GDT: Game #45 | Phoenix Coyotes @ Detroit Red Wings | 7:30 PM EST | FS-D / NBCSN

[crashman]

Yeah, Smith hasn't done **** in Detroit. He adds something to the power play which is nice I guess. He's better than Kind, I just really expected much more from him.

Are you saying Smith is better than Kindl? I totally disagree.

DeKeyser has really been impressive, I think he's gonna be great next season.

 

[sarcastro]

Are you saying Smith is better than Kindl? I totally disagree.

DeKeyser has really been impressive, I think he's gonna be great next season.

It's tough to judge them in absolutes.

Kindl looked like absolute crap until a couple weeks ago. Smith has looked like crap most of the year but he's actually got the better tools if he can ever figure out how to use them.

Smith has higher upside than DK too, but DK is already good at playing his game and doesn't look like he's still figuring things out.

I can see DK having a hard time next season when teams start to get a fix on what they can do to fluster him. He's big but not strong, for instance. He skates well and can move the puck fine but isn't great with the puck.

 

[Bench]

He's big but not strong, for instance.

Send him to the Gary Roberts off-season camp, STAT.

 

[BinCookin]

It's tough to judge them in absolutes.

Kindl looked like absolute crap until a couple weeks ago. Smith has looked like crap most of the year but he's actually got the better tools if he can ever figure out how to use them.

Smith has higher upside than DK too, but DK is already good at playing his game and doesn't look like he's still figuring things out.

I can see DK having a hard time next season when teams start to get a fix on what they can do to fluster him. He's big but not strong, for instance. He skates well and can move the puck fine but isn't great with the puck.

Being from Ontario, I see alot of leaf fans.
They are much like HF boards in general.

Massive swings on their opinions of defensemen

1 day he is great, next day he is garbage.

I like to make decisions based on 1-3 seasons minimum.

I would guess Smith, Kindl and DDeK will be on the team next year.

This would be extremely impressive for DDek honestly. I mean NCAA is not the AHL. But he has looked very good. DDeK could be considered a free first round draft pick (mid 1st) if he continues to look this good. (If we can keep adding key players like Brunner and DDek, that will massively speed up our "rebuild")

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

Dekeyser will end up being better than Smith. He handles the puck better, is a better skater and doesn't turn the puck over all the time or get beat like Smith does.

 

[sarcastro]

Being from Ontario, I see alot of leaf fans.
They are much like HF boards in general.

Massive swings on their opinions of defensemen

1 day he is great, next day he is garbage.

I like to make decisions based on 1-3 seasons minimum.

I would guess Smith, Kindl and DDeK will be on the team next year.

This would be extremely impressive for DDek honestly. I mean NCAA is not the AHL. But he has looked very good. DDeK could be considered a free first round draft pick (mid 1st) if he continues to look this good. (If we can keep adding key players like Brunner and DDek, that will massively speed up our "rebuild")

People are always complaining about the Wings not playing their prospects - well this year, their D corps has been almost entirely Wing draftees and undrafted signees. That's 228 of 270 defensive man-games so far. Even if you don't count Q as a draftee because he left, it's still more than 2/3 Wing draftees.

When you play the guys you've developed, you're going to have years like this. There are some folks that just don't understand that.

It's a damn good thing they got DK, that's for sure. He does make the rest of the D look better.

 

[Flowah]

People are always complaining about the Wings not playing their prospects - well this year, their D corps has been almost entirely Wing draftees and undrafted signees. That's 228 of 270 defensive man-games so far. Even if you don't count Q as a draftee because he left, it's still more than 2/3 Wing draftees.

When you play the guys you've developed, you're going to have years like this. There are some folks that just don't understand that.

It's a damn good thing they got DK, that's for sure. He does make the rest of the D look better.

The complaint for me though, is that they were not properly introduced. Ericsson looks good this year because he's already had a couple of seasons under his belt under the likes of Lidstrom and Rafalski and Stuart.

Smith does not have that going for him. He'll still learn, he's got too much obvious skill not to. But if he had played up all last year (as opposed to only 14 games) I have no doubt he'd be much less green than he is right now. It took over a year to iron out Ericsson and for him to move on from HFBoard's favorite whipping boy.

Point being. It didn't have to be "like this." It could have been smoother if it had been handled properly.

DD is a winner though. He has looked solid as hell every single game so far in pretty much every aspect of the game. He reads the play well, he has good offensive instincts, solid defensively, great speed. We got lucky with that one.

 

[Bench]

Point being. It didn't have to be "like this." It could have been smoother if it had been handled properly.

That's conjecture. It's not absolute that the time would have propelled them.

Dallas Stars example incoming, watch out! But Niskanen had his career years with Zubov. He was supposed to be the next Zubov. Well after being taught the ropes by a legend he went on to play himself into the bottom pairing and being tossed in as a money dump in the Neal trade.

