GDT: Game 49: Kings @ Coyotes - FSAZ - 7PM

[RemoAZ]

Thought this was a pretty strong statement to the HF posters who always say OEL is over rated.

 

[Hinterland]

Thought this was a pretty strong statement to the HF posters who always say OEL is over rated.

Well, those 16 Gamewinners are quite an achievement, but to even draw a comparison between the two is crazy. I like OEL, but Doughty is the best defenseman league and worldwide. The kings won two cups because of their defensive play... despite their crap D. I get that they have excellent two way forwards but Doughty is their most important player.

OEL is one of the best defenders with the puck but even though he isn't quite a liability like Karlsson, he's still far far away from Doughty in terms of defense...

 

[Heldig]

Dont have the link handy but there was a stats analysis before the season and it ranked OEL as the 2nd best overall D ahead of doughty and behind Vlasic.

 

[Plub]

Well, those 16 Gamewinners are quite an achievement, but to even draw a comparison between the two is crazy. I like OEL, but Doughty is the best defenseman league and worldwide. The kings won two cups because of their defensive play... despite their crap D. I get that they have excellent two way forwards but Doughty is their most important player.

OEL is one of the best defenders with the puck but even though he isn't quite a liability like Karlsson, he's still far far away from Doughty in terms of defense...

That's not true at all. How quickly people forget when Yandle was here, OEL was used as a shutdown d-man. He is one of the best offensively and defensively in the entire league.

 

[Matias Maccete]

That's a heartbreaking loss, mostly because it's the kings. I hate them so much.

 

[Jakey53]

I love when Smitty attacks a forward that runs him. The league doesn't punish that harshly enough, sometimes a goalie has to take matters into his own hands.

I agree, but in Smitty's case, I think he has cried wolf too often and the refs turn their heads most times.

 

[Jakey53]

Not a single shot on a ****ing 4 on 1!!

This is why we're in ****ing last place. Fire the entire coaching staff for that one play, alone.

Wow, this is the post of the year.

 

[Jakey53]

Fischer probably is the better all round player than Perlini but he wasn't good enough with the puck. Skating could also be better. He played well but he seemed to have quite some issues with the speed of the game. Was good to have him around. Now he knows what to work on. He'll be back. Was the right call to send him down. Perlini is much more confident with the puck and the better skater. Fischer easily could have stayed with the team in a bottom six role and on the PK but I'd rather have him play top minutes with Tucson to round out his offensive game and gain confidence. Also read that he was able to go to the AHL allstar game. Good for him.

I agree. Fischer and DeAngelo will be back this year. Nice to see the Coyotes bringing the kids up for a look see and letting get the feel for the NHL. It will be interesting when Domi and Duclair get back.

 

[Jakey53]

I thought it was a very good game. Chick and Perlini were outstanding, using their speed every shift and creating chances. Dvo, while not good in the dot last night played well and with Perlini on that line it seems Doan is playing much better. Burmi did not stand out but was good with puck and Martinook played a very solid game, as usual. I almost forgot about Crouse. That fourth line was outstanding. Kids are progressing very nicely, and when you add in Domi, Duclair with their speed, Fischer, DeAngelo and Strome next year, it will be fun.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I thought it was a very good game. Chick and Perlini were outstanding, using their speed every shift and creating chances. Dvo, while not good in the dot last night played well and with Perlini on that line it seems Doan is playing much better. Burmi did not stand out but was good with puck and Martinook played a very solid game, as usual. I almost forgot about Crouse. That fourth line was outstanding. Kids are progressing very nicely, and when you add in Domi, Duclair with their speed, Fischer, DeAngelo and Strome next year, it will be fun.

Agree, until the 3rd period.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

The Coyotes were brought back down to Earth. Smith is overrated and needs to be gone at the expansion draft.

 

[cobra427]

I thought it was a very good game. Chick and Perlini were outstanding, using their speed every shift and creating chances. Dvo, while not good in the dot last night played well and with Perlini on that line it seems Doan is playing much better. Burmi did not stand out but was good with puck and Martinook played a very solid game, as usual. I almost forgot about Crouse. That fourth line was outstanding. Kids are progressing very nicely, and when you add in Domi, Duclair with their speed, Fischer, DeAngelo and Strome next year, it will be fun.

I agree. We played well, gave them a tough game. It could have gone either way, all you can ask for.

