GDT: Game 5 Coyotes Vs Rangers - 4:00 Sunday October 23rd

[The Feckless Puck]

Good post. Our D is starting play better. Don't forget Gogo, Schenn and Chychrun are new and Stone just came back, so I think we should give our D a little bit of a break.

I'm not blaming our players' talent. I'm blaming whatever D system the coaching staff has set up. You could probably put the best defenseman in the NHL into that system and he'd look like a monkey seducing a football too. The last time our D was truly good was back when Ulf was running it.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I'm not blaming our players' talent. I'm blaming whatever D system the coaching staff has set up. You could probably put the best defenseman in the NHL into that system and he'd look like a monkey seducing a football too. The last time our D was truly good was back when Ulf was running it.

Playfair had the 1 good year after taking over for Ulf, but that is it. Every Defense we've had since then has been garbage.

Someone needs to be held accountable.

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

Last night our line changes when we had possession looked like **** - the classic dump and chase and lose possession. Someone talked about that last game. But then it seemed to turn around last night and there were several instances of the D holding the puck behind our net waiting for our line change. Almost as if they were being coached...

 

[Jakey53]

I'm not blaming our players' talent. I'm blaming whatever D system the coaching staff has set up. You could probably put the best defenseman in the NHL into that system and he'd look like a monkey seducing a football too. The last time our D was truly good was back when Ulf was running it.

I think our D will be just fine. With Stone back and depth at D in the AHL it's only a matter of time until they turn it around. Our forwards still need to have better puck possession which will also help the D.

 

[kihekah19*]

I though the D looked better the last 2 games. Last night I would only put one of those goals on poor D coverage, and although Gogo was on the ice, I blame Schenn.

Have yet to see the game, but based on hi-lights I agree.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Playfair had the 1 good year after taking over for Ulf, but that is it. Every Defense we've had since then has been garbage.

Someone needs to be held accountable.

A lot of that is also players being familiar with each other. In Playfair's first year, the following 7 defensemen on the roster with the most time were:

Yandle, OEL, Klesla, Rozsival, Morris, Schlemko, and Aucoin. All solid players with a number of years of NHL experience (OEL being the lone exception) and each player had at a half year with the team from the previous year.

Since 2012, the only true mainstays have been OEL and Yandle (up until the trade). Most every player that we have aged rapidly (Michalek, Morris) or had injuries to impact their game (Klesla).

I personally think that the changes from Ulf to Playfair were somewhat minimal initially. We still had far more gaffes in the 2011-12 season on D than we did in the two previous seasons. Once the players went downhill, we had little talent to replace in the pipeline (where we once thought we were golden). The thing that bothers me is that for the first time in a few seasons, we have players like OEL, Stone, and Murphy who have been in this system for 3-4 years now. When things get worse with players who should theoretically be improving, that signals a weakness in coaching and understanding by the team. Especially since, by and large, OEL, Stone, and Murphy have all improved considerably over the years. Maybe some of that is blamed on younger players being thrust into roles that they are not ready for, but that is why you coach those mistakes out of them. Individual talent is great, but our collective team defense is porous at times, mediocre at fewer times, and excellent at even fewer times.

 

[kihekah19*]

What I was trying to imply (apparently poorly), is that perhaps Gogo's weaknesses were mitigated when he was on a REALLY good team.

Similar to the reason the Panthers thought Bolland was worth $5.5 mil per season. He looked somewhat productive playing with the Hawks. Outside that environment he never really produced.

Just a theory.

It's an excellent theory. The only saving grace is that we're just getting our act together as a team. T'is dangerous times on the horizon however, as the script is not yet finished and the act could get ugly with some wrong turns.

 

[kihekah19*]

our collective team defense is porous at times, mediocre at fewer times, and excellent at even fewer times.

Excellent observation..... key being team defense

 

[kihekah19*]

I don't think Tippett blamed the whole game on Louis, but let's be honest. Louis made a couple of fantastic saves at key moments, but by and large he looked awful. Out of position, uncertain, and once or twice actually panicking.



