GDT: Game 43 @ Ottawa 1pm

[TheBeard]

Am actually a little surprised it didn’t come back.

Why would that clown take a timeout?? 4 seconds left haha.

Can’t exactly save it for OT now can he.

 

[hohosaregood]

Bailey actually had terrible body position if he was looking to box out Tarasenko. Of course he was going to go off balance initiating body contact like that.

 

[Karl Prime]

I don't know what it says about Montreal when SJ had the same amount of shots on Thursday. This was more in line with what you'd expect in the shot counter for a team that spends a lot of time running around in their own zone.

 

[timorous me]

Good to see Brodie and Demers are just as drunk as everyone else watching this game

JD in studio adds to the watchability of Sharks games exponentially. Goddamn, to be that handsome and funny feels unfair.

I especially loved when they were talking about Tarasenko he just muttered, "I hate that guy."

Bailey actually had terrible body position if he was looking to box out Tarasenko. Of course he was going to go off balance initiating body contact like that.

To be as big as Bailey is and still get knocked like three feet into your own goalie in that situation is, uh, not good.

 

[DG93]

Tank rolls on, good shit

Also, how is Ottawa this bad when they already have multiple players with 12+ goals (Tkachuk, Batherson, Giroux, Norris), Stuetzle on pace for 70+ points, and Tarasenko/Chuchryn on pace for 50-55 points? I know that Chabot has missed a lot of games and Korpisalo sucks ass, but is their defense that bad? That top-6 is really good and is producing...odd

 

[mogambomoroo]

Ottawa should be so much better than they are in the standings, I guess their division is also really hard. Hopefully we can get one of their defencemen for cheap, if they go selling.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The Sharks really have tanking down to a science. Isn’t this like the third or fourth time that we’ve been tied and then lost with less than a minute left in regulation? Seriously, this team really learned their lesson from last year (where they snatched too many loser points and ended up outside the top-3).

 

[coooldude]

The Sharks really have tanking down to a science. Isn’t this like the third or fourth time that we’ve been tied and then lost with less than a minute left in regulation? Seriously, this team really learned their lesson from last year (where they snatched too many loser points and ended up outside the top-3).

To be fair, we also had a miracle week where we came back from 3 goal deficits and tied it up with goalie pulled, but November feels like another season entirely.

 

[Anomie2029]

I see Quinn is back on his “lack of compete” line again, meanwhile teams continue to exploit the awful D-Zone system that constantly leaves the weak side open.

 

[timorous me]

I see Quinn is back on his “lack of compete” line again, meanwhile teams continue to exploit the awful D-Zone system that constantly leaves the weak side open.

I would say that it's all of the above and more. The system, the compete level, but also simply the ability of players out there.

I thought Demers explained it well when he said it's such a problem to have guys exhausting themselves defending for such long periods of time because they end up just handing the puck back to the opponent because they don't have any energy to do more. And as JD said, the center has to do too much defending so they can't contribute to breaking out and creating offense.

It just becomes this never-ending circle of despair, basically. But what can you do when you have too many defensemen who can't clear their zones--they struggle in terms of skating ability, passing ability, puck possession, and/or poise on the puck. And physicality--the ability to win battles, which might partly be about compete, but also is about size and strength.

And you've got too many forwards who are deficient in similar regards. With them, it's also partly defensive engagement and effort. Quite the cocktail of negativity there! I guess that's how you end up outshot by more than a 2-1 margin by the worst team in the Eastern Conference.

To be fair, we also had a miracle week where we came back from 3 goal deficits and tied it up with goalie pulled, but November feels like another season entirely.

The season has been so brutal it just seems that long ago--those games weren't actually until December. Last month!

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Wow LaBanc and Vlasic scored in the same game? I’m speechless

3-1 shanks because they owe me one

I’m going 3-1 until they win with that score lol

 

[Anomie2029]

I would say that it's all of the above and more. The system, the compete level, but also simply the ability of players out there.

