GDT: Game 5: Hawks @ Blues 7 PM CDT (Mod warnings in OP and #483)

[Vladys Gumption]

We were lucky to come back in those games, especially the 2nd game in the end when Chi had total control and Seabrook hands it to us but we still played awful and got lucky tying it with 6 seconds left. Exceptions will always happen anyway so I dont get your point bringing those games up where we were lucky it wasnt a 1-1 series. Even up 2-0 I thought we would lose this series.

I dont mind trading Pietrangelo at all. He's too soft and not the typical winner/leader on the ice. He gets paid like an elite defenseman and if he isn't going to play like one, the Blues will have a problem years to come. I'll say trade him when he still got some value. Shattenkirk is basically the exact same player, they play very similar and have same weakness, but he's cheaper and has less value in a trade. Pie, Bouw and Shatty are one too much, if they were great I'd be totally fine with them, but they have just been average in the playoffs.

This post probably takes the cake as the most idiotic post I've ever seen. Congratulations.
You make you're own luck. We took advantage of what was given to us. Give them some credit for ****'s sake. I don't give a crap if you think Chicago handed us those games on a silver platter, we still had to put them away.

You are out of your mind if you think Shattenkirk is anywhere near as good as Pietrangelo. You literally contradict yourself. If Shattenkirk was basically the same player as Pietrangelo and cheaper as well then he'd have more value. But you admitted he doesn't. "Trade Pietrangelo while he has some value" Jesus Christ, what a stupid statement. Pietrangelo will have as much value five years down the road because he's an elite defenseman. It's possible to have a defense anchored by a sublime, puck moving defenseman who doesn't play overly physical. Detroit did it with Lidstrom. Now you're just showing of your lack of understand of how the game works. Pietrangelo is already an elite defenseman. He's knocking on the door as one of the top 5 in the game.

 

[RR10*]

your standard is the only one that matters to yourself and you aren't being honest about their bad luck and you're totally discounting The Hawks.

Making mistakes in their own end, missing open nets, making bad changes, dump and chase every shift where no one is close is not bad luck! We were extremely lucky in the first 2 games tying late, especially the 2nd game that Seabrook handed to us, it should've been 1-1 series going to Chicago. So stop with this "luck" ********!

 

[GrandPapillon*]

Sorry don't agree and you doing exactly what I'm talking about, your standard is the only one that matters to yourself and you aren't being honest about their bad luck and you're totally discounting The Hawks.

The sooner fans get past their superstitious thinking and stop with the hockey gods, luck, bad bounces, etc. nonsense and start dealing in reality, the easier it will be to have meaningful dialog. The BlackHawks have had bad bounces too, we don't hear about those because they are a strong enough team to overcome those and find a way to win.

If anything, I am giving more credit to the BlackHawks than you are. I'm not sitting here blaming luck and pretending the Blues are good enough. The Blues are the second best team in the playoff matchup, just like they were against the Kings the past 2 seasons. I think it would be naive at this point to think that the BlackHawks and BlackHawks alone are the only team in the West that are better than the Blues this year and could knock them out. As comprised, the Blues are probably the 5th best team in the West. That doesn't win championships.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

The sooner fans get past their superstitious thinking and stop with the hockey gods, luck, bad bounces, etc. nonsense and start dealing in reality, the easier it will be to have meaningful dialog. The BlackHawks have had bad bounces too, we don't hear about those because they are a strong enough team to overcome those and find a way to win.

If anything, I am giving more credit to the BlackHawks than you are. I'm not sitting here blaming luck and pretending the Blues are good enough. The Blues are the second best team in the playoff matchup, just like they were against the Kings the past 2 seasons. I think it would be naive at this point to think that the BlackHawks and BlackHawks alone are the only team in the West that are better than the Blues this year and could knock them out. As comprised, the Blues are probably the 5th best team in the West. That doesn't win championships.

Except once again, it's not because we aren't talented enough. It's because we are missing tap ins. We should be ahead in this series.

 

[RR10*]

This post probably takes the cake as the most idiotic post I've ever seen. Congratulations.
You make you're own luck. We took advantage of what was given to us. Give them some credit for ****'s sake. I don't give a crap if you think Chicago handed us those games on a silver platter, we still had to put them away.

You are out of your mind if you think Shattenkirk is anywhere near as good as Pietrangelo. You literally contradict yourself. If Shattenkirk was basically the same player as Pietrangelo and cheaper as well then he'd have more value. But you admitted he doesn't. "Trade Pietrangelo while he has some value" Jesus Christ, what a stupid statement. Pietrangelo will have as much value five years down the road because he's an elite defenseman. It's possible to have a defense anchored by a sublime, puck moving defenseman who doesn't play overly physical. Detroit did it with Lidstrom. Now you're just showing of your lack of understand of how the game works. Pietrangelo is already an elite defenseman. He's knocking on the door as one of the top 5 in the game.

