GDT: Game 4: Coyotes @ Islanders - 4:00 PM

[XX]

Tempted to write off everything from this game. Clutterbuck said it was the worst ice he's ever seen.

“I give our defense a lot of credit,†Capuano said. “I thought they really had to battle against a good team, bad ice out there. So I was proud of the guys on the back end. And they contributed.â€

And once more with the ice. The most declarative reprimand came from Cal Clutterbuck, whose line with Casey Cizikas and Nikolay Kulemin did a great job in limiting the space for the talented young forward group of the Coyotes (1-3-0), including former Ranger Anthony Duclair.

“In a rink like this where the ice is just awful, that helps,†Clutterbuck said.

Then, in a very matter-of-fact way, Clutterbuck called it “the worst ice I’ve ever seen in my nine years[in the league].â€

http://nypost.com/2016/10/21/islanders-find-way-to-hold-off-coyotes/

 

[MIGs Dog]

Tempted to write off everything from this game. Clutterbuck said it was the worst ice he's ever seen.



http://nypost.com/2016/10/21/islanders-find-way-to-hold-off-coyotes/

Barclay's Center was built in 2010, and Isles announced their move in 2012, so I'm assuming the ice making equipment was put in just for them. How is it that they didn't ensure they met NHL standard, and when did the NHL know it was not up to snuff?

Also saw this on Wikipedia:

Since the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center, there have been numerous complaints about obstructed view seats, due to the fact that the arena was not built with ice hockey in mind. Business Insider has called sections 201 to 204 and 228 to 231, "the worst seat in American professional sports". In an interview with Sports Illustrated, Barclays Center CEO Brett Yormark acknowledged the issue, but insisted nothing can be done: "There's really nothing we’re going to do from a capital improvement standpoint. You can watch the game on your mobile device. The game is on the scoreboard."

Sounds familiar. Crazy to tell fans that bought tickets to watch the game on their phone.

 

[kihekah19*]

Barclay's Center was built in 2010, and Isles announced their move in 2012, so I'm assuming the ice making equipment was put in just for them. How is it that they didn't ensure they met NHL standard, and when did the NHL know it was not up to snuff?
.

It was most likely there prior too (put in when built) for other ice events. I'm certain the arena uses a concrete floor (as opposed to sand based, which no Bueno for b-ball), further reducing the effectiveness of the poly piping. Shame..... soft ice is good for figure skating because it offers more edge control and cushions landings, but is too easily chewed up for hockey.

I have to question 21 degrees as being "ideal" and would think that's more like a maximum, as I've always understood 18 degrees to be ideal. Any ice making gurus out there?

 

[ck26]

I have to question 21 degrees as being "ideal" and would think that's more like a maximum, as I've always understood 18 degrees to be ideal. Any ice making gurus out there?

IIHF says -5 Celsius (23 F) is the maximum allowable. The water running through the pipes is super, super salty to lower the freezing point. That water is supposed to be 16 F, which will be a couple degrees warmer given the temperature of the building, which is where 18 comes from. Given the environmental variables (Edmonton vs Glendale), variation is allowed as long as the ice temperature stays below 23 F. I would imagine there's some Tom Brady's Footballs-style variation and that Anthony Duclair and Zbynek Michalek might have different ideas about what temperature ice feels best.

Stunning that the Islanders would have such basic problems two years after they move into the Barclays Center. What a horrible move / horrible building ... that they put up with all that shows how much Nassau sucked lol.

 

[knich]

Why does everyone keep on going back 4 years? As an organization, we were hanging on by a thread, running bare bones and owned by the NHL. The FO can only work with what they have. Can we all start fresh when IA assumed control. It takes time to turn any business around, especially a multi million dollar one. It DOES NOT happen overnight.

No..7 years ago we were hanging by a thread. People seem to forget that year when Tipp took over. We had 107 points and made playoffs. We also made playoffs the next two years under similar adversity. We haven't been there in 4 yrs. The NHL took over in 2009. IA took over in 2013. So our best years have been when the NHL was running the team..lol.

This is why I'm concerned about Tipp. We had no farm system then, a crappy team, laughing stock of league, no playoffs in forever, abysmal fan base, and no earthly idea what tomorrow might bring. Yet...Tipp got us 107 points and two yrs later western conf champs. He found a way to get most out of his players. I have not seen that kind of effort, with exception of about 20 games last year, in 4 yrs.

People talk about how much we improved in wins last yr. But that is misleading as the entire league improved in wins. We were only 3 points in the standings improved (if we had lost 2 more games we would have picked 3rd this year again) than we were in 2014 when we drafted Strome 3 overall. And if we hadn't played Smith in those meaningless games we might have gotten Eichel. So..there is an ugly trend here and it has nothing to do with IA.