I thought Demers explained it well when he said it's such a problem to have guys exhausting themselves defending for such long periods of time because they end up just handing the puck back to the opponent because they don't have any energy to do more. And as JD said, the center has to do too much defending so they can't contribute to breaking out and creating offense.

It just becomes this never-ending circle of despair, basically. But what can you do when you have too many defensemen who can't clear their zones--they struggle in terms of skating ability, passing ability, puck possession, and/or poise on the puck. And physicality--the ability to win battles, which might partly be about compete, but also is about size and strength.

And you've got too many forwards who are deficient in similar regards. With them, it's also partly defensive engagement and effort. Quite the cocktail of negativity there! I guess that's how you end up outshot by more than a 2-1 margin by the worst team in the Eastern Conference.

Noone is ever going to attempt to suggest that the players are of high quality. But I'd suggest that with those players, you need to make your system work with what you have rather than try to force players into a system that doesn't suit them. Regardless, I'd argue that Quinn's system wouldn't even work with a great roster.

Teams are easily hemming the Sharks in and exploiting the flaws in the D-Zone system. Look at most of the goals conceded in the last few weeks, and you will see players on the weak side getting the puck and having time and space. However, this space given is also why teams are able to hem the Sharks in. If they're in trouble - they know where the open player is and can almost aimlessly send the puck there knowing they'd get to the free puck.

In the instances the Sharks do get possession they are either too exhausted, as you mentioned, and just give away the puck or just can't get it out of the zone with possession. They can't get it out because even if they win the puck, they aren't in a position to quickly break out. They're crowded on the one side of the ice, the center is frequently below the goal line and isn't an option, etc.

I have no idea how an NHL coach can continue to watch it and not change it. That being said, this is the same coach that has watched the PK be complete and utter dogshit and made zero changes. This team will lose enough games based on the roster, but persisting with the same systems are really ensuring this team is not only losing, but depressing to watch too.

 

[coooldude]

It just becomes this never-ending circle of despair, basically. But what can you do when you have too many defensemen who can't clear their zones--they struggle in terms of skating ability, passing ability, puck possession, and/or poise on the puck. And physicality--the ability to win battles, which might partly be about compete, but also is about size and strength.

It is incredible that this is true, but the team really does miss Benning and Emberson when they're out. They, and Addison, are the only D men who can somewhat (somewhat) reliably make a play on the puck that isn't just a chip out for a line change after an extended period hemmed in the zone.

Ferraro flashed some nice passing in the OZ today, but he definitely flubs pucks in his own zone. Okhotiuk I like, but he makes a lot of mistakes when he has a chance to control puck and find a play in his own zone and his bad advanced stats are likely because those are very costly turnovers. Rutta is Rutta, Burroughs same. Vlasic made a few nice breakout passes today but typically is chasing the puck and not fast/explosive enough to give himself space to make a play in the DZ.

It's bad y'all. The system isn't helping but the players also significantly hurt. I'm not sure if a different system would do much better, because better teams will just pass and skate around a more fluid system until it breaks down, and get even higher danger chances. I dunno. I just don't see much of a way out of it other than 40 more mostly brutal games.

Then 82 more next year

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Noone is ever going to attempt to suggest that the players are of high quality. But I'd suggest that with those players, you need to make your system work with what you have rather than try to force players into a system that doesn't suit them. Regardless, I'd argue that Quinn's system wouldn't even work with a great roster.

Teams are easily hemming the Sharks in and exploiting the flaws in the D-Zone system. Look at most of the goals conceded in the last few weeks, and you will see players on the weak side getting the puck and having time and space. However, this space given is also why teams are able to hem the Sharks in. If they're in trouble - they know where the open player is and can almost aimlessly send the puck there knowing they'd get to the free puck.

