GDT: Game 41 | Hurricanes @ Blue Jackets | 1/12 7pm

[JacketsDavid]

That’s what rebuilding teams do.

Lot of it is projections.

A top4 signing and just kids getting older should improve them by a mile.

Columbus has one of the prospect pools in the league and could have the best by next summer.
They all aren't just going to bust

But how is that different than the past 20 seasons? After about year 3 we always had a top 10 prospect pool (which naturally happens due to draft position IMO). Except for a couple years when we traded first round picks, we've always built the prospect pool.
My point is our development isn't great. We've had consistent top 10 picks - Nash was great, others have been ok, some have busted. I just don't think counting on the CBJ to develop players is a wining strategy.

 

[DJA]

They just can’t continue forever to be this injured.

& Jiricek& Johnson are legit prospects/young players but for the start of this season were too young.

Jarmo was after lot of different players last offseason and I would assume that’s going to continue, he’s not going to go through an entire offseason without adding players

This is the CBJ we’re talking about. Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong. I’ll forgive you because you haven’t been around long enough to fully comprehend the Circle of Suck of this franchise.

 

[BB88]

But how is that different than the past 20 seasons? After about year 3 we always had a top 10 prospect pool (which naturally happens due to draft position IMO). Except for a couple years when we traded first round picks, we've always built the prospect pool.
My point is our development isn't great. We've had consistent top 10 picks - Nash was great, others have been ok, some have busted. I just don't think counting on the CBJ to develop players is a wining strategy.

Columbus has never had this much talent in their youth group.
There’s a big difference being top10 and top3 if the leading prospects are Johnson/Jiricek and whoever top prospect they are landing.

On top of it they have a superstar in his prime in Gaudreau, 1D in Werenski as well as Laine locked in to a contract

Tell me how does Jiricek look bad or concerning right now?
Everything about him scream elite prospect. Johnson looks extremely promising.
That’s the 2 most important positions they could both address and it’s not just about well wishes, they’ve earned the expectations with their play.

 

[BB88]

This is the CBJ we’re talking about. Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong. I’ll forgive you because you haven’t been around long enough to fully comprehend the Circle of Suck of this franchise.

I just can’t look at Jiricek and think he’s suddenly going to forget how to play hockey.

Johnson is on pace for 40+ points as a rookie in this injury mess.
The top of this draft looks so damm good, better than for years.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

But how is that different than the past 20 seasons? After about year 3 we always had a top 10 prospect pool (which naturally happens due to draft position IMO). Except for a couple years when we traded first round picks, we've always built the prospect pool.
My point is our development isn't great. We've had consistent top 10 picks - Nash was great, others have been ok, some have busted. I just don't think counting on the CBJ to develop players is a wining strategy.

For the record, I do think developing players "SHOULD" be the winning strategy. We have just not shown we are good at that. Our best prospect pool ever developed in Cleveland and won a Calder. It led to some of the best years of this team. Since then we've had no consistency on prospect development.

We've had random Jarmo touted prospects playing for various European teams and Cleveland filled with a bunch of has beens and never will bes. I think this year has had an actual effort to use Cleveland for better development before they all ended up here due to injury. Maybe next year will be different but I'll choose to be pessimistic about it because they haven't shown me enough to make me believe the results will be any different.

 

[MoeBartoli]

How am I gonna get a free car wash if these guys keep taking penalties????!!!

Just got back from the Moo Moo.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Columbus has never had this much talent in their youth group.
There’s a big difference being top10 and top3 if the leading prospects are Johnson/Jiricek and whoever top prospect they are landing.

On top of it they have a superstar in his prime in Gaudreau, 1D in Werenski as well as Laine locked in to a contract

Tell me how does Jiricek look bad or concerning right now?
Everything about him scream elite prospect. Johnson looks extremely promising.
That’s the 2 most important positions they could both address and it’s not just about well wishes, they’ve earned the expectations with their play.