It didn't ensure he wouldn't have really, really rough years that would cost the Stars playoff hopes and have management sour on him. And even on Pittsburgh he's leveled off as a respectable puck mover, but not the 30+ point defender he was his first 2 seasons.

 

[Goalie guy]

Okay I just got off the ice myself, watching the game right now. why is this not the team every night? kicking all sorts of A@# tonight! way to go boys!!!!

 

[Frk It]

Games/Stretches like these are all you really need for the "Franzen Floater" argument. The fact that he is capable of going on stretches like this, and the player you saw the first 90% of this season absolutely doesn't resemble the same player proves that he is lazy/inconsistent. No reason why he can't bring it every night like he has recently.

 

[PullHard]

Dallas Stars example incoming, watch out! .

If you love them so much why don't you marry them

Okay I just got off the ice myself, watching the game right now. why is this not the team every night? kicking all sorts of A@# tonight! way to go boys!!!!

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Bench]

If you love them so much why don't you marry them :p

It's illegal in most states to marry a sports team.

But seriously, the reason it comes up is because the Wings haven't been in many of these positions since the early 90s. But other teams have quite recently! And I happen to watch tons of games from one of those other teams. So hey, I've got a few experience nuggets. Niskanen is a classic example of why playing a dude with a legend doesn't always translate as you'd expect.

And the other nugget is why firing a good coach like Dave Tippett doesn't always improve your team. Which I tend to vocalize in the Babcock sucks threads.

The final nugget is that barely missing the playoffs and drafting around the top 10 doesn't guarantee you get a bunch of good players. 4 straight years and the only elite Stars prospect is a goalie, who is totally still a gamble.

There, that's all of it. I shall not mention their name again. Until Saturday.

 

[HIFE]

...I was thinking the same thing....

We all were!

The DRW have made me into a bi-polar schizophrenic. One day I'm down, the next minute I'm drooling in outer space imagining Abbie and Datsyuk licking the cup. Anything is possible with this team. As my Pops says, no one want to face Detroit!

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Games/Stretches like these are all you really need for the "Franzen Floater" argument. The fact that he is capable of going on stretches like this, and the player you saw the first 90% of this season absolutely doesn't resemble the same player proves that he is lazy/inconsistent. No reason why he can't bring it every night like he has recently.

Johan Franzen: Even when he's good, he's bad.

 

[Frk It]

Johan Franzen: Even when he's good, he's bad.

He has played great the last 10 games. It's too bad his balls dropped for the last week of the season in a year where we have struggled to score goals and struggled to win tight games.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He has played great the last 10 games. It's too bad his balls dropped for the last week of the season in a year where we have struggled to score goals and struggled to win tight games.

He has actually been good all season and great the last ten games.

If Franzen played at this pace all the time he would be a 6.5 to 7 million all-star, lots of players are incapable of keeping that kind of pace. It is what it is.

 

[smurfyeah19]

Ha the Red Wings really need to give me tix for every game. Minnesota 5-3, Vancouver 8-3 and now Phoenix 4-0. That's like what 20% of all our goals for the season lol, and the PP was beast

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

It's illegal in most states to marry a sports team.

But seriously, the reason it comes up is because the Wings haven't been in many of these positions since the early 90s. But other teams have quite recently! And I happen to watch tons of games from one of those other teams. So hey, I've got a few experience nuggets. Niskanen is a classic example of why playing a dude with a legend doesn't always translate as you'd expect.

And the other nugget is why firing a good coach like Dave Tippett doesn't always improve your team. Which I tend to vocalize in the Babcock sucks threads.

The final nugget is that barely missing the playoffs and drafting around the top 10 doesn't guarantee you get a bunch of good players. 4 straight years and the only elite Stars prospect is a goalie, who is totally still a gamble.

There, that's all of it. I shall not mention their name again. Until Saturday.

I understand where you're coming from with the whole "no guarantees" argument, and Niskanen is a really good example of that. My problem is that Smith should've been up last year because he was one of our top 7 defenseman within the organization--it's the same issue I have with Tatar not being in the top 9 with Detroit. If Smith was up playing last year, that could've/should've precluded the Quincey trade (Lidstrom, White, Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith, Stuart). As bad as Smith has been (which I still believe has ALOT to do with Babcock destroying his confidence), that's easier to handle with a steadier Lidstrom-led defense.

Also, while Smith playing with Lids and Stuey might not have guaranteed him being better for this season, it definitely wouldn't have hindered his development. It appears that leaving him in the A did just that.

 

[Frk It]

He has actually been good all season and great the last ten games.

If Franzen played at this pace all the time he would be a 6.5 to 7 million all-star, lots of players are incapable of keeping that kind of pace. It is what it is.