I'm ready to be on the Fire Quinn bandwagon just by watching whatever system this is. It looks like the Sharks are always killing a penalty, even if it was 5 on 5. That last goal was predictable because the Sharks couldn't even do the basic stuff right, and it was something that was happening all game long. I guess they don't have the players of high quality, but isn't it on the coach to play to whatever strengths the players do have? Isn't it up the coach and assistant staff to coach up these guys on the basics and find out where they could actually achieve even a hint of success? The Sharks spent all game long chasing, and the shot counter just shows that's most of the games they play. I don't think even a better roster could be successful under this system. Also, Quinn should be a lame duck coach anyway. I don't want him coaching the next generation of Sharks talent. That's the whole reason we are going through this rebuild, to build a core the likes of what we had with Pavelski, Marleau and Thornton for all those years.

 

[drunksage]

SNOG announcement​

We weren't close to a SNOG today.

Spoiler: First half SNOG results

#	Date / Opponent​	SNOG Winner(s)​	Result​
1	Oct. 12 vs Golden Knights	NewMuzu24, weastern bias	VGK 4-1
2	Oct. 14 vs Avalanche	none	Avs 2-1 SO
3	Oct. 17 vs Hurricanes	TheBeard	Canes 6-3
4	Oct. 19 vs Bruins	none	Bruins 3-1
5	Oct. 21 at Predators	none	Predators 5-1
6	Oct. 24 at Panthers	weastern bias	Panthers 3-1
7	Oct. 26 at Lightning	Red Light Lover	Lightning 6-0
8	Oct. 27 at Hurricanes	PattyLafontaine	Canes 3-0
9	Oct. 29 at Capitals	none	Capitals 3-1
10	Nov. 2 vs Canucks	none	Canucks 10-1
11	Nov. 4 vs Penguins	none	Penguins 10-2
12	Nov. 7 vs Flyers	Red Light Lover	Sharks 2-1
13	Nov. 9 vs Oilers	none	Sharks 3-2
14	Nov. 10 at Golden Knights	none	VGK 5-0
15	Nov. 12 at Ducks	Skeksis25	Ducks 4-1
16	Nov. 14 vs Panthers	none	Panthers 5-3
17	Nov. 16 vs Blues	none	Sharks 5-1
18	Nov. 20 at Canucks	none	Canucks 3-1
19	Nov. 22 at Kraken	none	Kraken 7-1
20	Nov. 24 vs Canadiens	hockeyCEO, timorous me	Canadiens 3-2 SO
21	Nov. 25 vs Canucks	none	Sharks 4-3
22	Nov. 27 vs Capitals	none	Sharks 2-1
23	Nov. 30 at Bruins	none	Bruins 3-0
24	Dec. 1 at Devils	none	Sharks 6-3
25	Dec. 3 at Rangers	none	Rangers 6-5
26	Dec. 5 at Islanders	Great Makohead Shork	Sharks 5-4 OT
27	Dec. 7 at Red Wings	none	Sharks 6-5 OT
28	Dec. 10 at Golden Knights	none	VGK 5-4 SO
29	Dec. 12 vs Jets	none	Sharks 2-1
30	Dec. 15 at Coyotes	none	Coyotes 1-0
31	Dec. 17 at Avalanche	none	Avalanche 6-2
32	Dec. 19 vs Kings	coooldude	Kings 4-1
33	Dec. 21 vs Coyotes	none	Coyotes 5-2
34	Dec. 23 at Canucks	none	Canucks 7-4
35	Dec. 27 at Kings	none	Kings 5-1
36	Dec. 28 vs Oilers	none	Oilers 5-0
37	Dec. 31 at Avalanche	none	Avalanche 3-1
38	Jan. 2 vs Red Wings	none	Red Wings 5-3
39	Jan. 4 vs Jets	none	Jets 2-1
40	Jan. 6 vs Maple Leafs	fasterthanlight	Maple Leafs 4-1
41	Jan. 9 at Maple Leafs	none	Maple Leafs 7-1

Second half SNOG results

#	Date / Opponent	SNOG Winner(s)​	Result
42	Jan. 11 at Canadiens	Chinaski89	Sharks 3-2
43	Jan. 13 at Senators	none	Senators 5-4

