Post-Game Talk: GAME #45: Canucks 0 @ Leafs 5: Go do something else for the next four days! Bye!

[Elias GOATtersson]

This thread is strange when at first glance it’s a bunch of people yelling into the void...

Don’t forget to check your ignore lists folks

 

[Ryp37]

Was'nt accidental at all...They had their eyes on him the whole time...

Why follow the horrible team with horrible players...?.Why put yourself through it..?.Go follow the Leafs or something?..See ya...Most people are enthusiastic about the future of the team.

say it with me, no more ellipsis

 

[Ryp37]

I'm not even going to bother disputing your conspiracy theories....You were also trying to remove Benning from the equation of the Boeser pick as well, if I recall....

Your dislike of Benning (and a number of players) is so radically obsessive,..and infantile....Its hard to take any of your analysis seriously.

Looking back at the 2015 draft, most teams concede the Canucks rated Boeser higher than anyone else. Regional scout Ted Hampson and current director of player development Ryan Johnson pushed hardest. Hampson handles Minnesota — where Boeser is from — and Johnson went to NCAA North Dakota, Boeser’s college choice. I’m not sure Vancouver was worried anyone would take him earlier than 23rd, but the Wild made them a bit nervous because it was his home state. This has turned out to be a huge steal for them.

 

[Hodgy]

I'm not even going to bother disputing your conspiracy theories....You were also trying to remove Benning from the equation of the Boeser pick as well, if I recall....

Your dislike of Benning (and a number of players) is so radically obsessive,..and infantile....Its hard to take any of your analysis seriously.

Let me just get this straight. You are extremely defensive and pro-Benning, and MS is extremely critical and against Benning. Jim Benning has managed this team over the last five or so years during which time this team has essentially being, perhaps, the worst team in the entire NHL. But in your view, MS is "radically obsessive,..and infantile"? Based on objective data, do you understand how delusional you sound? Shouldn't we all be very critical of Benning?

He’s probably brought this team one of the best players it’s ever had..and the best group of young talent in decades..

Nothing embarrassing about that chum..

Do you understand that the NHL rewards failure and that is why we have Pettersson? Benning's own incompetence has landed him four straight top picks. The first two look bad, the third looks great, and the fourth is too early to tell. Evidence suggests that he wasn't the driving force on the third pick, but even then, when you are only batting one out of three on top picks you are not doing a good job anyway. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

 

[Jay Cee]

I would say more "unhealthily fixated" with Benning, not infantile.

 

[Melvin]

Let me just get this straight. You are extremely defensive and pro-Benning, and MS is extremely critical and against Benning. Jim Benning has managed this team over the last five or so years during which time this team has essentially being, perhaps, the worst team in the entire NHL. But in your view, MS is "radically obsessive,..and infantile"? Based on objective data, do you understand how delusional you sound? Shouldn't we all be very critical of Benning?



Do you understand that the NHL rewards failure and that is why we have Pettersson? Benning's own incompetence has landed him four straight top picks. The first two look bad, the third looks great, and the fourth is too early to tell. Evidence suggests that he wasn't the driving force on the third pick, but even then, when you are only batting one out of three on top picks you are not doing a good job anyway. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

If the team had been run since 2014 by a computer that did nothing but offer extensions to existing players and draft based on statistics, the team would be no worse off today and almost certainly would be better off.

 

[Hodgy]

If the team had been run since 2014 by a computer that did nothing but offer extensions to existing players and draft based on statistics, the team would be no worse off today and almost certainly would be better off.

Yes, supporting Jim Benning is a pretty indefensible. The point you are making is a good one, and one that has been made before. Benning supporters like Pastor of Muppetz seem to be comparing Jim Benning to a team without any GM. I suspect that Pastor of Muppetz is a stubborn contrarian that has dug himself in so deep that he will continue to defend Benning until the bitter end.

 

[Jack Burton]

Jay Beagle sub 10 minutes, $3MM for 3 more years
Eriksson 10 minutes, $6MM for 3 more years
Schaller 10 minutes, $1.9MM 1 more year
Roussel 11:47, $3MM for 3 more years.

$14MM well spent. We pay $4MM for those 4 roster spots/ice time would the results change at all?

It's actually 17.1 mill once you factor in signing bonuses

 

[Black Noise]

It's actually 17.1 mill once you factor in signing bonuses

Good thing there’s no stud free agents like Karlsson, Panarin, Stone or Bobrobsky to go after this year!

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Poolio needs to go. There is no reason he should be seeing any ice time with Biega on the bench.

