GDT: Game 37: Los Angeles Kings (19-13-5) @ Seattle Kraken (10-22-4) - 7:00 p.m. PT/10:00 p.m. ET

[Irie]

That's the thing we do not have the right talent right players to make this more of a scoring offensive team that actually scores.

And that would still be an issue regardless of who the coach is. We wouldn't be winning games even if we hired Bruce instead with that kind of offense.

Intentionally tanking the team is a very very dumb idea especially for the next 3 years..

The problem is that Hakstol is rolling lines in a system as if he DOES have the talent on his roster to go out and run with the rest of the teams in the league, and he doesn't.

This team SHOULD be embracing roles for different players, and work within a system that plays to their strengths.

Instead, all I see i constant line juggling, and the plan seems to be, "go out there and out score the opponents"

This team never had the talent to compete playing a traditional system and gameplan. The forward lines are mostly filled with castoffs or with teams 8th or 9th most valuable forward. The D is filled with mostly team's 5th most valuable D. This team has compete, but they can't play an open game with the other teams and find success. They don't have the chemistry yet, and they are short on game changing high-end skill.

Not sure why anyone is surprised when they are trying to play that way that they are mostly losing.

Season is lost. Trying to make a trade or give up anything to try to be more competitive now is a waste of assets. Roll with what they have, recoup some picks and prospects at the deadline and embrace the top five pick finish. Worse things could happen for a brand new expansion team.

 

[Toomany7pins]

That goal by LA wasn't a kick. His the skate blade was already turned from what i saw so there was no direct kicking motion at all. It looked like to me he was trying to stop and somehow ended up deflecting the puck of the skate.

I wasn’t even referring to tonight’s game. I should have clarified that better.
It was a general statement as I remember a kicked puck against Vegas in the very first game and one a week or 2 ago.

 

[larueskee]

The idea that a early draft pick is assured a roster spot the year after a draft is a pipe dream. Some picks go to college, some get a 9 game stint before being sent to juniors and they might do that the first two years. Others like Bowen Byram get their bell rung and are out for most of the season, and others never make it. Its a gamble and the lottery has changed now so tanking guarantees nothing. Plenty of busts picked in the top of the draft in recent years. At the 2016 draft Olli Juolevi was picked by the Canucks and he has played in only 31 NHL games. Did he provide a instant boost? No he was traded to Florida where he has played all of 8 games. The fact that the scouting department and analytics that were so highly touted failed so miserably with the pro scouting doesn't inspire confidence on the entry draft. So buckle in and get used to what you are seeing, it won't change anytime in the near future.

 

[gstommylee]

The idea that a early draft pick is assured a roster spot the year after a draft is a pipe dream. Some picks go to college, some get a 9 game stint before being sent to juniors and they might do that the first two years. Others like Bowen Byram get their bell rung and are out for most of the season, and others never make it. Its a gamble and the lottery has changed now so tanking guarantees nothing. Plenty of busts picked in the top of the draft in recent years. At the 2016 draft Olli Juolevi was picked by the Canucks and he has played in only 31 NHL games. Did he provide a instant boost? No he was traded to Florida where he has played all of 8 games. The fact that the scouting department and analytics that were so highly touted failed so miserably with the pro scouting doesn't inspire confidence on the entry draft. So buckle in and get used to what you are seeing, it won't change anytime in the near future.

This is why i hate the whole lets just tank and tank and tank. Not only we are not guaranteed top pick no one is. There is no guarantee that pick like you said would help. The point of the draft is to supplement your team as they develop. You may get a rare very very talent player now and then but you should never ever ever depend on the draft to solve all your problems.

 

[Toomany7pins]

CD looked good in net for the 2nd game in a row. Hope he gets next game. Wish we could score a few more goals for him though.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Well, that's the ninth in a row.
At least it looked more like we predicted before the season(tight game, low shots etc.) but they still don't have enough talent and always find a way to give up goals they can't make up anymore.

Arvidsson could have been a Kraken...so GM Francis can do thank-you very much when he signs F Forsberg to a FA deal

Arvidsson was traded before the expansion draft(because the Preds knew they'd lose him if left unprotected) and protected by the Kings.
So no, he was never an option and like stated many times, just going out and throwing huge amounts of money on those guys in their late 20's(during free agency) is not the smartest way to buit a team.