Rank	2023-24 SNOG standings​	# of SNOGs
T-1.	Red Light Lover, weastern bias	2
T-3.	Chinaski89, coooldude, fasterthanlight, Great Makohead Shork, hockeyCEO, NewMuzu24, PattyLafontaine, Skeksis25, TheBeard, timorous me	1

 

[timorous me]

Noone is ever going to attempt to suggest that the players are of high quality. But I'd suggest that with those players, you need to make your system work with what you have rather than try to force players into a system that doesn't suit them. Regardless, I'd argue that Quinn's system wouldn't even work with a great roster.

Teams are easily hemming the Sharks in and exploiting the flaws in the D-Zone system. Look at most of the goals conceded in the last few weeks, and you will see players on the weak side getting the puck and having time and space. However, this space given is also why teams are able to hem the Sharks in. If they're in trouble - they know where the open player is and can almost aimlessly send the puck there knowing they'd get to the free puck.

In the instances the Sharks do get possession they are either too exhausted, as you mentioned, and just give away the puck or just can't get it out of the zone with possession. They can't get it out because even if they win the puck, they aren't in a position to quickly break out. They're crowded on the one side of the ice, the center is frequently below the goal line and isn't an option, etc.

I have no idea how an NHL coach can continue to watch it and not change it. That being said, this is the same coach that has watched the PK be complete and utter dogshit and made zero changes. This team will lose enough games based on the roster, but persisting with the same systems are really ensuring this team is not only losing, but depressing to watch too.

No arguments there. I'm someone who watches a lot of Rangers games and was here in New York for the full Quinn experience, so while I'm sure he's grown as a head coach, I don't have faith in his system, though I do tend to like him as a person and a communicator. And I like that he's not being shy about letting some kids play, particularly on defense, this year even when it means taking some lumps.

In terms of depressing, this feels close to Boughner's last season for me, but with the added positive of guys like Eklund, Thrun, Okhotiuk, and Emberson in the lineup. I really disliked the system Boughner employed that year because it was one that maximized points but was so negative--especially considering Karlsson was in the lineup, so it negated all his positive qualities--that it was brutal to watch. (Doesn't mean it wasn't better than Quinn's, but if we've got kids in the lineup I don't want them being that negative--but we're falling into that trap lately anyway, even with Quinn's system.)

 

[TheBeard]

I'm ready to be on the Fire Quinn bandwagon just by watching whatever system this is. It looks like the Sharks are always killing a penalty, even if it was 5 on 5. That last goal was predictable because the Sharks couldn't even do the basic stuff right, and it was something that was happening all game long. I guess they don't have the players of high quality, but isn't it on the coach to play to whatever strengths the players do have? Isn't it up the coach and assistant staff to coach up these guys on the basics and find out where they could actually achieve even a hint of success? The Sharks spent all game long chasing, and the shot counter just shows that's most of the games they play. I don't think even a better roster could be successful under this system. Also, Quinn should be a lame duck coach anyway. I don't want him coaching the next generation of Sharks talent. That's the whole reason we are going through this rebuild, to build a core the likes of what we had with Pavelski, Marleau and Thornton for all those years.

Unless you're bringing in new guys, especially on the back end, the results will be the same no matter who's coaching.

 

[Anomie2029]

Unless you're bringing in new guys, especially on the back end, the results will be the same no matter who's coaching.

I have no idea how an NHL coach can continue to watch it and not change it. That being said, this is the same coach that has watched the PK be complete and utter dogshit and made zero changes. This team will lose enough games based on the roster, but persisting with the same systems are really ensuring this team is not only losing, but depressing to watch too.

No one is claiming this roster is good or would be winning games.