Calling out a goalie who's got a 5.03 GAA and a .851 SV over 155 minutes played is a good idea.

I think a lot of people are giving Louis a pass over the way he played last year, but my god, man, Domingue has been absolutely brutal thus far this year. Justin freaking Peters has outplayed him - and Justin Peters is not a good goalie.

Louis needs to be held accountable and if a public wake-up call doesn't work, then he can go sulk in a lower league (with another franchise, if necessary).





Maybe the Gogo we're seeing is what he looks like on a terrible defensive team. Which is what we are.

Whoever's running the back end on the coaching staff needs to be fired. Yesterday.

I agree with all of this except maybe your last sentence. I say maybe
because it is a possibility it's coaching, but I have a hard time believing coaches could have players so confused that they are making some of the errors we see. Furthermore, some of the issues we find ourselves in can be attributed to team defense and not just the back end.

 

[kihekah19*]

Tippett on Smith... 2 yrs ago.



http://www.azcentral.com/wlna/sport...sults-for-coyotes-goalie-mike-smith/20838081/

I believe this to be a hack from a foreign source, as we all know DT has in locker room side and his public side.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I don't think Tippett blamed the whole game on Louis, but let's be honest. Louis made a couple of fantastic saves at key moments, but by and large he looked awful. Out of position, uncertain, and once or twice actually panicking.



Calling out a goalie who's got a 5.03 GAA and a .851 SV over 155 minutes played is a good idea.

I think a lot of people are giving Louis a pass over the way he played last year, but my god, man, Domingue has been absolutely brutal thus far this year. Justin freaking Peters has outplayed him - and Justin Peters is not a good goalie.

Louis needs to be held accountable and if a public wake-up call doesn't work, then he can go sulk in a lower league (with another franchise, if necessary).





Maybe the Gogo we're seeing is what he looks like on a terrible defensive team. Which is what we are.

Whoever's running the back end on the coaching staff needs to be fired. Yesterday.

Looking back to the previous game, I think that one thing that miffed DT (and maybe even carried over to this game) was the inexplicable "swat" of the puck in the Islanders game. We are tied 2-2, and while the intention was to bat the puck out of the offensive zone, he didn't. In fact, he simply gave up a scoring opportunity after the Isles player gloved it and put it right back on net.

Totally understand that the defense hasn't always helped out in the best ways, but no need to add to the mistakes by doing that.

It is still early, and the team needs a wakeup call. We don't really have a ton of players who are doing so inexplicably bad that they need to be sat for a game (White maybe being the exception), so it needs some public words for people to realize what needs to be looked at.

I have this feeling that the first thing that happens when we get back from the road trip is a "player's only" meeting before the next practice.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I agree with all of this except maybe your last sentence. I say maybe
because it is a possibility it's coaching, but I have a hard time believing coaches could have players so confused that they are making some of the errors we see. Furthermore, some of the issues we find ourselves in can be attributed to team defense and not just the back end.

The reason why I think it's coaching is that we've had the same defensive lapses and guys playing out of position and so forth consistently over the past four years or so. The names of the players making the mistakes have changed, but the same mistakes happen.

I'm just trying to apply Occam's Razor - I've already gone through the thought process of "Maybe our forwards lack too much talent" and "Maybe our young D need more experience" and a dozen other hypotheses, but as I eliminate various possible causes through context, the one remaining constant is the coaching/system. Our opponents seem to be able to exploit our play pretty easily, too, so that's another thing that has me leaning that direction - a systemic issue that other teams have scouted and take advantage of when they play us.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I agree with all of this except maybe your last sentence. I say maybe
because it is a possibility it's coaching, but I have a hard time believing coaches could have players so confused that they are making some of the errors we see. Furthermore, some of the issues we find ourselves in can be attributed to team defense and not just the back end.