 

[cobra427]

Well, those 16 Gamewinners are quite an achievement, but to even draw a comparison between the two is crazy. I like OEL, but Doughty is the best defenseman league and worldwide. The kings won two cups because of their defensive play... despite their crap D. I get that they have excellent two way forwards but Doughty is their most important player.

OEL is one of the best defenders with the puck but even though he isn't quite a liability like Karlsson, he's still far far away from Doughty in terms of defense...

OEL/Doughty is a flip of the coin. Although OEL has not played well this year. Give Doughty Z as his partner or Schenn this year and have him swap teams with OEL, it would be a different story as to who is (slightly) better.

 

[_Del_]

Agree, until the 3rd period.

Were tickets 33% off?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

OEL would be a superstar on virtually any other team in the league.

He's in Arizona, so he's not.

 

[MIGs Dog]

OEL would be a superstar on virtually any other team in the league.

He's in Arizona, so he's not.

OEL rank in Norris Trophy voting:
2016...9th
2015...17th
2014...14th
2013...7th
2012...zero votes, even though his 13 goals were more than 18 of the 20 players that did receive votes.

Not saying he should have won the Norris for any of those years, but clearly he gets no respect, and playing in the desert probably is a big reason why.

A problematic stat, but his +/- doesn't help make the case for defensive prowess.

 

[Spirit of Lindgren]

Hard fought game last night.
No complaints at all with what I saw
If Domi and Richardson were healthy, it would even be better.
The arena was freezing cold again last night
That will continue until attendance gets to 13k+
Thanks to all the NHL fans living in Arizona that showed up to support the Arizona team.

 

[MIGs Dog]

The arena was freezing cold again last night

I'm always surprised when I see people in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops. Much tougher than me apparently.

 

[Hinterland]

OEL/Doughty is a flip of the coin. Although OEL has not played well this year. Give Doughty Z as his partner or Schenn this year and have him swap teams with OEL, it would be a different story as to who is (slightly) better.

It isn't. A lot of people tend to forget how good our defense is. Our forwards make them look bad at times because:

a.) Some of them just aren't good enough and nothing but turnovermachines

b.) Some of them don't get how to play against the puck...especially in terms of positioning

c.) The forward system doesn't work. It's been the same for years and even though it never worked the Coaches obviously never noticed...

If it wasn't for Smith and the excellent defense we have, I can assure you that our losing streaks would have been a lot more ugly...even though that's hard to believe knowing how ridiculously bad the team was.

You guys can complain about Goligoski, Murphy or Stone as long as you want but they actually do a very good job. Yes, Goligoski was really bad at first, but he really turned it around. Stone wasn't even half as bad as some here wanted him to be. Knowing what he got through, I think he showed really well. Murphy's level may have dropped a bit for a few games, but lately and overall he's done a good job. Same can be said about Chychrun. Schenn has been stellar, just as expected. Not gonna contribute offensively but he's a huge upgrade for our blueline. So smart but at the same time also pretty tough.

Doughty had Voynov but the Kings never replaced him. Martinez is really good but plays the same side as Doughty. Now, is playing with Muzzin or Forbort more fun than playing with Schenn, Stone or Murphy? I doubt that...

 

[Hinterland]

OEL rank in Norris Trophy voting:
2016...9th
2015...17th
2014...14th
2013...7th
2012...zero votes, even though his 13 goals were more than 18 of the 20 players that did receive votes.

Not saying he should have won the Norris for any of those years, but clearly he gets no respect, and playing in the desert probably is a big reason why.

A problematic stat, but his +/- doesn't help make the case for defensive prowess.

Part of the reason. But I don't like the idea of giving the award to the defender who scores the most points. Erik Karlsson always was a blatantly bad defender but won how many? Two norris trophies?
OEL is just Karlsson 2.0. Same player, just a bit better defensively. Looking at it like that OEL should have won a trophy...but like I said. The most valuable defender should be the one that does the best job defensively...not offensively. In my view, Keith, Karlsson or Subban should have never won one. Suter, Weber or Doughty were always much better.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

OEL is an elite shot suppressing Dman, your talking out of your ass.

Plus Duncan Keith should have never won a Norris, are you kidding me?

The 26min a night, elite offensive and defensive Dman shouldn't have ever won a Norris trophy...

 

[Jakey53]

It isn't. A lot of people tend to forget how good our defense is. Our forwards make them look bad at times because:

a.) Some of them just aren't good enough and nothing but turnovermachines

b.) Some of them don't get how to play against the puck...especially in terms of positioning

c.) The forward system doesn't work. It's been the same for years and even though it never worked the Coaches obviously never noticed...