Nine in a row now Yuck. At least Chicago should be do able.

Since their horrible start the Blackhawks have actually been OK, won four straight and are only seven points behind a playoff spot.

Combine that with how we're doing and I doubt you can talk about a game being "do able" for us.

This is why i hate the whole lets just tank and tank and tank. Not only we are not guaranteed top pick no one is. There is no guarantee that pick like you said would help. The point of the draft is to supplement your team as they develop. You may get a rare very very talent player now and then but you should never ever ever depend on the draft to solve all your problems.

No one's saying that we should "tank, tank, tank" over many years and what not or that this will solve all of our problems.

Poeple have just accpted that this season's lost and the best case going forward would be a high draft pick to improve the prospect pool with a high end talent player which we have very vew of.

The future of this team will depend on how Francis deals with every facett available to him to upgrade the talent of the team.
Though, just like only going for draft picks and sucking on purpose(which team isn't doing, they're just not that good) isn't going to work, going out and throwing big money and term at guys in their late 20's during one free agency isn't going to make this a success either.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

On another note.

The talk about the mascot was wrong.
Though, they were able to finally have a pre-game show and it was solid, I thought.

 

[Irie]

The idea that a early draft pick is assured a roster spot the year after a draft is a pipe dream. Some picks go to college, some get a 9 game stint before being sent to juniors and they might do that the first two years. Others like Bowen Byram get their bell rung and are out for most of the season, and others never make it. Its a gamble and the lottery has changed now so tanking guarantees nothing. Plenty of busts picked in the top of the draft in recent years. At the 2016 draft Olli Juolevi was picked by the Canucks and he has played in only 31 NHL games. Did he provide a instant boost? No he was traded to Florida where he has played all of 8 games. The fact that the scouting department and analytics that were so highly touted failed so miserably with the pro scouting doesn't inspire confidence on the entry draft. So buckle in and get used to what you are seeing, it won't change anytime in the near future.

Not sure who you are replying too, since you failed to use the "reply" feature, so I will reply. In the future, if you use reply, it might help with maintaining a discussion.

You come in here trolling this forum with posts like "That's Kraken Hockey!" and "buckle in and get used to what you are seeing, it won't change anytime in the near future" after a loss.

You are trolling and you are coming across like an immature twelve year old that got into his fathers HF account. If you want to come in here and have mature discussions about the team, then you are welcome, but don't troll our board. It's a douchy move and our moderator is a bad ass... the last guy that decided it would be fun to take cheap shots at the new team found out the hard way, don't be like that guy.

As far as your takes.

1. On the expansion draft and signings, I don't think you understand how the UFA system works. Ryan Suter is 36 and is looking to win a cup, he was never going to sign with Seattle.

2. on +/-. This team has no true top pairing defensemen. None were available in the draft and none were going to sign here. You think Ian Cole would be the solution because he has a decent career +/-? You do realize that he has played on winning teams in sheltered roles throughout his playing time in the NHL?

And as far as +/- goes, it is a stat that is only relevant when comparing players on the same team playing in the same situations. Here is an example.

Taylor Hall.
Last year he paced for a -47 on Buffalo. That is terrible.
Last year with Boston he paced for +77.

So. Same year. Is he terrible or great? If we use +/- to evaluate him, he is apparently both. It is a stupid stat that people who do not understand situational usage, team strength, line combination and deployment use to judge a players worth.

3. On drafting in the first round.

You chose an example from the 2016 draft that was literally the ONLY bust in the top 20 picks. What does that say about your example? The norm or an outlier?

The curve of players that become stars vs busts is an extremely steep curve, and the closer to 1st overall you get, the higher the chance you draft a star, and this chance is exponentially higher the earlier your draft.

If you look back the past 15 years under the salary cap, almost every team that has won a cup or is a current legitimate contender has multiple top 5 picks, and several top 10-12 picks.

Pittsburgh - Crosy, Malkin, Fleury, Stall
Chicago - Kane, Toews, Ladd(Ruutu trade)
LA - Doughty, Richards(Schenn trade), Carter(Johnson trade) Brown, Kopitar
Florida - Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad
Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos, Sergachev(Drouin trade)
Colorado - Landeskog, MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen

The list goes on.

All these teams accumulated most of their star players through several lean years of really bad records. Since the cap was implemented, nearly all the winners have had several top 10 or 12 picks on their rosters. Yet you are dismissing the idea that high draft picks don't make a difference based on one player busting?