By comparing him with Lidström I can't do more than laugh. You are out of your mind. Pietrangelo is not physical at all, he lets Toews do whatever the **** he wants in our end, its not what you expect from an "elite" defender. He's not creative enough and too quiet offensively, hesitant with his shot and much more. He needs to lead this team but he doesn't, far from it actually, he's more like hiding on the ice, bet he's the shy type of guy. The comparison with Shattenkirk is really good, they are basically the same players, soft, weak in their end, skate good, play a two-way game, hesitant shot, when they shoot its wide or on defenders. The only noticeable difference is that Pie gets paid much more and has more value in a trade.

 

[RR10*]

Except once again, it's not because we aren't talented enough. It's because we are missing tap ins. We should be ahead in this series.

Why should we be ahead? We tied 3 games late in our own building. Hawks should've atleast been 1-1 after the first two games. They have clearly been the better team in most of the games, even on our home ice. Actually it is because we are not talented enough. We have no difference makers like Toews, Kane, Keith and Hossa. Tarasenko and Schwartz are on a good way but not there yet. We need to trade some of the gritters and upgrade with some talent/skill.

 

[GrandPapillon*]

Except once again, it's not because we aren't talented enough. It's because we are missing tap ins. We should be ahead in this series.

LOL,

Being able to finish is a skill. This is like you saying "Jamal Mayers was a plenty talented goal scorer, he just shot wide a lot."

Utter nonsense.

 

[STL Blues Fan]

I like Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. They don't allow many shots and would like to see them paired together more. I don't like there double clutching on shots but they aren't the reason where behind in this series. I think the bigger problem is our forwards putting shots on goal when they need to. Our best players need to play with our Best players to have a chance instead of mixing 3rd and 4th liners on our top 2 lines. How can we blame it on the players when our coaching staff doesn't put them on lined that they can excel on. Sure another top center would be great but who's to say Berglund couldn't fill that spot. I can't even remember the last top he was put on the top 2 lines. Put our grind and grit guys together and maybe they can put some in the net and grind out some offensive zone time and give Reaves more than 5 minutes a game and maybe he can get something accomplished also. Then instead of all our guys being tired at the end of a game from playing with a short bench they will have a little more life left in them instead of forcing bad line changes.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

LOL,

Being able to finish is a skill. This is like you saying "Jamal Mayers was a plenty talented goal scorer, he just shot wide a lot."

Utter nonsense.

Not utter nonsense. Oshie has plenty of skill, and the ability to finish. Somehow he missed a wide open net. All I'm saying is that it's not as drastic of a difference between the two teams as you are saying.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

By comparing him with Lidström I can't do more than laugh. You are out of your mind. Pietrangelo is not physical at all, he lets Toews do whatever the **** he wants in our end, its not what you expect from an "elite" defender. He's not creative enough and too quiet offensively, hesitant with his shot and much more. He needs to lead this team but he doesn't, far from it actually, he's more like hiding on the ice, bet he's the shy type of guy. The comparison with Shattenkirk is really good, they are basically the same players, soft, weak in their end, skate good, play a two-way game, hesitant shot, when they shoot its wide or on defenders. The only noticeable difference is that Pie gets paid much more and has more value in a trade.

If you actually believe the drivel coming out of your mouth then there's no helping you.

 

[GrandPapillon*]

Not utter nonsense. Oshie has plenty of skill, and the ability to finish. Somehow he missed a wide open net. All I'm saying is that it's not as drastic of a difference between the two teams as you are saying.

The most goals Oshie has ever scored in a season is 21. His shot isn't that great, and his skating needs a ton of work. Oshie is a very good 2-way player and undoubtedly has some sick moves in a shootout (which means nothing in a playoff series), but he isn't a high end finisher. The Blues lack high-end finishers. That makes it tough to match Chicago that can burn you with Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp etc. Part of the reason for this is because guys that can finish but aren't in the top 20th percentile of two-way players wouldn't "fit the system".

 

[Kshahdoo]

Seabrook will get back, so Chicago doesn't have a chance to win the series. They lost both games with Seabrook, and they will lose both games with him again.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

The most goals Oshie has ever scored in a season is 21. His shot isn't that great, and his skating needs a ton of work. Oshie is a very good 2-way player and undoubtedly has some sick moves in a shootout (which means nothing in a playoff series), but he isn't a high end finisher. The Blues lack high-end finishers. That makes it tough to match Chicago that can burn you with Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp etc. Part of the reason for this is because guys that can finish but aren't in the top 20th percentile of two-way players wouldn't "fit the system".