Columbus has always had 2-5 first round picks in the system (except for the first 2 years). 15 picks inside the top 10. 26 total first round pick.
Look at 2000-2008 - 9 picks all in top 8 I would argue on paper that is stronger than our current group.
But the other thing is outside of Nash we have a few good NHL players (Klesla, Jake, RyJo, Werenski notably) several other quickly flamed out and others never really worked out. THat's my point on our development record.

Klesla pick #4 in 2000
LeClaire pick #8 in 2001
Nash #1 in 2002
Zherdev #4 in 2003
Picard pick #8 in 2004
Brule pick #6 in 2005
Brassard pick #6 in 2006
Voarack pick #7 in 2007
Filatov pick #8 in 2008
Moore pick #21 in 2009
Johansen pick #4 in 2010
2011 - NONE
Murray pick #2 in 2012
Wenneburg pick #14 in 2013
Rychel pick #19 in 2013
Dano pick #27 in 2013
Milano pick #16 in 2014
Werenski pick #8 in 2015
Carlsson pick #29 in 2015
PLD pick #3 in 2016
2017 - NONE
Foudy pick #18 in 2018
2019 - NONE
Chinakhov pick #21 in 2020
KJ pick #5 in 2021
Sillinger pick #12 in 2021
Ceulemans pick #25 in 2021
Jiricke pick #6 in 2022
Mateychuk pick #12 in 2022

 

[LJ7]

What does all of this have to do with the current prospect pool? The only thing Rick Nash matters for is the fact he's the director of player development.

 

[BB88]

Columbus has always had 2-5 first round picks in the system (except for the first 2 years). 15 picks inside the top 10. 26 total first round pick.
Look at 2000-2008 - 9 picks all in top 8 I would argue on paper that is stronger than our current group.
But the other thing is outside of Nash we have a few good NHL players (Klesla, Jake, RyJo, Werenski notably) several other quickly flamed out and others never really worked out. THat's my point on our development record.

Klesla pick #4 in 2000
LeClaire pick #8 in 2001
Nash #1 in 2002
Zherdev #4 in 2003
Picard pick #8 in 2004
Brule pick #6 in 2005
Brassard pick #6 in 2006
Voarack pick #7 in 2007
Filatov pick #8 in 2008
Moore pick #21 in 2009
Johansen pick #4 in 2010
2011 - NONE
Murray pick #2 in 2012
Wenneburg pick #14 in 2013
Rychel pick #19 in 2013
Dano pick #27 in 2013
Milano pick #16 in 2014
Werenski pick #8 in 2015
Carlsson pick #29 in 2015
PLD pick #3 in 2016
2017 - NONE
Foudy pick #18 in 2018
2019 - NONE
Chinakhov pick #21 in 2020
KJ pick #5 in 2021
Sillinger pick #12 in 2021
Ceulemans pick #25 in 2021
Jiricke pick #6 in 2022
Mateychuk pick #12 in 2022

We aren’t just purely talking about picks.

We are talking about actual players Columbus has selected.

Post draft everything Jiricek has done has been elite, he’s having a rare +1 season for a drafted Dman.
You could call him a franchise prospect with his play and in a way too early redraft a favourite for 1st overall.

So based on his game post draft what exactly screams for concerns on him ending up as a bust so far?
Johnson looks extremely promising, just based on his actual play, Marchenko, Chinakhov look very promising as well.

Why should there be massive hysteria around the idea Columbus can’t develop right now and they’ll all bust?

 

[JacketsDavid]

We aren’t just purely talking about picks.

We are talking about actual players Columbus has selected.

Tell me what has Jiricek done to scream he’s likely going to bust?
Tell me how many times have they had a Jiricek caliber Dman in their system and how did it end up?
Werenski? And what is he?

Everything about Jiricek screams a franchise Dprospect even after Columbus drafting him.
Johnson looks extremely promising, Marchenko seems like a damm good find

Klesla and J Moore?

Both played in NHL but neither were elite as dmen.

 

[BB88]

Klesla and J Moore?

Both played in NHL but neither were elite as dmen.