And no, 18 year old prospects should not be playing in the NHL unless you want to ruin their development. But just because they can't play right away does not mean they aren't necessary for a longterm plan to build a contender.

 

[larueskee]

This is why i hate the whole lets just tank and tank and tank. Not only we are not guaranteed top pick no one is. There is no guarantee that pick like you said would help. The point of the draft is to supplement your team as they develop. You may get a rare very very talent player now and then but you should never ever ever depend on the draft to solve all your problems.

I agree and that seems to be the 5 year plan outlined by Ron Francis in his recent interview on how things have turned out. Francis also mentions " but we have cap space ". Which means nothing except that he and the Kraken have sold the venue out and that cap space will fall to the bottom line of his operation. Likely meaning a bonus for himself yet look at what the fans have to gain from cap space. The expansion draft was a major failure and the free agents signed were marginal players. Some poster mentioned that some players want to play for a cup and yes I agree with that but there are also players that want to have more responsibility and see more ice time. There were enough of those available.

 

[larueskee]

Not sure who you are replying too, since you failed to use the "reply" feature, so I will reply. In the future, if you use reply, it might help with maintaining a discussion.

You come in here trolling this forum with posts like "That's Kraken Hockey!" and "buckle in and get used to what you are seeing, it won't change anytime in the near future" after a loss.

You are trolling and you are coming across like an immature twelve year old that got into his fathers HF account. If you want to come in here and have mature discussions about the team, then you are welcome, but don't troll our board. It's a douchy move and our moderator is a bad ass... the last guy that decided it would be fun to take cheap shots at the new team found out the hard way, don't be like that guy.

As far as your takes.

1. On the expansion draft and signings, I don't think you understand how the UFA system works. Ryan Suter is 36 and is looking to win a cup, he was never going to sign with Seattle.

2. on +/-. This team has no true top pairing defensemen. None were available in the draft and none were going to sign here. You think Ian Cole would be the solution because he has a decent career +/-? You do realize that he has played on winning teams in sheltered roles throughout his playing time in the NHL?

And as far as +/- goes, it is a stat that is only relevant when comparing players on the same team playing in the same situations. Here is an example.

Taylor Hall.
Last year he paced for a -47 on Buffalo. That is terrible.
Last year with Boston he paced for +77.

So. Same year. Is he terrible or great? If we use +/- to evaluate him, he is apparently both. It is a stupid stat that people who do not understand situational usage, team strength, line combination and deployment use to judge a players worth.

3. On drafting in the first round.

You chose an example from the 2016 draft that was literally the ONLY bust in the top 20 picks. What does that say about your example? The norm or an outlier?

The curve of players that become stars vs busts is an extremely steep curve, and the closer to 1st overall you get, the higher the chance you draft a star, and this chance is exponentially higher the earlier your draft.

If you look back the past 15 years under the salary cap, almost every team that has won a cup or is a current legitimate contender has multiple top 5 picks, and several top 10-12 picks.

Pittsburgh - Crosy, Malkin, Fleury, Stall
Chicago - Kane, Toews, Ladd(Ruutu trade)
LA - Doughty, Richards(Schenn trade), Carter(Johnson trade) Brown, Kopitar
Florida - Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad
Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos, Sergachev(Drouin trade)
Colorado - Landeskog, MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen

The list goes on.

All these teams accumulated most of their star players through several lean years of really bad records. Since the cap was implemented, nearly all the winners have had several top 10 or 12 picks on their rosters. Yet you are dismissing the idea that high draft picks don't make a difference based on one player busting?

And no, 18 year old prospects should not be playing in the NHL unless you want to ruin their development. But just because they can't play right away does not mean they aren't necessary for a longterm plan to build a contender.

Dallas is not and was never considered prior to the start of the season a cup contender.

 

[Quackenator]

Not sure who you are replying too, since you failed to use the "reply" feature, so I will reply. In the future, if you use reply, it might help with maintaining a discussion.

You come in here trolling this forum with posts like "That's Kraken Hockey!" and "buckle in and get used to what you are seeing, it won't change anytime in the near future" after a loss.

You are trolling and you are coming across like an immature twelve year old that got into his fathers HF account. If you want to come in here and have mature discussions about the team, then you are welcome, but don't troll our board. It's a douchy move and our moderator is a bad ass... the last guy that decided it would be fun to take cheap shots at the new team found out the hard way, don't be like that guy.