I'm not even talking about his production. I'm talking about his effort. His compete level. His skating. His mentality. It has been way better recently than the first part of this season. If you want to tell me he can't play this hard all the time that's fine, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Bench]

I understand where you're coming from with the whole "no guarantees" argument, and Niskanen is a really good example of that. My problem is that Smith should've been up last year because he was one of our top 7 defenseman within the organization--it's the same issue I have with Tatar not being in the top 9 with Detroit. If Smith was up playing last year, that could've/should've precluded the Quincey trade (Lidstrom, White, Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith, Stuart). As bad as Smith has been (which I still believe has ALOT to do with Babcock destroying his confidence), that's easier to handle with a steadier Lidstrom-led defense.

Also, while Smith playing with Lids and Stuey might not have guaranteed him being better for this season, it definitely wouldn't have hindered his development. It appears that leaving him in the A did just that.

Yeah, I agree.

It's just not a promise, you know? But nothing ventured, nothing gained, that whole thing.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I'm not even talking about his production. I'm talking about his effort. His compete level. His skating. His mentality. It has been way better recently than the first part of this season. If you want to tell me he can't play this hard all the time that's fine, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

You're absolutely right. That's why he's one of the more frustrating players and most controversial amongst Detroit fans.

Lately he's looked like the player that we seen seen after his breakout in 2008. Hard on the puck, creating offense, using his body more, and driving when he has the puck.

The Franzen that we seen much of the season and much of last season is a completely different player. Soft of the puck, loses most 50/50 puck battles, plays on the perimeter, etc.

People can attempt to use stats to say he's consistently effective all they want. You and I both know that it's crap.

 

[HIFE]

I understand where you're coming from with the whole "no guarantees" argument, and Niskanen is a really good example of that. My problem is that Smith should've been up last year because he was one of our top 7 defenseman within the organization--it's the same issue I have with Tatar not being in the top 9 with Detroit. If Smith was up playing last year, that could've/should've precluded the Quincey trade (Lidstrom, White, Kronwall, Ericsson, Kindl, Smith, Stuart). As bad as Smith has been (which I still believe has ALOT to do with Babcock destroying his confidence), that's easier to handle with a steadier Lidstrom-led defense.

Also, while Smith playing with Lids and Stuey might not have guaranteed him being better for this season, it definitely wouldn't have hindered his development. It appears that leaving him in the A did just that.

I feel your sentiment, but times changed the way they did. In a sense Lids and Smith are so far apart in age, the gap will be filled by nature itself, meaning the system/organization of the DRW. The tradition is ongoing from Howe to Y, to Z, it's only natural.

As much as critics have aimed, Brendan Smith is going to pass through. As stubborn as our management is they will not admit defeat. We'll defend Smith until the dying end, 2017 Atlantic Division playoffs! For real every day we can all improve, Smith is on his way. A night like tonight reminds us of the magic that is possible.

 

[WesNichols14]

You're absolutely right. That's why he's one of the more frustrating players and most controversial amongst Detroit fans.

Lately he's looked like the player that we seen seen after his breakout in 2008. Hard on the puck, creating offense, using his body more, and driving when he has the puck.

The Franzen that we seen much of the season and much of last season is a completely different player. Soft of the puck, loses most 50/50 puck battles, plays on the perimeter, etc.

People can attempt to use stats to say he's consistently effective all they want. You and I both know that it's crap.

90% of people who watch the Wings regularly no this

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm not even talking about his production. I'm talking about his effort. His compete level. His skating. His mentality. It has been way better recently than the first part of this season. If you want to tell me he can't play this hard all the time that's fine, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think everyone is going to play their best all the time. I hope like heck they do and Franzen could bring the level he reaches that up, but he isn't nearly as bad as people want to make him out to be. It is in part because he is frighteningly one of the best players we have seen when on his full form best. But he is very good most of the time for me. He is a bit of an enigma, but when times are tough we can generally count on the Mule, that is why ideas like buying him out or screaming at him at every turn bother me. I guess I accept him for what he is and not always this idea of what he could be. If he was that player he would have been a top 10 pick making 7 million a year and going to all-star games. Seriously I don't find a huge difference between Franzen and Nash even in how they both choose to play most of the time.

I will readily admit he fails the eye test from time to time, so do almost all players league wide. We have been spoiled with the Yzerman, Fedorov (by the way people labelled him with this from time to time), Zetterberg and Datsyuk type players. A lot of players really especially power forwards are more hit and miss. Plus I do think Franzen does not handle minor injuries or knocks as well as a lot of players. It really shows up in his stride which can be significantly different over the course of the season. I think that is probably health, although some of it is certainly desire. I just don't think he is mailing it in as much as people think. Most of this year he has played hard when I have been watching. But I am a Franzen fan I won't deny that.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

I have to ask you guys this, a bunch of people saying how big a dick Doan was and an idiot.

I'm sorry, but Abdelkader ran around all night and he was asked to fight by Michalek of all people and declined.

If someone took 4 runs at Dekeyser, and then a run at Datsyuk or Nyquist, wouldn't we be screaming for someone to do what Doan did??

On that note, BRING ON LA!