I would love to see the last of Granlund as well.

This team is sooo easy to play against when EP40 is out. Shut down Horvat and Boeser and just cruise to your shutout win.

I’d like to see Poolio and Granlund on waivers and Gaunce and maybe Sautner called up. Actually, I’d also like to see Boucher get a proper chance, at least he seems to have modicum of offensive mojo.

 

[Foundational Player]

"Didn't feel like a 5-0 game."

Yesterday's result reminded me of that Ducks game last year were Travis thought the boys played alright.

Only been shut out 3 of the past 4 games. Team has had trouble scoring for years now, thank goodness Benning targeted such skilled offensive players such as Beagle, Roussell and Schaller during the off season.

Pouliot needs to be put out to pasture but then it came to light that he has yet to play 300 NHL games.

He'll come around...................................................just like Erik Gudbranson.

 

[Soups On]

"Didn't feel like a 5-0 game."

Yesterday's result reminded me of that Ducks game last year were Travis thought the boys played alright.

Only been shut out 3 of the past 4 games. Team has had trouble scoring for years now, thank goodness Benning targeted such skilled offensive players such as Beagle, Roussell and Schaller during the off season.

Pouliot needs to be put out to pasture but then it came to light that he has yet to play 300 NHL games.

He'll come around...................................................just like Erik Gudbranson.

I agree with almost everything you said except Roussel. Hes been good surprise.

Too put it lightly, theres too much dead space in this roster getting too much icetime.

Granlund, Pouliot, Schaller, Del Zotto, Gudbranson, and Eriksson should not be on this team, especially the last two with their garbage contracts.

 

[tantalum]

As far as I can tell Roussel had a couple of noticeable weeks when playing alongside Horvat. That’s about it. If you simply watched the last few games you’d be hard pressed to know he was even playing.

Maybe not the biggest of the issues but it’s not a win either.

 

[Melvin]

Yes, supporting Jim Benning is a pretty indefensible. The point you are making is a good one, and one that has been made before. Benning supporters like Pastor of Muppetz seem to be comparing Jim Benning to a team without any GM. I suspect that Pastor of Muppetz is a stubborn contrarian that has dug himself in so deep that he will continue to defend Benning until the bitter end.

Pretty much. If you aren't capable of using a baseline to measure performance then you aren't behaving rationally. These people have been asked repeatedly to outline any plausible hypothetical where any other gm could have done a worse job and they simply refuse. They aren't able to identify logical success conditions and therefore have no objective basis for evaluating performance.

While those of us could quite easily give conditions upon which we would consider their performance a success, they are not able to give any condition upon which they would consider the regime a failure. If you cannot identify a scenario whereby which you would change your mind, you are not engaging in rational discourse. You are using faith based reasoning instead of evidence based reasoning. Thus the poster showing Benning as a deity is apt, as the process is the same.

I've even taken the time to show that a very simple, unsophisticated algorithm for ranking players would yield better drafting results. No matter. Logic and reason is not the point. At this stage the only remaining conclusion is it is some form of trolling, where the goal is to annoy those that are interested at looking at things using logic.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yes Pettersson is on the team. An improved Markstrom is also on the team but improved the last 5-6 weeks wasn’t just improved but playing at an unsustainable level.

No one has an issue with those guys or that they are on the team. Hell everyone acknowledges that and handful of players have done a damn good job this year. The issue and the issue you continually want to dance around is that it’s the other 15 players on the roster that have been brought in by management that are sinking the team.

So yes, those guys are on the team but a team is not made up of just 5 or 6 performing players. Management is responsible for those guys AND the 15 guys doing nothing. It’s those other 15 guys they have spent several seasons bringing in to build depth, leadership, grit, intangibles, mentoring etc. It’s not even doing nothing but often hurting the team. So pats on the back for Pettersson and Boeser but in no world should that be enough to say they’ve done any sort of good job.

What you see when Pettersson isn’t on the ice or Horvat isn’t playing 20+ minutes a night is the collection of crap management from day 1 thought they could win with. If you told them two or three seasons ago that this year they would have Horvat playing a legit #1 two-way center, a rookie of the year that isn’t just a rookie leader but among the best in the league, Boeser at a point per game, Tanev and Edler being Tanev and Edler, Hutton stepping up and Virtanen as a 30-40 point two way winger they would tell you that without a doubt they would be a playoff team because they’d have that supporting cast assembled. Well that supporting cast is assembled and it blows.

