GDT: Game 49: Kings @ Coyotes - FSAZ - 7PM

[cobra427]

Blind huh?
I think you should start to pay attention to details. When I said that the forwards aren't good enough, I didn't mean the kids. Not at all. Even though Tippett repeatedly uses the kids to excuse bad performances, it doesn't automatically mean that that's the case. Tippett doesn't even believe that himself. Well, at least I hope so. It's the other way around. Dvorak, Crouse, Martinook and Rieder are the ones, who, together with Hanzal and the defense, carry this team defensively. Perlini's all round game is fair and even Fischer was excellent against the puck when he was up.

How do teams focus on OEL more than they did previously? You'd need to define that. On the forecheck? No matter how you mean that, it's probably not the case. Schenn isn't gonna help OEL offensively, but allows him to take more risks himself. Murphy plays a similar game but Schenn is clearly smarter and a bit more consistent. That's why he got promoted despite Murphy being the better skater and offering a little bit more offensive upside. Stone would probably play alongside OEL if he hadn't been injured the way he was. I agree with you that we don't have a second top defenseman but Goligoski, after a rough start, is pretty close to that. Could do a little more offensively but he improved a lot. Our defensive depth is amazing. Stone is an excellent 2nd pairing guy, Murphy and Chychrun would play on the 2nd pairing of quite a few teams and Schenn did come as advertised. Probably shouldn't be a top2 guys but I think he did a good job.

OEL has nobody to blame but himself for the year he's having. He's produced ridiculous giveaways when there was zero pressure on him. Again, the forwards don't really help the case, but that's no excuse if you wanna be one of the league's best defensemen. While I, for obvious reasons, agree that OEL is clearly the best defender on this roster, if I had to pick a role model to teach prospects how to defend, I definitely wouldn't pick OEL. There's a lot more wrong there than just his turnovers...as I said...to me, he's Karlsson 2.0. A very good player but never gonna be elite at defending.

Your assessments of our talent level on D are so far off base, just like your assesments of Verby/McGinn. OEL is top pairing, Gogo is second pairing, and past that we have all third pairing D men. Schenn wouldn't be first pairing with any other team and he wouldn't be second pairing with almost any other team. He is first pair with us That is how bad our D is right now. Murphy/Chych would not be second pairing on almost any team.

OEL is on a crappy team, has a crappy D partner, in a crappy media market, and this is why he gets no respect. He is having an off year, maybe he is fed up with the teams play, not sure. OEL is slightly better or slightly worse then all the top D men in the NHL including Doughty.

 

[CC96]

Excellent defense? My god man are you blind. OEL is having a tough year, because the other teams focus on him only when he is on the ice. They care less about Murphy or Schenn as they are no threat and both are third pairing Dmen. Stone is playing better of late but is no better than a second pairing, and that is stretching it, and you have Chick who is learning on the job, Gogo who I think has been a big disappointment and you have a mediocre D. I agree that the forwards have to do more, and that will come as the kids progress, but the D has to be much better. But to say our D is excellent is wrong.

Very well said.

 

[CC96]

OEL's defense was God-tier from 2012-2015. Having Yandle left OEL to be utilized in a lock-down role, which he excelled at. Once Yandle left, he took over puck moving duties and posted back-to-back 20 goal seasons.

Once we get a D-core that isn't in shambles, I'm sure he'll look fantastic again.

 

[Hinterland]

OEL's defense was God-tier from 2012-2015. Having Yandle left OEL to be utilized in a lock-down role, which he excelled at. Once Yandle left, he took over puck moving duties and posted back-to-back 20 goal seasons.

Once we get a D-core that isn't in shambles, I'm sure he'll look fantastic again.

So what you're saying is that giveaways like the one where he, standing all alone behind the goal, passed the puck right to the next opponent happened because his fellow defenders aren't good enough?
You can't possibly be serious about that. Either this guy should consult a mental coach to work on consistency and concentration or he should start to compete. Far too many defensive breakdowns from what you consider to be your best defender. Again, the forward group doesn't help at all but it's no excuse...

 

[CC96]

So what you're saying is that giveaways like the one where he, standing all alone behind the goal, passed the puck right to the next opponent happened because his fellow defenders aren't good enough?
You can't possibly be serious about that. Either this guy should consult a mental coach to work on consistency and concentration or he should start to compete. Far too many defensive breakdowns from what you consider to be your best defender. Again, the forward group doesn't help at all but it's no excuse...