Well, the back end consisting of team defense should have the forwards clear on what to do as well. That's like a defensive coordinator in football who only coaches the secondary, and has no input for where the D-line and LBs go. When playing properly, everyone has an assignment that limits the gaps for the offense to sneak through.

I have seen some mistakes on our defense, and some on our forwards. I would expect some pains with our forwards as they get used to NHL game speed and realize slowly that they can't necessarily go after the puck the same way as they did in junior. It will lead to over-skating and being out of position. I think that my issue is that once one person makes a blunder or bad read in our defensive zone, it forces the 4 other players to react differently, and instead of having a cohesive balance to that, it is like people start to panic and get caught up in only focusing on their man or only focusing on the puck.

And to be honest, it seems like it is a different scenario each time. If we struggle with defending the halfwall down below goal line extended, and that is where all of our GA are coming from, then we can isolate to one problem to fix. I would rather have that scenario, with only one subject to focus on, as opposed to trying to fix the 6 different ways that a team scored.

 

[_Del_]

Tippett on Smith... 2 yrs ago.



http://www.azcentral.com/wlna/sport...sults-for-coyotes-goalie-mike-smith/20838081/

Somehow I don't see Domingue's solitary softie and Smith letting in 4 of the first 11 shots on goal as a direct comparison...


I'm not saying Domingue has been great. I just don't see the need to pin the loss on the goalie for one soft goal. One, it's not a confidence builder and goalies are neurotic to begin with. Two, for the second game in a row, it moves the heat from the coaching staff/system and the other players not "executing" who can now pat themselves on the back and say they all did a "good enough" job, but the goaltender let them down. There's plenty of work to be done on a 1-4 team. Publically blaming Domingue for two of those losses is horse crap. When has Dave Tippett ever stood after a loss and said, "It's on me. We didn't prepare well for this game" or "I didn't make the proper adjustments" or "I need to do a better job making sure the players know where to be and what to be doing" or "I was outcoached, and they got the matchups they wanted".

 

[kihekah19*]

Well, the back end consisting of team defense should have the forwards clear on what to do as well. That's like a defensive coordinator in football who only coaches the secondary, and has no input for where the D-line and LBs go. When playing properly, everyone has an assignment that limits the gaps for the offense to sneak through.

I have seen some mistakes on our defense, and some on our forwards. I would expect some pains with our forwards as they get used to NHL game speed and realize slowly that they can't necessarily go after the puck the same way as they did in junior. It will lead to over-skating and being out of position. I think that my issue is that once one person makes a blunder or bad read in our defensive zone, it forces the 4 other players to react differently, and instead of having a cohesive balance to that, it is like people start to panic and get caught up in only focusing on their man or only focusing on the puck.

And to be honest, it seems like it is a different scenario each time. If we struggle with defending the halfwall down below goal line extended, and that is where all of our GA are coming from, then we can isolate to one problem to fix. I would rather have that scenario, with only one subject to focus on, as opposed to trying to fix the 6 different ways that a team scored.

As for your fist paragraph - I'll give you a no **** buxy? And add that sometimes I think you just enjoy watching your fingers type.

As for the rest - what you basically describe is experience / discipline and or the lack thereof. Yes when an error is made the inexperienced and undisciplined start chasing and covering outside their role. It takes discipline to keep from doing that when unwarranted and experience to know when it's warranted.

It's ironic that these are the very reasons our former GM and coaching staff have been hesitant to play younger players and now that they are playing the younger players, many posters are showing a lack of discipline and experience.

 

[kihekah19*]

The reason why I think it's coaching is that we've had the same defensive lapses and guys playing out of position and so forth consistently over the past four years or so. The names of the players making the mistakes have changed, but the same mistakes happen.

I'm just trying to apply Occam's Razor - I've already gone through the thought process of "Maybe our forwards lack too much talent" and "Maybe our young D need more experience" and a dozen other hypotheses, but as I eliminate various possible causes through context, the one remaining constant is the coaching/system. Our opponents seem to be able to exploit our play pretty easily, too, so that's another thing that has me leaning that direction - a systemic issue that other teams have scouted and take advantage of when they play us.