Did they have a +1 season like Jiricek?
You know how rare it is for a Dman go ppg in his +1 season? and he put up monster numbers at the u20

Werenski is similar to Jiricek and he’s a 1D at the NHL level

Edit
It also makes zero sense to bring up players from 15-20 years ago when they have nothing to do with this Columbus team

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Did they have a +1 season like Jiricek?
You know how rare it is for a Dman go ppg in his +1 season? and he put up monster numbers at the u20

Werenski is similar to Jiricek and he’s a 1D at the NHL level

Edit
It also makes zero sense to bring up players from 15-20 years ago when they have nothing to do with this Columbus team

What you are saying is rational and obviously defensible. But it's hard to get buy-in after so many years of unfulfilled promise and lackluster results. I think "I'll believe it when I see it" is fair and I can understand "and I don't really expect to see it".

 

[majormajor]

Klesla and J Moore?

Both played in NHL but neither were elite as dmen.

I'm sorry I don't remember them going point per game in the AHL the year after their draft, or being the top D at the WJC. Not a good comparison group.

 

[BB88]

What you are saying is rational and obviously defensible. But it's hard to get buy-in after so many years of unfulfilled promise and lackluster results. I think "I'll believe it when I see it" is fair and I can understand "and I don't really expect to see it".

I mean I understand the past.

What I don’t understand is watching them actually play at an elite level and just think they’ll bust because other inferior prospects have.

Jiricek has been drafted by Columbus yet ”still” he’s having a monster season in the AHL and was a monster at the WJC.
So if that’s Columbus messing up his development sign me up

 

[Crede777]

1. "Top 10 pick" doesn't mean anything. In a typical draft year, there's a BIG difference between the guy drafted 1 and the guy drafted 5. Unless we're talking about a #1, #2, or sometimes a #3 pick it's all a big crapshoot.

2. Management, coaching, scouting, and player development have all turned over since Klesla and Moore were selected. If we want to talk about picks getting squandered, we should probably start in 2013 which was the first full draft under current management. Between then and today, we have four players drafted in the top-10. Werenski, PLD, Johnson, and Jiricek. Again, refer to #1 above about how I think there's major differences in expectations even amongst #3 overall (PLD) and #8 overall (Werenski) but I find it hard to argue that any of those players are misses in terms of drafting and development.

3. 2013 is interesting for another reason - in the 2012-2013 season (which was shortened by a lockout), last year's Stanley Cup winners the Colorado Avalanche finished last in the Western Conference and 2nd to last in the league with a 40% points percentage. They drafted franchise center Nathan Mackinnon 1st overall. They made the playoffs in 2014 and exited the 1st round. Then in 2015, 2016, and 2017 they missed the playoffs. In 2017, they had the worst record in the NHL and ended up drafting last year's Norris and Conn Smythe winner Cale Makar 3rd overall.

Honestly, I'm don't see the cause for alarm here. Jarmo has shown an ability to draft and develop high picks. Further, the strategy of bouncing between being competitive and bottoming out clearly can work - See Colorado and then Chicago and Pittsburgh before them.

He isn't perfect. This is a cap squeezed roster that is bottoming out. He did sign Gudbranson. He did move Bjorkstrand. He has made some bad picks (particularly between 15-35). And I don't like his coaching selection with Brad Larsen. But in terms of judging his ability to draft and develop, he did it once with PLD and Werenski and got us to an 100 point season. He could do it again.

 

[rotsbu]

Columbus has always had 2-5 first round picks in the system (except for the first 2 years). 15 picks inside the top 10. 26 total first round pick.
Look at 2000-2008 - 9 picks all in top 8 I would argue on paper that is stronger than our current group.
But the other thing is outside of Nash we have a few good NHL players (Klesla, Jake, RyJo, Werenski notably) several other quickly flamed out and others never really worked out. THat's my point on our development record.