He's having one bad year. It happens.

In years past, he was out of this world defensively. He'll be fine.

 

[hbk]

OEL is or has been playing with a severely injured (broken) hand.

 

[CC96]

OEL is or has been playing with a severely injured (broken) hand.

That too.

 

[Hinterland]

OEL is or has been playing with a severely injured (broken) hand.

Source? I don't even think it's possible to play with a broken hand...has anyone in the NHL ever done that? There's also risk of making it a lot worse. Shouldn't be too bad of a surgery...he would be back after a few weeks. We're not gonna win anything this season...why would you risk to play through it? Makes little sense to me...

 

[Bonsai Tree]

OEL is or has been playing with a severely injured (broken) hand.

My guess is that he has ligament damage. Further play won't worsen the situation and he can have surgery in the off season.

 

[Jakey53]

So what you're saying is that giveaways like the one where he, standing all alone behind the goal, passed the puck right to the next opponent happened because his fellow defenders aren't good enough?
You can't possibly be serious about that. Either this guy should consult a mental coach to work on consistency and concentration or he should start to compete. Far too many defensive breakdowns from what you consider to be your best defender. Again, the forward group doesn't help at all but it's no excuse...

The forwards have to take much of the heat as our puck possession is not good, but I think they are getting better, but I haven't confirmed this. Our D is far from excellent and at this point of time I would say mediocre at best. I'm glad Chychrun is paired with Murphy because I think it has scared the hell out of him and he is starting to carry the puck much more. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Chychrun is on the second pairing next year. Gogo has been playing better, but no where near what we all thought he would bring and he turns the puck over constantly.

 

[Jakey53]

OEL is or has been playing with a severely injured (broken) hand.

Then why play him? I can see him playing somewhat injured, but I would be surprised if it is broken. Who knows though.

 

[Jakey53]

My guess is that he has ligament damage. Further play won't worsen the situation and he can have surgery in the off season.

I can see something like this. We all know OEL is not the same this year, but his lackluster play started with that tournament.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

Someone posted a quick video of him on the golf course during the break. Not sure who he was with but they both did a little trick where they popped the ball off the ground, tapped it with the club and caught it in their hand. Except for Ollie the ball didn't go where he could catch it. It went right in "the lower abdominal region" as the old wrestling announcers used to say.

You'd figure if he was THAT injured he'd use the time to heal up.

 

[Hinterland]

The forwards have to take much of the heat as our puck possession is not good, but I think they are getting better, but I haven't confirmed this. Our D is far from excellent and at this point of time I would say mediocre at best. I'm glad Chychrun is paired with Murphy because I think it has scared the hell out of him and he is starting to carry the puck much more. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Chychrun is on the second pairing next year. Gogo has been playing better, but no where near what we all thought he would bring and he turns the puck over constantly.

Shouldn't be all that difficult to locate our problems. Just compare our roster to our division rivals. If you take a closer look, you're gonna see a lot of teams having lots of very responsible two way forwards on the roster who carry the team. Most of the Pacific teams do have a pretty weak defense. Canucks defense is clearly the best one...they had quite some injuries and a crap forward group but the remaining defenders have done really well. The Ducks have Fowler...and? Vatanen, as good as he is, always was a liability and still has his moments. Lindholm has been terrible...obviously not the start they wanted but still. He just hasn't been good at all. Manson is solid but very limited. Stone and Bieksa are almost done. I'm also not sold on Calgary. Hamilton is supposed to be their leader on the backend but I think he's hardly top pairing material. You start to see why the Bruins gave up on him. Brodie has a very rough season...nowhere near good enough. Wideman and Giordano declining rapidly. Young guys weren't really revelations so far so they're starting to lean on Engelland...which is very alarming. You could make a case about Edmonton. If everyone is healthy I guess their defense is pretty good. They have no clear number one though and their group has little experience. Kings defense is rubbish. Some of them shouldn't even be in the NHL. Doughty and Martinez are very good but in my view, Muzzin is overrated. Plays heavy minutes because they got nobody else. Forbort, McNabb and all the rest is 3rd pairing material at best. Wouldn't even make our lineup. Again, they never replaced Voynov. Classical example of a team carried by two way forwards. The same you can see in San Jose. Burns is very good offensively, his partner Vlasic is good defensively. Decent top pairing. But who else do they have? I really like Braun but the rest is either AHL material, or just too slow (Dillon/Martin). Martin also declining rapidly.