 

[kihekah19*]

IIHF says -5 Celsius (23 F) is the maximum allowable. The water running through the pipes is super, super salty to lower the freezing point. That water is supposed to be 16 F, which will be a couple degrees warmer given the temperature of the building, which is where 18 comes from. Given the environmental variables (Edmonton vs Glendale), variation is allowed as long as the ice temperature stays below 23 F. I would imagine there's some Tom Brady's Footballs-style variation and that Anthony Duclair and Zbynek Michalek might have different ideas about what temperature ice feels best.

Stunning that the Islanders would have such basic problems two years after they move into the Barclays Center. What a horrible move / horrible building ... that they put up with all that shows how much Nassau sucked lol.

If the NHL follows the IIHF guideline, the complaint should be with them, as opposed to Barclay's then.
steel pipes or not.

 

[kihekah19*]

I'm no mathematician, but how can an entire league improve in wins?

 

[Ebb]

If the NHL follows the IIHF guideline, the complaint should be with them, as opposed to Barclay's then.
steel pipes or not.

Don't forget to delve into the history of the Isles's arenas. I imagine they are looking at other possibilities for a new arena and will most likely use their 3 year opt-out. I can't imagine they make any additional upgrades to Barclay's unless they haven't found a new arena deal after three years. If they end up staying longer, the upgrades will probably be made. Obstructed views is another reason they will probably opt out.

Of course, I suppose there is always the possibility that they move to QC, but I highly doubt that happens.

 

[_Del_]

No..7 years ago we were hanging by a thread. People seem to forget that year when Tipp took over. We had 107 points and made playoffs. We also made playoffs the next two years under similar adversity. We haven't been there in 4 yrs. The NHL took over in 2009. IA took over in 2013. So our best years have been when the NHL was running the team..lol.

This is why I'm concerned about Tipp. We had no farm system then, a crappy team, laughing stock of league, no playoffs in forever, abysmal fan base, and no earthly idea what tomorrow might bring. Yet...Tipp got us 107 points and two yrs later western conf champs. He found a way to get most out of his players. I have not seen that kind of effort, with exception of about 20 games last year, in 4 years.

Don't worry, it's just the latest myth and deflection from any sort of accountability.

NO OWNER (Doesn't count according to apologists)
2010 50 wins 107 pts .60w% 1st rnd
2011 43 wins 99 pts .52 1st rnd
2012 42 wins 97 .51 WCF year
2013 21 wins 51 .43 DNQ (lockout)

IA (only metric that matters)
2014 37 wins 89pts .45% DNQ
2015 24 wins 56 .29 DNQ
2016 35 wins 78 .42 DNQ
2017 1 2 .25 ?

Why does everyone keep on going back 4 years? As an organization, we were hanging on by a thread, running bare bones and owned by the NHL. The FO can only work with what they have. Can we all start fresh when IA assumed control.*

So fine. Let's ignore 2012-2013 as a favour to Jakes. To hear him tell the story, things were so much worse more than 4 years ago. Now we have owners and are on the upswing. Longer than four years ago doesn't count.
Instead we see dimishing returns on the ice in terms of "execution", "try", and certainly wins despite IA's investment into the "bare bones" operation under the NHL. I think it's great that they're investing in scouting, for example, but what does that have to do with our coach's performance?

118 wins since 2012-2013. 39.5 win %
If we ignore 2012-2013 and before we end up with:
97 wins, and a 38.8 win %

 

[Ebb]

About the Isles game. I thought we did well overall, but got out-strategized and out played in the 3rd. It will take a while for the new D to mesh, but if that can happen, we'll be okay the rest of the season.

I never thought I'd like the return of Stone, but he definitely did well after being away so long.

We still need some offense, but perhaps the youngsters will start clicking soon. And Vrbata hasn't been as horrible as people have been posting. I know I didn't think he'd come in and pick up where he left off. Although it's not saying much, he's tied for second in team scoring:
Richardson & Martinook--4 points
Doan, Vrbata, Goligoski, and Chychrun--3 points

And for those who prefer looking at +/- :
Richardson, Vrbata, and Chycrun are tied at +1 (best in team)

Let's hope Stone or Murphy can help out Gologoski ( -5 ) a bit.

Once McGinn is back, Duclair (0 points, -4 ) may have to sit a game or two.

 

[RemoAZ]

Sitting Duclair would be insane. Other than possibly Doan, he's the best right wing on the team.