As far as your takes.

1. On the expansion draft and signings, I don't think you understand how the UFA system works. Ryan Suter is 36 and is looking to win a cup, he was never going to sign with Seattle.

2. on +/-. This team has no true top pairing defensemen. None were available in the draft and none were going to sign here. You think Ian Cole would be the solution because he has a decent career +/-? You do realize that he has played on winning teams in sheltered roles throughout his playing time in the NHL?

And as far as +/- goes, it is a stat that is only relevant when comparing players on the same team playing in the same situations. Here is an example.

Taylor Hall.
Last year he paced for a -47 on Buffalo. That is terrible.
Last year with Boston he paced for +77.

So. Same year. Is he terrible or great? If we use +/- to evaluate him, he is apparently both. It is a stupid stat that people who do not understand situational usage, team strength, line combination and deployment use to judge a players worth.

3. On drafting in the first round.

You chose an example from the 2016 draft that was literally the ONLY bust in the top 20 picks. What does that say about your example? The norm or an outlier?

The curve of players that become stars vs busts is an extremely steep curve, and the closer to 1st overall you get, the higher the chance you draft a star, and this chance is exponentially higher the earlier your draft.

If you look back the past 15 years under the salary cap, almost every team that has won a cup or is a current legitimate contender has multiple top 5 picks, and several top 10-12 picks.

Pittsburgh - Crosy, Malkin, Fleury, Stall
Chicago - Kane, Toews, Ladd(Ruutu trade)
LA - Doughty, Richards(Schenn trade), Carter(Johnson trade) Brown, Kopitar
Florida - Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad
Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos, Sergachev(Drouin trade)
Colorado - Landeskog, MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen

The list goes on.

All these teams accumulated most of their star players through several lean years of really bad records. Since the cap was implemented, nearly all the winners have had several top 10 or 12 picks on their rosters. Yet you are dismissing the idea that high draft picks don't make a difference based on one player busting?

And no, 18 year old prospects should not be playing in the NHL unless you want to ruin their development. But just because they can't play right away does not mean they aren't necessary for a longterm plan to build a contender.

You really didn’t need to take the bait but nice write up.

 

[Kat Predator]

3. On drafting in the first round.

You chose an example from the 2016 draft that was literally the ONLY bust in the top 20 picks. What does that say about your example? The norm or an outlier?

The curve of players that become stars vs busts is an extremely steep curve, and the closer to 1st overall you get, the higher the chance you draft a star, and this chance is exponentially higher the earlier your draft.

If you look back the past 15 years under the salary cap, almost every team that has won a cup or is a current legitimate contender has multiple top 5 picks, and several top 10-12 picks.

Pittsburgh - Crosy, Malkin, Fleury, Stall
Chicago - Kane, Toews, Ladd(Ruutu trade)
LA - Doughty, Richards(Schenn trade), Carter(Johnson trade) Brown, Kopitar
Florida - Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad
Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos, Sergachev(Drouin trade)
Colorado - Landeskog, MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen

The list goes on.

Objectively, this sort of cherry picking cuts both ways. The same 3 or 4 teams are always mentioned out of 30 in fact.

St. Louis won the Cup and didn't follow this path.

Tampa has won 2 Cups recently and those big name picks were drafted a decade and a half ago, which does not line up with a 5 year window or any sort of quick turnaround.

And since there are plenty of teams every year that do not win the Cup (all of them save 1), the list of teams that have not been guaranteed success is very long.

Edmonton has had top picks and has taken great, good, and bad players with them. They can't build a complete team, so do not look like they are poised to become a dynasty at the moment.

Buffalo is perennially a lottery pick organization. Other than that "success", they have none.

Using a wider angle lens, Ottawa had 3 #1 overall picks in 4 years and has no Cups. (Florida has no Cups to this point, but like Colorado do look like an up-and-coming very good team. In fact, put Vasilevskiy on either of those teams, and I'd expect them to have the inside track. So "looking" might not be a guarantee.)

And there are teams that have come close in recent memory that haven't had baskets of #1 overall picks: Montreal, Dallas, Vegas, Boston, Nashville, San Jose, Rangers. That list is longer than the Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh list.