Could be coaching.... idk, but doubt it.

I believe it's like I've been saying and buxy just stated - a lack of cohesiveness.

 

[kihekah19*]

Somehow I don't see Domingue's solitary softie and Smith letting in 4 of the first 11 shots on goal as a direct comparison...


I'm not saying Domingue has been great. I just don't see the need to pin the loss on the goalie for one soft goal. One, it's not a confidence builder and goalies are neurotic to begin with. Two, for the second game in a row, it moves the heat from the coaching staff/system and the other players not "executing" who can now pat themselves on the back and say they all did a "good enough" job, but the goaltender let them down. There's plenty of work to be done on a 1-4 team. Blaming Domingue for two of those losses is horse crap.

You could very well be correct, but there could also be a reason both DT and Roy have acted similarly with Domingue. Of course it's possible they both have/are handling him wrong.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Publicly blaming Domingue for two of those losses is horse crap.

I'm with you. Don't think a coach should ever call out any player. Win as a team, lose as a team. Keep the name calling in house.

Always loved the Steve Spurrier post game presser.

"They're a better team, better coaches. I don't think we coached a spectacular game."

 

[BUX7PHX]

As for your fist paragraph - I'll give you a no **** buxy? And add that sometimes I think you just enjoy watching your fingers type.

As for the rest - what you basically describe is experience / discipline and or the lack thereof. Yes when an error is made the inexperienced and undisciplined start chasing and covering outside their role. It takes discipline to keep from doing that when unwarranted and experience to know when it's warranted.

It's ironic that these are the very reasons our former GM and coaching staff have been hesitant to play younger players and now that they are playing the younger players, many posters are showing a lack of discipline and experience.

Well, the entire premise of my post was questioning if Playfair was bringing the forwards properly into the fold on our defensive game plans. If he is, we need a new coach, b/c it has been 3-4 years of the same thing. If not, he better start getting the forwards caught up on proper defensive play to save his job. Players will make some mistakes here and there, but not to the level at which we are making now.

That was the advantage that I think Ulf gave us - he started off coaching defense first to all levels, and b/c it was our first time being truly "coached" in a while, the team responded. I think that Ulf made us into a cohesive unit. I don't think Playfair is making us into a cohesive unit.

 

[cactus shake]

Domingue hasn't been great and I can't imagine how frustrating the soft goals are for a coach, given they're bad enough as a fan - yet I don't think his performances come close to meriting all this focus. The play in the defensive zone has been diabolical. The last two games have shown improvement in terms of all round play (great corsi last game!) but I think the play without the puck in our own zone was as bad as it's been. Some stats to support this (all are for even strength play):

Sites that track shot quality can split them into high, medium and low danger chances, depending on where on the ice the puck was shot from. Credit to section328.com for this graphic, which I think matches the old war-on-ice one showing the different ice areas for each category.
[collapse=1]

[/collapse]
Over the first 5 games of the season, the team's given up significantly more high danger chances than anyone else:
[collapse=2]

[/collapse]
For reference, here are the bottom 10 teams in this stat last year: [collapse=3]

[/collapse]
The Rangers gave up the most last year with 838 even strength high danger chances against, which averages out as just over 10 a game. Through 5 games, we're on pace for 1181.

Against the Rangers, we gave up 17 high danger chances at even strength. Domingue saved all but 1, a significantly higher sv% than league average. That obviously doesn't make it any better when an easy shot from just inside the blueline goes in - the point is that I think we've left our goalies out to dry so far this season and that team defence is by far the bigger ill.

 

[XX]

Good post cactus. Average shot distance has to be point blank. I've never seen a team collectively forget how to defend the slot like the Coyotes have. Guys are not sticking within their defensive assignments and that's a coaching thing on Playfair (and ultimately Tip).