Klesla pick #4 in 2000
LeClaire pick #8 in 2001
Nash #1 in 2002
Zherdev #4 in 2003
Picard pick #8 in 2004
Brule pick #6 in 2005
Brassard pick #6 in 2006
Voarack pick #7 in 2007
Filatov pick #8 in 2008
Moore pick #21 in 2009
Johansen pick #4 in 2010
2011 - NONE
Murray pick #2 in 2012
Wenneburg pick #14 in 2013
Rychel pick #19 in 2013
Dano pick #27 in 2013
Milano pick #16 in 2014
Werenski pick #8 in 2015
Carlsson pick #29 in 2015
PLD pick #3 in 2016
2017 - NONE
Foudy pick #18 in 2018
2019 - NONE
Chinakhov pick #21 in 2020
KJ pick #5 in 2021
Sillinger pick #12 in 2021
Ceulemans pick #25 in 2021
Jiricke pick #6 in 2022
Mateychuk pick #12 in 2022

Hindsight being 20-20 of course, but I look at this list and come to conclusion the problem was more poor scouting/drafting than development...and the current regimen has done well in drafting with Jiricek, MJ, Marchenko, and likely others to be NHL contributors.

 

[Xoggz22]

Columbus has always had 2-5 first round picks in the system (except for the first 2 years). 15 picks inside the top 10. 26 total first round pick.
Look at 2000-2008 - 9 picks all in top 8 I would argue on paper that is stronger than our current group.
But the other thing is outside of Nash we have a few good NHL players (Klesla, Jake, RyJo, Werenski notably) several other quickly flamed out and others never really worked out. THat's my point on our development record.

Klesla pick #4 in 2000
LeClaire pick #8 in 2001
Nash #1 in 2002
Zherdev #4 in 2003
Picard pick #8 in 2004
Brule pick #6 in 2005
Brassard pick #6 in 2006
Voarack pick #7 in 2007
Filatov pick #8 in 2008
Moore pick #21 in 2009
Johansen pick #4 in 2010
2011 - NONE
Murray pick #2 in 2012
Wenneburg pick #14 in 2013
Rychel pick #19 in 2013
Dano pick #27 in 2013
Milano pick #16 in 2014
Werenski pick #8 in 2015
Carlsson pick #29 in 2015
PLD pick #3 in 2016
2017 - NONE
Foudy pick #18 in 2018
2019 - NONE
Chinakhov pick #21 in 2020
KJ pick #5 in 2021
Sillinger pick #12 in 2021
Ceulemans pick #25 in 2021
Jiricke pick #6 in 2022
Mateychuk pick #12 in 2022

I'll admit, I am jumping in the middle of something I'm not sure about the history in this thread but given it appears (to me, and if I'm way off just tell me to sod off) you are looking at the 1st round picks though history and pointing out the development record for CBJ of 1st round talent. That in mind I thought I would pick another team that I thought might be closer to the other end of the spectrum and had a lot more success for a long period of this 22 years and see what their talent pool developed into...

Yakubov pick #10 in 2000
Vorobiev #11 in 2000
Ruutu #9 in 2001
Munro #29 in 2001
Babchuck #21 in 2002
Seabrook #14 in 2003
Barker #3 in 2004
Skille #7 in 2005
Toews #3 in 2006
Kane #1 in 2007
Beach #11 in 2008
Olsen #28 in 2009
Hayes #24 in 2010
McNeill #11 in 2011
Danault #26 in 2011
Teravainen #18 in 2012
Hartman #30 in 2013
Schmaltz #20 in 2014
2015 - NONE
2016 - NONE
Jokiharju #29 in 2017
Boqvist #8 in 2018
Dach #3 in 2019
Reichel #17 in 2020
Allan #32 in 2021
Korchinski #7 in 2022
Nazar #13 in 2022
Rinzel #25 in 2022

Seabrook, Kane and Toews were developed by Chicago and drivers for their 7 year dominant run, which did not start until after they drafted Toews. Three cups in 7 years but that was two top 3 picks in back to back years and Seabrook at #14. Otherwise, much like the CBJ draft history, I don't see much here that would wow me or say the Blackhawks did any better (or worse) when developing 1st round talent. Granted, it's tough to compare because once they started winning the pick were later in the round or they didn't have one.