It is worth repeating: the issue isn’t the kids stepping up but the supporting cast that Benning has carefully crafted the last 3 or 4 offseasons. That alone should be grounds for dismissal. I don’t even need to go into the fact that thendrafting actually isn’t great. That the organization still has no depth at any level etc... There is nothing that suggests that this management is capable of assembling the supporting cast and depth needed now that the team actually has a few core players to move forward with. NOTHING. Quite the opposite. They have shown they can’t.

I get that the bottom half of the roster is sub par, and that is clearly why they are ranked to be a consensus bottom 5 team...If we had good bottom half depth, its highly unlikely that we would have had high draft choices the last few years..Its a rebuilding team, and I have no illusions about that...Not going to disagree with you that pro scouting was sub par 2014-16.

Obviously ,there was a rash of 'win now' moves which did not pan out (Eriksson etc),but IMO,that is what Benning was hired to do...If he didnt do it..The ownership would have hired another GM..There was not going to be a rebuild in 2014...The bottom players we currently have on the roster are indicative of the 'we can turn this around in a hurry' era...They tried and failed with that, but it was impossible to begin with.

Anyway,the team looked pretty spent in the last couple of games..Last night was the 3rd game in 4 nights (or the 6th game in 10 nights)..Lets see how 'bad' they are heading into 2019,with a relatively healthy roster, and a relaxed schedule.

​

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yes, supporting Jim Benning is a pretty indefensible. The point you are making is a good one, and one that has been made before. Benning supporters like Pastor of Muppetz seem to be comparing Jim Benning to a team without any GM. I suspect that Pastor of Muppetz is a stubborn contrarian that has dug himself in so deep that he will continue to defend Benning until the bitter end.

I haven't dug myself deep at all..In fact,I dont even have to defend Benning anymore....Under the umbrella of the young team he is constructing, ...Benning is not even having to answer 'hard' questions anymore.

Posters here are still bleating on about Sbisa,Vey,Lack etc...Get over it..its 2019.

 

[tyhee]

Looking back at the 2015 draft, most teams concede the Canucks rated Boeser higher than anyone else. ....

Could you provide a source for this? This is the first time I"ve ever seen anything suggesting any teams, let alone most, have made this concession.

... This has turned out to be a huge steal for them.

It's a really good pick, no doubt, but I think he approximately where he was ranked. Some had him considerably higher, many slightly lower.

So the question becomes whether taking a player approximately where he was ranked, late in the first round, "a huge steal?"

At 2015 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings you can see 12 different pre-draft rankings.

Craig Button at TSN had Boeser #9, both Ryan Kennedy of THN and Shane Malloy of Art of Scouting had him #14, McKenzie and Future Considerations 26th, McKeens, MacDonald of THW and Damien Cox on Sportsnet 27th.

Ryan Pike's final rankings at The Hockey Writers had him at #26 and said "Craig Button really likes this kid, ranking him 8th in April, but every other service has him in the late first round." https://thehockeywriters.com/2015-nhl-draft-alternate-rankings-final-edition/

The 2015 first round is looking spectacular. A little over three years in and McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Provorov, Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, Connor, Chabot and Boeser are all looking like stars and a few others are looking solid, plus 2nd rounder Sebastian Aho already has 49 and 65 pt seasons to his credit and is over 1 ppg so far this season.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The GDT turned into the management thread in a hurry...lol

 

[Jimnastic]

Let me just get this straight. You are extremely defensive and pro-Benning, and MS is extremely critical and against Benning. Jim Benning has managed this team over the last five or so years during which time this team has essentially being, perhaps, the worst team in the entire NHL. But in your view, MS is "radically obsessive,..and infantile"? Based on objective data, do you understand how delusional you sound? Shouldn't we all be very critical of Benning?



Do you understand that the NHL rewards failure and that is why we have Pettersson? Benning's own incompetence has landed him four straight top picks. The first two look bad, the third looks great, and the fourth is too early to tell. Evidence suggests that he wasn't the driving force on the third pick, but even then, when you are only batting one out of three on top picks you are not doing a good job anyway. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

I am tempted to spend some time looking at other teams HFBoards fan bases and see if they have the same number of whiners and bitchers we have in the Canucks virtual stands. The Canucks have had pretty bad luck in drafting overall (starting with Dale Talon instead of Gilbert Perrault) and had incompetent management in their early years (worst trade in NHL history). However, more recent Canuck management has made a couple of brilliant plays as well, namely Bure and the Sedins. We built a magnificent team around 2010 and were unlucky not to get Lord Stanley. Of course that had to be followed by a rebuilding phase. That almost certainly had to result in a weaker team for the next five years at least. We were first in the division 7 out of 10 years from 2003. It was a great time to watch hockey. Everyone (should have) knew that we were going to have a tough time for several years.
We have been damned lucky to be in the shape we are in in 2019. We have likely got the next superstar and a great sniper with a lot of young talent coming through.
Let's just enjoy the ride.
Oh, right. You whiners and naysayers only get your cheap thrills from complaining.