The only thing we don't have but many other teams do, is a clear Nr.2 on defense. Again, we probably would have one without Stone's injury. But other than that, our defense is by no means bad. You don't wanna compare our forward group to our division rivals though. Better if we don't even start with that...and we haven't even talked about our broken system that's never gonna work. Really no need to be a genius to see where our problems are...

 

[MIGs Dog]

My guess is that he has ligament damage. Further play won't worsen the situation and he can have surgery in the off season.

Is this a "medical" opinion? My non-medical opinion (assuming he actually is injured) is that it can make it worse, or at the least will not allow it to heal.

Also, with a .03% chance of a playoff appearance, it makes a helluvalota sense to get it fixed and on the road to recovery now so that he's 100% come October.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Is this a "medical" opinion?

Of course not. It is an educated opinion based upon observation of OEL's play this year. A "medical opinion" would entail reviews of films and, hopefully, an examination.

 

[Jakey53]

Shouldn't be all that difficult to locate our problems. Just compare our roster to our division rivals. If you take a closer look, you're gonna see a lot of teams having lots of very responsible two way forwards on the roster who carry the team. Most of the Pacific teams do have a pretty weak defense. Canucks defense is clearly the best one...they had quite some injuries and a crap forward group but the remaining defenders have done really well. The Ducks have Fowler...and? Vatanen, as good as he is, always was a liability and still has his moments. Lindholm has been terrible...obviously not the start they wanted but still. He just hasn't been good at all. Manson is solid but very limited. Stone and Bieksa are almost done. I'm also not sold on Calgary. Hamilton is supposed to be their leader on the backend but I think he's hardly top pairing material. You start to see why the Bruins gave up on him. Brodie has a very rough season...nowhere near good enough. Wideman and Giordano declining rapidly. Young guys weren't really revelations so far so they're starting to lean on Engelland...which is very alarming. You could make a case about Edmonton. If everyone is healthy I guess their defense is pretty good. They have no clear number one though and their group has little experience. Kings defense is rubbish. Some of them shouldn't even be in the NHL. Doughty and Martinez are very good but in my view, Muzzin is overrated. Plays heavy minutes because they got nobody else. Forbort, McNabb and all the rest is 3rd pairing material at best. Wouldn't even make our lineup. Again, they never replaced Voynov. Classical example of a team carried by two way forwards. The same you can see in San Jose. Burns is very good offensively, his partner Vlasic is good defensively. Decent top pairing. But who else do they have? I really like Braun but the rest is either AHL material, or just too slow (Dillon/Martin). Martin also declining rapidly.


The only thing we don't have but many other teams do, is a clear Nr.2 on defense. Again, we probably would have one without Stone's injury. But other than that, our defense is by no means bad. You don't wanna compare our forward group to our division rivals though. Better if we don't even start with that...and we haven't even talked about our broken system that's never gonna work. Really no need to be a genius to see where our problems are...

I didn't say our D was bad, I said mediocre, but by no means is it excellent. I know what you are saying and I agree in part, but I believe that Stone's injury hurt us more than most think. Last year he was a second pairing and just recently is starting to show signs of regaining his form, and has helped Goose play much better of late. I also think Goose tried to do too much and it hurt his play more than helped. He needs that 2nd pairing Dman to play with. Murphy is now playing where he belongs, and that is 3rd pairing. Schenn is playing very well, but again he is 2nd - 3rd pairing D. I agree, we need that #2 on D, but I would like to see DeAngelo play with OEL just to see what happens. Our system is fine, and DT will adjust as our talent progresses.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Of course not. It is an educated opinion based upon observation of OEL's play this year. A "medical opinion" would entail reviews of films and, hopefully, an examination.

I was referring to your assertion that playing with a ligament injury will not make it worse, I think it could.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I was referring to your assertion that playing with a ligament injury will not make it worse, I think it could.

It depends upon the type of injury.