Any NHL player should have been able to finish off that tap in. That was as close to a slam dunk as it gets. And we've missed multiple chances like that. Look, I'm one of the guys that's saying we need to bring in another offensive player, but one more guy wouldn't fix the fact that we've missed wide open nets.

 

[Oberyn]

I agree that Pietrangelo needs to up his physical game if he wants to be more effective.

Regarding the series, I know the Hawks are an elite team, but a first round exit is simply not acceptable with this current roster. I wouldn't mind change in the offseason, but as mentioned before, I'm not quite sure where to begin.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

All of this arguing is pretty amusing. So far out of these 5 games both teams could have swept one another already. This is a team that is evenly matched with the team that has won 2 cups in 4 years.

 

[RR10*]

All of this arguing is pretty amusing. So far out of these 5 games both teams could have swept one another already. This is a team that is evenly matched with the team that has won 2 cups in 4 years.

This team has 4 wins in 12 games in the playoffs last two years with home court advantage. 0-8 when it mattered the most. Both first round exits. Impressive huh?

 

[Note Worthy]

If we win tomorrow it would go a long way into me being more confident is this team as a whole.

Even if we lose in a game 7, winning tomorrow would do a lot to change my attitude for this team.

I still believe we will be competitive for the next several years. It's definitely frustrating to lose last night and be in this position but I can't believe some of you are actually saying you won't be watching this team next year or ever again. Talk about an overreaction, my god.

I think you have to look at it in it's simplest form. All we have to do is win two games in a row with one being at home. We did that many times this season. It's definitely doable.

 

[Note Worthy]

This team has 4 wins in 12 games in the playoffs last two years with home court advantage. 0-8 when it mattered the most. Both first round exits. Impressive huh?

The team last year would have been swept by this Hawks team IMO.

Progress is being made.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

This team has 4 wins in 12 games in the playoffs last two years with home court advantage. 0-8 when it mattered the most. Both first round exits. Impressive huh?

Last time I checked, this series is still going on.

 

[SuperDuper101]

I'm an Ottawa Senators fan coming in peace, who originally came wondering how much interest a Blues team would have in bringing in a guy like Spezza. Point producer, who would probably fit in excellently on a team that can insulate his defensive deficiencies and allow him to simply be that elite playoff point producing machine that could help St.Louis get it done.

Reading some of the comments in this thread, I'm reminded of the frustrations Ottawa went through when we had a really good team but some bad luck and unfortunate circumstances (such as a 9 day lay-off before playing the SCF) prevented them in some ways from making the most of it and winning a Stanley Cup.

I'll tell you what though.... watching St.Louis & Chicago go at each other in this first round, the first thing I said to all my friends was "Guys, I kind of get the feeling we're watching the SCF right now" - this isn't a normal first round series. It's two truly elite teams going at it. Nothing is broken in St.Louis. Just keep going. You've played the Hawks slash for slash and goal for goal for 5 games. So what it hasn't gone your way, and maybe the series won't, it doesn't matter. This is still a great St.Louis team and they have NOTHING absolutely NOTHING to hang their heads about.

Only 1 team in 30 gets to win every year. This isn't the kind of result you blow the team up over. If you want to be upset about something, be upset about the team coasting for the last 6 games and getting themselves into the dumb situation of having to play the Hawks. That was the real mistake here. One the team better learn from. Setting yourself up for a good first round series with your 82 games is essential to winning the Stanley Cup.

In terms of how St.Louis has played (despite being banged up) I don't think there should be any complaints. It's been two great teams playing elite level hockey. It's a coin flip who's going to win in that situation and it's nobody's fault.

Just keep adding to the team, keep growing. The guys to replace are obvious - Morrow, Ott & Roy. There quite simply are better more talented guys who will want to play in St.Louis. Do what Ottawa did, target a UFA like MacArthur. Or make a good trade and bring in a high end skill guy like Spezza. Frankly, probably the best thing for your team would be to offer Hemsky a reasonable contract. Possession driving, point producing monster. He'd fit in perfectly on your team and give you more skill to go with the grit+skill combo already working so well. And he's not a soft player by any means. He gets in the dirty areas all the time.

Just keep the belief in your team. You have a good group. The younger guys and the young D will continue to grow and improve. Even if it hurts now. You have one of the best teams in the league and they're a pleasure to watch every night. The right now for St.Louis is about finding the right pieces to put you over the top so that you can conquer a Hawks team.

If the Hawks end up in a cap crunch with bonuses, maybe one of those players is in this series right now in a Bickel. Fast and big with a big of skill. I'm sure he'd be a great fit in St.Louis as well - adds a lot more in the playoffs than a Roy or Morrow. It's small changes here. The team is already great. Just keep adding to it. Keep the faith guys!

 

[Note Worthy]

I wouldn't think we would want Spezza. Not very defensively sound.