Boston is a counterexample in another way: none of their big 3 over this latest period of sustained success was drafted in the top 10.

And what of Vegas? That team is the one Seattle is measured against at this point and they certainly have not been developed through the draft. There is a strong argument to be made Vegas is the most talented team in the West and they have developed basically no one through the draft. Indeed, it would be laughable to say they built through the draft and got their top talent that route.

PS: I understand however that building through the draft does seem to be the way Francis is going to do things here. We'll just have to see if the list becomes Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, and Seattle.

 

[Irie]

Dallas is not and was never considered prior to the start of the season a cup contender.

Before UFA season opened, Dallas was in exactly the same position to win the cup that they were in 2019-20 when they eventually went to the finals, 14th. They were viewed as a playoff team and they would be higher if several of their key players weren't dealing with injuries. If their top center was 100% healthy, they would be a lot higher.

Face the facts, there was absolutely no way Suter was going to sign in Seattle.

With plenty of options, Suter chooses Stars for his best shot at a Cup

And of all that, that was your focus? way to dodge the discussion.

 

[Irie]

Objectively, this sort of cherry picking cuts both ways. The same 3 or 4 teams are always mentioned out of 30 in fact.

St. Louis won the Cup and didn't follow this path.

Tampa has won 2 Cups recently and those big name picks were drafted a decade and a half ago, which does not line up with a 5 year window or any sort of quick turnaround.

And since there are plenty of teams every year that do not win the Cup (all of them save 1), the list of teams that have not been guaranteed success is very long.

Edmonton has had top picks and has taken great, good, and bad players with them. They can't build a complete team, so do not look like they are poised to become a dynasty at the moment.

Buffalo is perennially a lottery pick organization. Other than that "success", they have none.

Using a wider angle lens, Ottawa had 3 #1 overall picks in 4 years and has no Cups. (Florida has no Cups to this point, but like Colorado do look like an up-and-coming very good team. In fact, put Vasilevskiy on either of those teams, and I'd expect them to have the inside track. So "looking" might not be a guarantee.)

And there are teams that have come close in recent memory that haven't had baskets of #1 overall picks: Montreal, Dallas, Vegas, Boston, Nashville, San Jose, Rangers. That list is longer than the Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh list.

Boston is a counterexample in another way: none of their big 3 over this latest period of sustained success was drafted in the top 10.

And what of Vegas? That team is the one Seattle is measured against at this point and they certainly have not been developed through the draft. There is a strong argument to be made Vegas is the most talented team in the West and they have developed basically no one through the draft. Indeed, it would be laughable to say they built through the draft and got their top talent that route.

PS: I understand however that building through the draft does seem to be the way Francis is going to do things here. We'll just have to see if the list becomes Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, and Seattle.

If you break it down, there really are only a couple of outliers to the discussion, and their success (or failures) have obvious factors.

St Louis - Pietrangelo was a top 5 pick and one of the best defensemen in the league. Tarasenko was a top 5 talent, and mostly consensus top 10 pick that fell only because of the Russian factor as he was playing in the KHL.

And sure, if you can trade for a Selke winning top line center (O'rielly) and Schenn, then you can forego the traditional route, but counting on those trades being available for the peanuts they gave up for them is usually wishful thinking.

Tampa does not win two cups without Hedman and Sergachev on their blueline, and I am not certain they win their second cup without Stamkos, but that is speculation, and immeasurable, but he was good in that 7 game Islanders series and having him on the ice made match-ups a whole lot tougher for Trotz.

Ottawa made the finals and was a 2OT game 7 loss away from a second final, but Melnyk refuses to spend the cap, so they have to trade away all their talent. If they were a cap team, they would likely have at least more cup appearances, if not an actual championship.

Edmonton - 5 GMs and 7 coaches in the last 10 years, Each GM changes the strategy. No long term plan = no success.

Buffalo is the same. 4 GMS, 7 coaches in 10 years. Same results.

Boston is the one true exception, but they did have Horton(top 5 pick) as a heavy contributor to their cup winning, season, and they are one of the few markets (Toronto, NYR) that can take a different route due to their ability to attract top tier UFAs year in and year out. They won the lottery when they signed Norris winning and all world defensman Chara. Seattle won't likely ever have this luxury.

Vegas was a fluke. Plain and simple. They used their expansion draft position to leverage a complete top line and top pairing from unprepared GMs. The entire league learned from what they did and spent 3 years preparing for the next expansion draft, Seattle was in an entirely different position.