 

[Ebb]

Sitting Duclair would be insane. Other than possibly Doan, he's the best right wing on the team.

He has improved, but he's also made several mistakes. A game or two might not be a bad thing. Admittedly, we don't really have a good enough substitute to take such an action, but if Tipp wants to experiment against Eastern Conference teams (even for one game), I wouldn't put it past him. Hopefully Duclair can score and improve his +/- (or get enough help to do so).

 

[Matias Maccete]

Honestly I thought this was the best game we played, even better than the win against Philly. We were very fortunate to win that game imo. I thought the better lineup and lines were a bit reason for that. Good thing we're scratching strome again though.

 

[_Del_]

We're going to sit Strome and maybe Duclair because they've made some mistakes... Can't wait for that fair and merit-based arbiter of icetime to hold Doan, Hanzal, and co to the same bench-stapling standards.

 

[Ebb]

We're going to sit Strome and maybe Duclair because they've made some mistakes... Can't wait for that fair and merit-based arbiter of icetime to hold Doan, Hanzal, and co to the same bench-stapling standards.

Can't say I like sitting Strome (unless they're trying to "extend" his stay with the team), but Doan is tied for 2nd in scoring (3 points and -1) and Hanzal is tied for 3rd (2 points and -3). Duclair has 0 points and is -4. I truly hope Duclair can score at least once tonight, but things are pretty bad at the moment and the Eastern teams are "having their way" with us.

I'd be fine with sitting Hanzal for a game, but Doan has done alright, considering.

 

[CoyotesFan18]

Can't say I like sitting Strome (unless they're trying to "extend" his stay with the team), but Doan is tied for 2nd in scoring (3 points and -1) and Hanzal is tied for 3rd (2 points and -3). Duclair has 0 points and is -4. I truly hope Duclair can score at least once tonight, but things are pretty bad at the moment and the Eastern teams are "having their way" with us.

I'd be fine with sitting Hanzal for a game, but Doan has done alright, considering.

Larkin only has 1 assist and is a -4 for a 4-2 Detroit team. Should they sit him?

 

[_Del_]

You guys had better head over the the Detroit forum and tell them about the DRW Model... That uppity Larkin is ruining their franchise.

 

[kihekah19*]

You guys had better head over the the Detroit forum and tell them about the DRW Model... That uppity Larkin is ruining their franchise.

What does Dual Rear Wheel have to do with anything?

 

[kihekah19*]

Larkin only has 1 assist and is a -4 for a 4-2 Detroit team. Should they sit him?

Oh never mind

 

[cobra427]

It's comical that you didn't list the two biggest justifications for firing him: Smith and Ribiero. Both Tippett players, and Smith's contract was bad on day one. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that you forgot those. Nothing to do with making a buck.

Downie and Scott aren't even worth mentioning. The latest in a string of role players that did fine elsewhere and GMDT neuters and won't play their game. But you're right, it's dumb to bring in guys you know your coach won't play.





You (like most) seemed to be just fine with bringing back Z and Vermette at the time:


5.75M!!

This team has never made a decision that you haven't defended and fallen in lockstep. Give me a break.

So Scott and Downey were not successful here because of Tip, and the Ribs/Smith signings were because of Tip? Sounds like Tip was calling all the shots. Except for DM got canned for not listening to others. Obviously Tip wanted different players along the way.

I was in favor of bringing back Z/Vermette, neither have worked out. Those were DM's signings again, not Tip. So, DM has a string of failed signings, enough to justify his firing.

We are predicted to finish 25th or worse this year. If we are dead last, Tip did something wrong. If we are 20th or better, Tip must be given some credit for over achieving. I would judge any coach based on the teams performance versus realistic expectations. I think we over achieved again last year, all things considered.

 

[Ebb]

Larkin only has 1 assist and is a -4 for a 4-2 Detroit team. Should they sit him?

Well, I'd say no because he has actually scored

I'm a big Duclair fan, so it's not like I have it out for him. I just see him as one of the players that has struggled most so far this season (of the players that are important to our offensive game). It's probably too soon to start benching players, but if he still hasn't scored after 10 games and is -10, you gotta do something. One healthy scratch wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for any of our top 6 forwards struggling to score.

 

[cobra427]

Well, I'd say no because he has actually scored

I'm a big Duclair fan, so it's not like I have it out for him. I just see him as one of the players that has struggled most so far this season (of the players that are important to our offensive game). It's probably too soon to start benching players, but if he still hasn't scored after 10 games and is -10, you gotta do something. One healthy scratch wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for any of our top 6 forwards struggling to score.