 

[RR10*]

You dont understand because you dont follow this team up close year after year.

 

[zero39]

I'm an Ottawa Senators fan coming in peace, who originally came wondering how much interest a Blues team would have in bringing in a guy like Spezza. Point producer, who would probably fit in excellently on a team that can insulate his defensive deficiencies and allow him to simply be that elite playoff point producing machine that could help St.Louis get it done.

Reading some of the comments in this thread, I'm reminded of the frustrations Ottawa went through when we had a really good team but some bad luck and unfortunate circumstances (such as a 9 day lay-off before playing the SCF) prevented them in some ways from making the most of it and winning a Stanley Cup.

I'll tell you what though.... watching St.Louis & Chicago go at each other in this first round, the first thing I said to all my friends was "Guys, I kind of get the feeling we're watching the SCF right now" - this isn't a normal first round series. It's two truly elite teams going at it. Nothing is broken in St.Louis. Just keep going. You've played the Hawks slash for slash and goal for goal for 5 games. So what it hasn't gone your way, and maybe the series won't, it doesn't matter. This is still a great St.Louis team and they have NOTHING absolutely NOTHING to hang their heads about.

Only 1 team in 30 gets to win every year. This isn't the kind of result you blow the team up over. If you want to be upset about something, be upset about the team coasting for the last 6 games and getting themselves into the dumb situation of having to play the Hawks. That was the real mistake here. One the team better learn from. Setting yourself up for a good first round series with your 82 games is essential to winning the Stanley Cup.

In terms of how St.Louis has played (despite being banged up) I don't think there should be any complaints. It's been two great teams playing elite level hockey. It's a coin flip who's going to win in that situation and it's nobody's fault.

Just keep adding to the team, keep growing. The guys to replace are obvious - Morrow, Ott & Roy. There quite simply are better more talented guys who will want to play in St.Louis. Do what Ottawa did, target a UFA like MacArthur. Or make a good trade and bring in a high end skill guy like Spezza. Frankly, probably the best thing for your team would be to offer Hemsky a reasonable contract. Possession driving, point producing monster. He'd fit in perfectly on your team and give you more skill to go with the grit+skill combo already working so well. And he's not a soft player by any means. He gets in the dirty areas all the time.

Just keep the belief in your team. You have a good group. The younger guys and the young D will continue to grow and improve. Even if it hurts now. You have one of the best teams in the league and they're a pleasure to watch every night. The right now for St.Louis is about finding the right pieces to put you over the top so that you can conquer a Hawks team.

If the Hawks end up in a cap crunch with bonuses, maybe one of those players is in this series right now in a Bickel. Fast and big with a big of skill. I'm sure he'd be a great fit in St.Louis as well - adds a lot more in the playoffs than a Roy or Morrow. It's small changes here. The team is already great. Just keep adding to it. Keep the faith guys!

As a Buffalo fan, I agree with all of this. You people need to get some perspective. The Blues work as hard as any team in hockey, play a great system, are talented and deep, and are well-coached. If they win one road game, they have Game 7 at home with a chance to knock out the defending champs. This is a great series between two great teams. The Blues are close.

 

[SuperDuper101]

You dont understand because you dont follow this team up close year after year.

Do I really need to? I followed Ottawa through a similar situation. Everyone in the city was hard on Alfie until 2007. There isn't much wrong with your team. What we outsiders have is an emotionally detached perspective. What you have is a desire to direct your anger toward a scapegoat.

And of course Spezza isn't elite defensively, I don't think I all 18 skaters need to be... The point would be Spezza could elevate the production of some of your best 200 foot players while he himself would benefit from the defensive skill surrounding him and insulating his weakness. He would add something the Blues lack, which is a pure skill star. Development of Schwartz & Tarasenko may handle that for you all on it's own of course. I just think on your team Spezza hits 90-95 points and brings you that much closer. Consider him your Kane to your Toews (Backes, Oshie)

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Do I really need to? I followed Ottawa through a similar situation. Everyone in the city was hard on Alfie until 2007. There isn't much wrong with your team. What we outsiders have is an emotionally detached perspective. What you have is a desire to direct your anger toward a scapegoat.

And of course Spezza isn't elite defensively, I don't think I all 18 skaters need to be... The point would be Spezza could elevate the production of some of your best 200 foot players while he himself would benefit from the defensive skill surrounding him and insulating his weakness. He would add something the Blues lack, which is a pure skill star. Development of Schwartz & Tarasenko may handle that for you all on it's own of course. I just think on your team Spezza hits 90-95 points and brings you that much closer. Consider him your Kane to your Toews (Backes, Oshie)

Ignore him. He thinks Shattenkirk is just as good of a defenseman as Pietrangelo.