 

[Ryp37]

Could you provide a source for this? This is the first time I"ve ever seen anything suggesting any teams, let alone most, have made this concession.



It's a really good pick, no doubt, but I think he approximately where he was ranked. Some had him considerably higher, many slightly lower.

So the question becomes whether taking a player approximately where he was ranked, late in the first round, "a huge steal?"

At 2015 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings you can see 12 different pre-draft rankings.

Craig Button at TSN had Boeser #9, both Ryan Kennedy of THN and Shane Malloy of Art of Scouting had him #14, McKenzie and Future Considerations 26th, McKeens, MacDonald of THW and Damien Cox on Sportsnet 27th.

Ryan Pike's final rankings at The Hockey Writers had him at #26 and said "Craig Button really likes this kid, ranking him 8th in April, but every other service has him in the late first round." https://thehockeywriters.com/2015-nhl-draft-alternate-rankings-final-edition/

The 2015 first round is looking spectacular. A little over three years in and McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Provorov, Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, Connor, Chabot and Boeser are all looking like stars and a few others are looking solid, plus 2nd rounder Sebastian Aho already has 49 and 65 pt seasons to his credit and is over 1 ppg so far this season.

Friedmans words not mine

 

[sting101]

Such a lifeless game last night. Watched it this morning as i was enjoying the Bronze and Gold games yesterday at the Rog. By comparison just no emotion speed and very lackluster.

Horvat has hit a bit of a wall. Hands and creativity has been relatively poor. Still working his tail off and he will find himself soon with a nice stretch of games at home and the all star break not that far off. Just too much on an island lately

Boeser was really working hard in this one which was nice to see. Would like to see him start shooting a little quicker

Baertschi Sutter Granlund Goldobin and Eriksson were all terrible and provided no spark talent or effort worth praising. Just going through the motions in this one....especially Eriksson and his brutal effort. 6 milllion yowza. Sutter and Baertschi get a little leway due to being off for long stretches. Its games like these that remind me of something a friend of mine who is a WHL scout used to say when looking at players. "If you aren't getting on the scoresheet i wanta see 5 things minimum that effect the game. 5 hits, shots, blocks, minutes(a fighting major) takeaways and any combinations that add up to 5 or more....have some sort of impact". These players all too often dont meet these thresholds yet get a lot of playing time and this is negatively effecting this team especially in the top 3 lines

Virtanen i liked in this game had some jump, was driving some play and made some good passes. For all the talk of getting garbage flukey goals i think he's been really unlucky this road trip.

4th line is useless once were down a couple goals

Edler Tanev were solid as usual lately and i like how aggressive Edlers shooting has become

Hutton and Gudbranson didnt deserve -4/-5...poor goaltending a nice deflection, a bad bounce a wraparound that was played poorly by Markstrom and Pouliot getting embarrassed by a rookie.

Pouliot wasnt that terrible except for his 1st period which is the issue ..... he gets badly beaten so often it's suprising he's still playing as a NHL regular. Stecher was awful

Markstrom was bound to have a bad game eventually

 

[M2Beezy]

Might as well put BaeBoBoe back together for a few games and put Gold with Sutter and Virtanen, then maybe Roussell Beagle and Leivo together, then shoot Granlund to the Moon and call up Gaunce and have him between Clamato and Eriksson/Try Out

 

[Peter10]

Posters here are still bleating on about Sbisa,Vey,Lack etc...Get over it..its 2019.

Dont be concerned, with the likes of Gudbranson, Pouliot, Del Zotto, Eriksson, Granlund, Beagle, Schaller on the roster there is still more than enough material to criticize Benning for the terrible job he is doing.

 

[Hit the post]

Get over it..its 2019.

blah, blah, blah.....blame Gillis. Get over it...it's 2019 and Gilligan was fired *OVER FOUR SEASONS AGO*

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

blah, blah, blah.....blame Gillis. Get over it...it's 2019 and Gilligan was fired *OVER FOUR SEASONS AGO*

I'm well over it my friend..I'm totally happy with where our team is at (in this transition period) ,and where it's headed..I'm not the one with the gripes here..