If it wasn't for Smith and the excellent defense we have, I can assure you that our losing streaks would have been a lot more ugly...even though that's hard to believe knowing how ridiculously bad the team was.

You guys can complain about Goligoski, Murphy or Stone as long as you want but they actually do a very good job. Yes, Goligoski was really bad at first, but he really turned it around. Stone wasn't even half as bad as some here wanted him to be. Knowing what he got through, I think he showed really well. Murphy's level may have dropped a bit for a few games, but lately and overall he's done a good job. Same can be said about Chychrun. Schenn has been stellar, just as expected. Not gonna contribute offensively but he's a huge upgrade for our blueline. So smart but at the same time also pretty tough.

Doughty had Voynov but the Kings never replaced him. Martinez is really good but plays the same side as Doughty. Now, is playing with Muzzin or Forbort more fun than playing with Schenn, Stone or Murphy? I doubt that...

Excellent defense? My god man are you blind. OEL is having a tough year, because the other teams focus on him only when he is on the ice. They care less about Murphy or Schenn as they are no threat and both are third pairing Dmen. Stone is playing better of late but is no better than a second pairing, and that is stretching it, and you have Chick who is learning on the job, Gogo who I think has been a big disappointment and you have a mediocre D. I agree that the forwards have to do more, and that will come as the kids progress, but the D has to be much better. But to say our D is excellent is wrong.

 

[Hinterland]

Excellent defense? My god man are you blind. OEL is having a tough year, because the other teams focus on him only when he is on the ice. They care less about Murphy or Schenn as they are no threat and both are third pairing Dmen. Stone is playing better of late but is no better than a second pairing, and that is stretching it, and you have Chick who is learning on the job, Gogo who I think has been a big disappointment and you have a mediocre D. I agree that the forwards have to do more, and that will come as the kids progress, but the D has to be much better. But to say our D is excellent is wrong.

Blind huh?
I think you should start to pay attention to details. When I said that the forwards aren't good enough, I didn't mean the kids. Not at all. Even though Tippett repeatedly uses the kids to excuse bad performances, it doesn't automatically mean that that's the case. Tippett doesn't even believe that himself. Well, at least I hope so. It's the other way around. Dvorak, Crouse, Martinook and Rieder are the ones, who, together with Hanzal and the defense, carry this team defensively. Perlini's all round game is fair and even Fischer was excellent against the puck when he was up.

How do teams focus on OEL more than they did previously? You'd need to define that. On the forecheck? No matter how you mean that, it's probably not the case. Schenn isn't gonna help OEL offensively, but allows him to take more risks himself. Murphy plays a similar game but Schenn is clearly smarter and a bit more consistent. That's why he got promoted despite Murphy being the better skater and offering a little bit more offensive upside. Stone would probably play alongside OEL if he hadn't been injured the way he was. I agree with you that we don't have a second top defenseman but Goligoski, after a rough start, is pretty close to that. Could do a little more offensively but he improved a lot. Our defensive depth is amazing. Stone is an excellent 2nd pairing guy, Murphy and Chychrun would play on the 2nd pairing of quite a few teams and Schenn did come as advertised. Probably shouldn't be a top2 guys but I think he did a good job.

OEL has nobody to blame but himself for the year he's having. He's produced ridiculous giveaways when there was zero pressure on him. Again, the forwards don't really help the case, but that's no excuse if you wanna be one of the league's best defensemen. While I, for obvious reasons, agree that OEL is clearly the best defender on this roster, if I had to pick a role model to teach prospects how to defend, I definitely wouldn't pick OEL. There's a lot more wrong there than just his turnovers...as I said...to me, he's Karlsson 2.0. A very good player but never gonna be elite at defending.

 

[HerrDonut]

Part of the reason. But I don't like the idea of giving the award to the defender who scores the most points. Erik Karlsson always was a blatantly bad defender but won how many? Two norris trophies?
OEL is just Karlsson 2.0. Same player, just a bit better defensively. Looking at it like that OEL should have won a trophy...but like I said. The most valuable defender should be the one that does the best job defensively...not offensively. In my view, Keith, Karlsson or Subban should have never won one. Suter, Weber or Doughty were always much better.

I'm with this guy. Glad someone else is saying it too. Measuring the greatness of defensemen with offensive - not defensive - stats is, well... offensive.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I'm with this guy. Glad someone else is saying it too. Measuring the greatness of defensemen with offensive - not defensive - stats is, well... offensive.

Should be a balance IMO. Best two way defenseman.