I am not saying that picking high in the draft equates to a guaranteed championship. It requires solid drafting, solid coaching, and some luck. But having top tier talent is a prerequisite in the cap era, and for a team like Seattle, coming by top tier talent is going to be very difficult outside of drafting it yourself,

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think it should be made clear that high picks do NOT guarantee a SC. However, having cost-controlled players who contribute in the top-6 F or top-4 D are critical to a team success and imperative for them to be competitive in the long term. Similarly, its also important to strike a balance and make sure that some of the draft capital (prospects and/or picks) AND Free Agency is used to fill in the gaps on the team.

Coming from a SJ fan-base, the team got extremely lucky that they were able to get a player like Jumbo in a trade. Getting a 1C, in my opinion, is critical to be a competitive team. Those are not obtained easily via trades. Tavares is another example though he was obtained via FA. The same can be said for top-pairing D-men.

Let's be honest here. Our best forward is Gourde. You could argue it's McCann but Gourde is miles better defensively and brings more to the table. The 3C on the team that won the SC last year. Our best D-man is going to be one of Dunn, Oleksiak or Larsson. All of them are really no better than 2nd pairing D-men on a cup winning team. Dunn can become a top-pairing D but he is not quite there yet. There will be a time for us to be aggressive in trades and FA but this is not our time. I still look back at the draft and wonder if we should have picked Tarasenko over Dunn? Should we have taken Domi? Would they have really made us significantly better at the high cost of their contracts AND the fact that they were injured at that time and coming off poor seasons? I still stick with the choices that GMRF made at the cost of having an atrocious season because even outside of their contracts and injuries, they are complimentary players. I am not interested in paying a premium for complimentary players TILL we have another legit top-6 C in place.

Based on history, GMRF is definitely the type of GM that gets a good team built via the draft. However, that will take time. BUT at some time, he will start need to being aggressive and make trades or have UFA signings while will seem like over-pays and disliked by a lot of us to round of the team. But we have some serious holes to fill the roster (and coaching) before we get to that point.

 

[Irie]

Let's be honest here. Our best forward is Gourde. You could argue it's McCann but Gourde is miles better defensively and brings more to the table. The 3C on the team that won the SC last year. Our best D-man is going to be one of Dunn, Oleksiak or Larsson. All of them are really no better than 2nd pairing D-men on a cup winning team. Dunn can become a top-pairing D but he is not quite there yet. There will be a time for us to be aggressive in trades and FA but this is not our time. I still look back at the draft and wonder if we should have picked Tarasenko over Dunn? Should we have taken Domi? Would they have really made us significantly better at the high cost of their contracts AND the fact that they were injured at that time and coming off poor seasons? I still stick with the choices that GMRF made at the cost of having an atrocious season because even outside of their contracts and injuries, they are complimentary players. I am not interested in paying a premium for complimentary players TILL we have another legit top-6 C in place.

Not sure how good Tarasenko would be playing with the current forward group. He thrives playing with creative players, and Seattle is lacking in that department, and I am quite happy with the Dunn pick. When Dunn was out, the team really missed his mobility on the back end, so I am not going to waste a minute second guessing that selection.

I also definitely think some lying occurred with Columbus' medical staff. Reports were Domi would not be available to play until January at the earliest, and there was some speculation that he may miss most of the season.

Obviously those reports were way off.

Had he been cleared to play at the time of the draft, Francis probably would have taken him for a rental and deadline trade piece I imagine.

As far as longterm plans, Domi's ability to create offense would be a huge boost to this team that seriously lacks players with that skillset, but his indifference to playing on the defensive side of the puck would absolutely hurt a team that already has a problem with commitment to D from their forward group as a whole.

The other tradeoff would likely have been no signing of Donato or Johnasson.

Not sure replacing either of those players with Domi makes a huge difference in the overall standings for this team, but I have a feeling they would be more entertaining....

 

[Irie]

Based on history, GMRF is definitely the type of GM that gets a good team built via the draft. However, that will take time. BUT at some time, he will start need to being aggressive and make trades or have UFA signings while will seem like over-pays and disliked by a lot of us to round of the team. But we have some serious holes to fill the roster (and coaching) before we get to that point.