Where I think the difference has been for the CBJ is not so much development but the players that surround these young kids. Constant youth has no guide. CBJ, to me, failed in finding the diamonds in the rough and when they did, they had no franchise players - what many on here have been saying for a LONG time - middling and mediocre. Good enough to dance but not good enough to take the guy/girl home. Always the friend.

I'm pissed as hell at this team this year because I have grown tired of the wash, rinse, repeat when it comes to performance, however, I still see the depth in the youth, the higher upside and by god if this was the year to have things go south, thank god because it looks like it could net the one piece we've always dreamed of. Fill a 1C role and I do think the Forward group falls in line. The defense, that's going to take a bit.

 

[Xoggz22]

Speaking of the defense... I chose a bad game to make it my first one back in over a month. ugh. I'm fully understanding of the injury situation but one thing that was very obvious, to me.... this team has a lot of good bottom pair/7th defensemen. Nothing more. The 7 that played last night could not keep up with the pace of play, nor the skill level. Again, I realize this was largely an AHL lineup but not one had the speed/smarts to keep up with top end NHL players.

I know he's coming back from injury but Blanks heart is only going to take him so far. He's a bottom pair guy. That's not a bad thing but the dream/hope/thought of him as a top 4 defensemen the NHL will tell me the CBJ will remain in mediocrity at best on the back end. That's not just from last nights ugly showing, this wasn't much different, again, to me, than other games. Love the energy and the hits but his foot speed, edges and ability to play against top/big players isn't enough for top end of the lineup play. MAtch him against the bottom half and he's a solid play. I'll say the same about Boqvist, only without the banging. His skating is not good enough. His offensive skill may be high end but he's careless with the puck and still not strong enough. He's specialist (and this is unfortunate because I really was high on this guy).

I won't go through each player but from watching the last few games, there is no long term high end defensemen on this current club Gavy is a 2nd pair guy but we really need the Z and someone (praying for Jiricek to fill potential on the RD) to handle the top pair. That was very disheartening to watch overall.

 

[majormajor]

Love the energy and the hits but his foot speed, edges and ability to play against top/big players isn't enough for top end of the lineup play.

I think Blanks is one of the best skaters on the team, well above average in that regard. You sure he didn't just look rough coming off a broken ankle?

 

[Xoggz22]

I think Blanks is one of the best skaters on the team, well above average in that regard. You sure he didn't just look rough coming off a broken ankle?

Entirely possible but if that's the case, why is he playing? He was beat to the outside on multiple occasions and his turns and ability to play the rush was simply not good. The SH goal was only one point but that was terrible (not his fault on the play but he was beaten very badly by Chatfield (a defensemen no less) and, for me, that just summed up his play. I'm not a hater and think he has a place but I've yet to see a top 4 guy potential that some seem to see. Just my opinion.

 

[stevo61]

Entirely possible but if that's the case, why is he playing? He was beat to the outside on multiple occasions and his turns and ability to play the rush was simply not good. The SH goal was only one point but that was terrible (not his fault on the play but he was beaten very badly by Chatfield (a defensemen no less) and, for me, that just summed up his play. I'm not a hater and think he has a place but I've yet to see a top 4 guy potential that some seem to see. Just my opinion.

It takes game action to get into game shape? You are never going to get 100% up to speed in practice and the gym.

 

[domi28]

It takes game action to get into game shape? You are never going to get 100% up to speed in practice and the gym.

"Conditioning assignment to the AHL" seems like a good way to get a guy coming off an injury back up to game speed.

 

[Xoggz22]

It takes game action to get into game shape? You are never going to get 100% up to speed in practice and the gym.

Right, so maybe send him on assignment? Merely observation and, again, for me, he didn't seem like a top 4 guy prior to his injury. I like him, really, I do. He adds that grit on the backend that we severely lack. My point was, like pretty much everyone on our current blue line aside from Gavy, he is another bottom pair guy that brings something others don't. Maybe I'm just catching him on bad days. This entire defensive unit is brutal (forwards and all) so we'll see what the future holds. I still feel he's not Top 4 quality in the NHL. That's all.