bottom 10 teams made the playoffs.

Oh but no, you guys are special. Surely this is a sustainable model for success, no doubt the Oilers are only a hot goaltender away from being a stanley cup contendor I mean when you have a system it doesn't matter that you spend the entire game in your own end.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

We're done here.