 

[Super Cake]

Tank rolls on, good shit

Also, how is Ottawa this bad when they already have multiple players with 12+ goals (Tkachuk, Batherson, Giroux, Norris), Stuetzle on pace for 70+ points, and Tarasenko/Chuchryn on pace for 50-55 points? I know that Chabot has missed a lot of games and Korpisalo sucks ass, but is their defense that bad? That top-6 is really good and is producing...odd

Ottawa should be so much better than they are in the standings, I guess their division is also really hard. Hopefully we can get one of their defencemen for cheap, if they go selling.

As a Sens fan, they had a loser coach for 5 straight years that didn't know how to coach defense. Stu, Brady, Batherson and most of our other players have only played under Dj Smith. Now we are stuck with trying to get them to actually learn how to play defense when it might actually be too late to teach them. Our team can score, but when you don't have a good defensive structure or don't even attempt to play defense, than this crap is what you get.

 

[DG93]

I'm ready to be on the Fire Quinn bandwagon just by watching whatever system this is. It looks like the Sharks are always killing a penalty, even if it was 5 on 5. That last goal was predictable because the Sharks couldn't even do the basic stuff right, and it was something that was happening all game long. I guess they don't have the players of high quality, but isn't it on the coach to play to whatever strengths the players do have? Isn't it up the coach and assistant staff to coach up these guys on the basics and find out where they could actually achieve even a hint of success? The Sharks spent all game long chasing, and the shot counter just shows that's most of the games they play. I don't think even a better roster could be successful under this system. Also, Quinn should be a lame duck coach anyway. I don't want him coaching the next generation of Sharks talent. That's the whole reason we are going through this rebuild, to build a core the likes of what we had with Pavelski, Marleau and Thornton for all those years.

The good news is Quinn's contract ending after the 2024-2025 season lines up nicely with when the next wave of prospects hopefully starts to come in. They'll hopefully get two top-3 picks out of it with Quinn coaching this year and next year. He's a solid communicator and not a bad coach for the rebuild. Also, there really isn't much potential for prospects joining next year, so it'll be more of the same next season...and I'm not too worried about Eklund. After these two seasons, they can then "part ways" and bring in a new coach in 2025-2026 when hopefully Smith, Musty, and the top-3 pick from 2024 will be ready to join the NHL club.

 

[exchequer]

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that if the Sharks eventually turn this around, it’s not going to be David Quinn leading the helm.

 

[exchequer]

No arguments there. I'm someone who watches a lot of Rangers games and was here in New York for the full Quinn experience, so while I'm sure he's grown as a head coach, I don't have faith in his system, though I do tend to like him as a person and a communicator. And I like that he's not being shy about letting some kids play, particularly on defense, this year even when it means taking some lumps.

In terms of depressing, this feels close to Boughner's last season for me, but with the added positive of guys like Eklund, Thrun, Okhotiuk, and Emberson in the lineup. I really disliked the system Boughner employed that year because it was one that maximized points but was so negative--especially considering Karlsson was in the lineup, so it negated all his positive qualities--that it was brutal to watch. (Doesn't mean it wasn't better than Quinn's, but if we've got kids in the lineup I don't want them being that negative--but we're falling into that trap lately anyway, even with Quinn's system.)

Boogie had EK, Burns, and Timo Meier in additional to the current suspects but the rest of the roster…was just bad…Merks, Dahlen, Balcers, Meloche…and a basically bunch of AHLers…

The defensive talent is way worse this year but the most of the forwards legit belong in the NHL at least.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Perfect tank game. Loved every minute of it.

 

[timorous me]

Perfect tank game. Loved every minutes of it.

A classic four-pointer in the race to the bottom, with all the entertainment you could ask for. Not to mention...

LIVE SPORTS!

 

[OrrNumber4]

Ottawa and Anaheim are good examples of how the "burn it to the ground" strategy often doesn't work. I mean, it isn't even like Anaheim really whiffed in any of their picks, did they? They just didn't have lottery luck.

I'm probably very late to the game in that observation. But given all the prospects and picks they've had...in 2018-2020 who would have bet both teams would have zero playoff games in that span?