Agreed, and I think Francis should keep the UFA signings to short term rentals that he can move until the core is in place.

That said, I think it is important to have a solid set of veterans as mentors for the young guys coming in.

Too many young players and they only have the coaching staff to rely on, and often, a lot of the coaches don't have the playing experience that the vets can impart on the young guys, which is invaluable

 

[HoseEmDown]

Some of the guys that Francis gets ragged on for not taking are starting to cool off. Voracek and Domi for example have come back to earth from their hot starts. Voracek ppg is just above that of McCann and he also has just 1 goal on the season. Domi ppg is now below the likes of Schwartz, Gourde or Eberle. Voracek would be the highest paid player on the team but not that good value for money and his deal has 2 additional seasons which aren't going to go well. Domi would be right there among the top earners as well and he also has been a bit banged up this year and carries an injury history, so his deadline value might take a hit because of that. Francis didn’t miss too much with either of those.

The issue that the team has is that they didn't get the production from Geekie and Appleton like they probably expected. I'm sure they were expecting them to produce kinda how Donato is. If they get that kinda production from the two of them that's a big boost to a struggling offense. Donskoi forgetting how to put the puck in the net hasn't helped either.

 

[larueskee]

Before UFA season opened, Dallas was in exactly the same position to win the cup that they were in 2019-20 when they eventually went to the finals, 14th. They were viewed as a playoff team and they would be higher if several of their key players weren't dealing with injuries. If their top center was 100% healthy, they would be a lot higher.

Face the facts, there was absolutely no way Suter was going to sign in Seattle.

With plenty of options, Suter chooses Stars for his best shot at a Cup

And of all that, that was your focus? way to dodge the discussion.

No I also mentioned free agents that were available that might like a shot for a bigger role on their future team. There were plenty of them but we wound up with Jamie Oleksiak for way more dough and term than we should have paid. Adam Larrsoon as well. Didn't mind picking up Soucy in the expansion draft and didn't mind Dunn all that much but he is a defensive liability. I'm just saying this team with its supposed scouting and analytics should be much better than it is. I don't think anyone thought we should be heading into last place. I also believe it will be a very long time before the team is just a playoff contender.

 

[gstommylee]

No I also mentioned free agents that were available that might like a shot for a bigger role on their future team. There were plenty of them but we wound up with Jamie Oleksiak for way more dough and term than we should have paid. Adam Larrsoon as well. Didn't mind picking up Soucy in the expansion draft and didn't mind Dunn all that much but he is a defensive liability. I'm just saying this team with its supposed scouting and analytics should be much better than it is. I don't think anyone thought we should be heading into last place. I also believe it will be a very long time before the team is just a playoff contender.

And a lot of those FAs either re-signed or signed with another team....

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

No I also mentioned free agents that were available that might like a shot for a bigger role on their future team. There were plenty of them but we wound up with Jamie Oleksiak for way more dough and term than we should have paid. Adam Larrsoon as well. Didn't mind picking up Soucy in the expansion draft and didn't mind Dunn all that much but he is a defensive liability. I'm just saying this team with its supposed scouting and analytics should be much better than it is. I don't think anyone thought we should be heading into last place. I also believe it will be a very long time before the team is just a playoff contender.

Can you confirm which FA's we could have signed that would have made a big impact?

Signing UFA's is a 2-way street. I doubt most players would prefer to sign with the Kraken given that they were an expansion franchise. That plus the fact that high-end FA's generally want to sign at a premium which GMRF, rightly so, would not want to do given that we are an expansion team.

You keep bringing up Larsson and Oleksiak as poor signings but the only reason you have complained about the signings is the +/-. Most of us here have been watching the games regularly and have been happy with the way they have played. Dunn is questionable defensively but has improved as the season has progressed. FYI. Oleksiak is the 2nd best D-man on the team in +/- at this time.

You are absolutely right that this team should have been better. Most analytics had us at 80+ points this season. I never made a prediction about how many points we would have had but I expected us to be in 75-85 point region and missing out on the playoffs. We are currently on a 53 point pace.

I feel that coaching is the biggest issue where we ran into a problem. Like others have said over the course of the season, Hakstol is more of a 'development' coach who works well with younger players. Which makes no sense for an expansion team unless the goal is more of a long-term one (5-6 years). And that is where I think GMRF may have made a mistake with the Hakstol hiring. COVID also played a big role in how bad we are but that is something every team has dealt with this season. Unfortunately, for us, as a rag tag bunch of players thrown together, it just makes things worse.