 

[BUX7PHX]

Good post cactus. Average shot distance has to be point blank. I've never seen a team collectively forget how to defend the slot like the Coyotes have. Guys are not sticking within their defensive assignments and that's a coaching thing on Playfair (and ultimately Tip).

I will give it another five more games (scoring will always be higher in the first 5-10 games as teams adjust to new players, new players learn new system, etc.).

But this is not the first instance that we have some extreme defensive liabilities - just the first instance that people are starting to see that the defensive play is a problem, and that the goalies can only do so much. I was one of the few people who defended Smith over the years by saying that it is more an issue on the defensive side not preventing some of those high quality chances. Even if the opposition does not score, it drains a goalie both physically and mentally.

Even now, the more things change (getting a much-needed makeover on defense), the more things stay the same.

As bad as this sounds, I am hoping that we do give up more scoring opportunities so that it becomes loud and clear that something is not working with Playfair. If we replace Playfair, and trend just as bad or worse, then I will start to question if the team has tuned out Tippett in some ways.

 

[Jakey53]

Somehow I don't see Domingue's solitary softie and Smith letting in 4 of the first 11 shots on goal as a direct comparison...


I'm not saying Domingue has been great. I just don't see the need to pin the loss on the goalie for one soft goal. One, it's not a confidence builder and goalies are neurotic to begin with. Two, for the second game in a row, it moves the heat from the coaching staff/system and the other players not "executing" who can now pat themselves on the back and say they all did a "good enough" job, but the goaltender let them down. There's plenty of work to be done on a 1-4 team. Publically blaming Domingue for two of those losses is horse crap. When has Dave Tippett ever stood after a loss and said, "It's on me. We didn't prepare well for this game" or "I didn't make the proper adjustments" or "I need to do a better job making sure the players know where to be and what to be doing" or "I was outcoached, and they got the matchups they wanted".

DT didn't pin the loss on DL, who by the way has not played well. Did you hear Arians talk about his kicker? Both coaches tell it like it is, no ***** footing around. All your doing is making excuses for the player. Ask the two players in question here and they will tell you they screwed up.

 

[Jakey53]

Domingue hasn't been great and I can't imagine how frustrating the soft goals are for a coach, given they're bad enough as a fan - yet I don't think his performances come close to meriting all this focus. The play in the defensive zone has been diabolical. The last two games have shown improvement in terms of all round play (great corsi last game!) but I think the play without the puck in our own zone was as bad as it's been. Some stats to support this (all are for even strength play):

Sites that track shot quality can split them into high, medium and low danger chances, depending on where on the ice the puck was shot from. Credit to section328.com for this graphic, which I think matches the old war-on-ice one showing the different ice areas for each category.
[collapse=1]

[/collapse]
Over the first 5 games of the season, the team's given up significantly more high danger chances than anyone else:
[collapse=2]

[/collapse]
For reference, here are the bottom 10 teams in this stat last year: [collapse=3]

[/collapse]
The Rangers gave up the most last year with 838 even strength high danger chances against, which averages out as just over 10 a game. Through 5 games, we're on pace for 1181.

Against the Rangers, we gave up 17 high danger chances at even strength. Domingue saved all but 1, a significantly higher sv% than league average. That obviously doesn't make it any better when an easy shot from just inside the blueline goes in - the point is that I think we've left our goalies out to dry so far this season and that team defence is by far the bigger ill.

Good post. The last line of defense is your goalie. A .851 SV% will not win you many games in the NHL. The D are still adjusting and the team defense overall has not been good, but there is no excuse for that kind of poor showing either.

 

[DomiToDuclair]

“It changes the whole tone of the game because you’re chasing the game then,†Tippett said. “ … I don’t know if the puck just dropped on (Domingue) or what. You got a team that played last night. You keep the pressure on them. But they can play a real nice, comfortable game when they’re up a goal, just keep flipping things out. In that respect, it did change the game.

Tippett on Dom.

Kinda seems like he's at least partially blaming a pretty significant portion of the game on him.