I think Duclair has been better overall this year, even though he does not have production yet. I don't see Tip benching him. Doan and Hanzal won't ever be benched, they both do too many good things for the team.

 

[knich]

Don't worry, it's just the latest myth and deflection from any sort of accountability.

NO OWNER (Doesn't count according to apologists)
2010 50 wins 107 pts .60w% 1st rnd
2011 43 wins 99 pts .52 1st rnd
2012 42 wins 97 .51 WCF year
2013 21 wins 51 .43 DNQ (lockout)

IA (only metric that matters)
2014 37 wins 89pts .45% DNQ
2015 24 wins 56 .29 DNQ
2016 35 wins 78 .42 DNQ
2017 1 2 .25 ?



So fine. Let's ignore 2012-2013 as a favour to Jakes. To hear him tell the story, things were so much worse more than 4 years ago. Now we have owners and are on the upswing. Longer than four years ago doesn't count.
Instead we see dimishing returns on the ice in terms of "execution", "try", and certainly wins despite IA's investment into the "bare bones" operation under the NHL. I think it's great that they're investing in scouting, for example, but what does that have to do with our coach's performance?

118 wins since 2012-2013. 39.5 win %
If we ignore 2012-2013 and before we end up with:
97 wins, and a 38.8 win %

Bingo!

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Don't worry, it's just the latest myth and deflection from any sort of accountability.

NO OWNER (Doesn't count according to apologists)
2010 50 wins 107 pts .60w% 1st rnd
2011 43 wins 99 pts .52 1st rnd
2012 42 wins 97 .51 WCF year
2013 21 wins 51 .43 DNQ (lockout)

IA (only metric that matters)
2014 37 wins 89pts .45% DNQ
2015 24 wins 56 .29 DNQ
2016 35 wins 78 .42 DNQ
2017 1 2 .25 ?

118 wins since 2012-2013. 39.5 win %
If we ignore 2012-2013 and before we end up with:
97 wins, and a 38.8 win %

Can't you recognize that pre-IA the team was built on signing various misfits and playing a very defensive style? Every signing was a gamble, like Whitney. Now they're building to have sustained success with building around a core of young players.

And the kind of players they signed back then are the kind a lot of people complain about and call for Tippett's firing over. They were built to be a boring team, which Maloney had recognized.

Don't forget to delve into the history of the Isles's arenas. I imagine they are looking at other possibilities for a new arena and will most likely use their 3 year opt-out. I can't imagine they make any additional upgrades to Barclay's unless they haven't found a new arena deal after three years. If they end up staying longer, the upgrades will probably be made. Obstructed views is another reason they will probably opt out.

Of course, I suppose there is always the possibility that they move to QC, but I highly doubt that happens.

Yeah the Islanders are looking at building a new arena. They're looking at Queen's and Nassau, again. Their whole arena situation has been a disaster. They had an oppurtunity to move to Barclays when it was going to open. And it would've been built for a hockey team. No obstructed seats, no Hondas in the building. Instead they said no and tried to get one in Nassau, just to end up at Barclays anyway. In a situation that is similar to when the Coyotes were downtown.

 

[Jakey53]

No..7 years ago we were hanging by a thread. People seem to forget that year when Tipp took over. We had 107 points and made playoffs. We also made playoffs the next two years under similar adversity. We haven't been there in 4 yrs. The NHL took over in 2009. IA took over in 2013. So our best years have been when the NHL was running the team..lol.

This is why I'm concerned about Tipp. We had no farm system then, a crappy team, laughing stock of league, no playoffs in forever, abysmal fan base, and no earthly idea what tomorrow might bring. Yet...Tipp got us 107 points and two yrs later western conf champs. He found a way to get most out of his players. I have not seen that kind of effort, with exception of about 20 games last year, in 4 yrs.

People talk about how much we improved in wins last yr. But that is misleading as the entire league improved in wins. We were only 3 points in the standings improved (if we had lost 2 more games we would have picked 3rd this year again) than we were in 2014 when we drafted Strome 3 overall. And if we hadn't played Smith in those meaningless games we might have gotten Eichel. So..there is an ugly trend here and it has nothing to do with IA.

Ok, go back 7yrs. That just shows what a great coach DT is and how he had his teams overachieve in EVERY year except one, while putting together a different team from other teams left overs year after year. Now your saying last year was misleading because the entire league improved in wins. How does that happen? Edmonton will pay you a fortune for that one. We were the laughing stock of the entire NHL in every area except on ice. We were a competitive team every year except that one year. The FO has done a terrific job, from drafting, trades and personal etc. etc. No one in the hockey circles is laughing now.