 

[larueskee]

Can you confirm which FA's we could have signed that would have made a big impact?

Signing UFA's is a 2-way street. I doubt most players would prefer to sign with the Kraken given that they were an expansion franchise. That plus the fact that high-end FA's generally want to sign at a premium which GMRF, rightly so, would not want to do given that we are an expansion team.

You keep bringing up Larsson and Oleksiak as poor signings but the only reason you have complained about the signings is the +/-. Most of us here have been watching the games regularly and have been happy with the way they have played. Dunn is questionable defensively but has improved as the season has progressed. FYI. Oleksiak is the 2nd best D-man on the team in +/- at this time.

You are absolutely right that this team should have been better. Most analytics had us at 80+ points this season. I never made a prediction about how many points we would have had but I expected us to be in 75-85 point region and missing out on the playoffs. We are currently on a 53 point pace.

I feel that coaching is the biggest issue where we ran into a problem. Like others have said over the course of the season, Hakstol is more of a 'development' coach who works well with younger players. Which makes no sense for an expansion team unless the goal is more of a long-term one (5-6 years). And that is where I think GMRF may have made a mistake with the Hakstol hiring. COVID also played a big role in how bad we are but that is something every team has dealt with this season. Unfortunately, for us, as a rag tag bunch of players thrown together, it just makes things worse.

I am not going to go down the list of players that would have made a big impact as no one is paying me to do so. The fact is that the team is paying people to do so and was long before any players were selected. I'll add that my philosophy wouldn't have been to add any one player to make a big impact , but to build a roster of players as a collective that could compete. I will admit that they did a good job on some players but the were primarily up front. Tanev, Geekie, would be a examples a just a couple of guys. I might have stayed away from Schwartz just because he has had quite a few seasons were he misses a lot of games. When he is in the line up he is a plus guy though. I think that the team tried to go big impact with Grubie though but they based that on his one season last year which was a outlier. I also think that the Kraken tried to go big impact with Oleksiak and that isn't that big of a mistake but the money and term are kind of crazy. They weren't alone in their fetish for Oleksiak though as other teams really like him for some reason. To me he is just another Zadarov without the vodka. The free agent on d I would have went after would have been Ian Cole. The mostly 3rd pairing defensive specialist can move up and down the pairings, as one of the best career plus minus of all active d men ( I'm big on plus minus FOR DEFENSEMEN because of personal relationship with Al Arbour and Barclay Plager ) and he is a warrior who has won a couple of cups. Yeah he went to Carolina on a discount to have a chance at a cup but he might not have had he been courted by Seattle. Thing is I bet they don't even know of him because he isn't a sexy type of player.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I am not going to go down the list of players that would have made a big impact as no one is paying me to do so.

That is a very easy cop out there. Say that we should have picked impactful players but not mentioning one.

I might have stayed away from Schwartz just because he has had quite a few seasons were he misses a lot of games.

Sure. So let's go with players like Tarasenko or Domi who were banged up at that time with no idea on how they would bounce back.

I think that the team tried to go big impact with Grubie though but they based that on his one season last year which was a outlier.

Last season was an outlier in the sense that he was a Vezina finalist. But, ironically, that was not even his career best season. He has never had a season below a 0.915 SV% before this one.

I also think that the Kraken tried to go big impact with Oleksiak and that isn't that big of a mistake but the money and term are kind of crazy.

You mean the player who is one of the toughest players on our team? Also, one of the leaders in +/- on our team. The stat you care so much about. Also, in what world is 4.6M a lot of money for a top-4 D-man. Sure we can argue that 5 years is a lot of term but we are not getting established players to sign with us for 1-2 year contracts.

 

[HoseEmDown]

The biggest knock on Francis from his Carolina days was he never fully addressed the goaltending once Ward broke down. So him trying to show he learned from his mistakes of the past is a good thing. So going out drafting Driedger and then signing the best goalie in free agency was the right move. So far the results aren't what you'd have expected but at least Francis showed he learned from the past and is willing to change. Time will tell if he made the right decision.

 

[The Marquis]

Try it again! Redo the Expansion draft. Go for it. Don't forget you have hindsight.

Seattle Expansion Draft Simulator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps