GDT: Game 36: Arizona Liquors @ San Jose Beers | 12/23/18 6 p.m MDT | FS-A Plus

[CLW]

This was a problem with Tippett as well, and I believe it was the start of Domi's issues here. Would Ovi be Ovi if he wasnt allowed to slack on D a bit and just stand there and T off in the same spot most shots. Would Kane be Kane if he wasnt allowed to free style and slide a bit on D.

I realize not all players are those guys but how do you know.

Then Ovi needs a Backstrom to put the puck on his tape...

Or you are in Nashville and if you don't have a stellar uptempo 200-foot game you get shipped out, see Pontus Aberg and I expect Eeli Tolvanen eventually.

 

[rt]

You would think the “Kessel Whisperer” would be a better coach of mercurial offensive talent (and I don’t think anyone would even go so far as to describe Domi or Galchenyuk that way - probably apt for Duclair, though). Interesting that Kempe and Archibald can be forgiven for being useless on 50% of the ice surface, but guys who can potentially put up 20g have to be perfect in all three zones or we have problems. It’s a bizarre double standard.

 

[rt]

Then Ovi needs a Backstrom to put the puck on his tape...

Or you are in Nashville and if you don't have a stellar uptempo 200-foot game you get shipped out, see Pontus Aberg and I expect Eeli Tolvanen eventually.

Nashville has such elite amateur and pro scouting that they can afford to be picky with their talent and toss huge upside on the scrap heap. A better fitting piece seems to always be on the way for that team via smart drafting or smart trading.

We don’t have the same luxury. If we’re lucky enough to blindly stumble upon real talent, we should be bending over backwards to develop it and have very long leashes and fight tooth and nail to keep whatever talent we have. Unfortunately we seem to have this dillusion that we’re much better at recognizing, acquiring and developing talent than we actual are. This organization is a Josh Archibald that thinks it’s John Tavares.

 

[Jakey53]

What is possession time good for? What’s the point of considering this metric? It’s supposed to predict goals. Nobody cares if your possession metrics are crap if your goal differential is strong. At most it would be a sustainability concern. Possession is an indicator of outcomes. It’s not an outcome. Goals are actual outcomes.

If you don't have possession you don't score. Now, it can happen that the other team has more possession and you still win, but over the course of the year you will probably lose more than you win. How often have you heard RT say we have to be a possession team to win.

 

[rt]

It’s like shouting into the void.

 

[cobra427]

This was a problem with Tippett as well, and I believe it was the start of Domi's issues here. Would Ovi be Ovi if he wasnt allowed to slack on D a bit and just stand there and T off in the same spot most shots. Would Kane be Kane if he wasnt allowed to free style and slide a bit on D.

I realize not all players are those guys but how do you know.

Domi succeeded under Tip his first year and had injuries his second year. Domi didn't succeed under Tocc. Kane and Ovi are way better offensive players and are not slackers on D. Ovi is average, Kane is way above average. The team system doesn't work if you have guys not forechecking and back checking consistently. This doesn't show up in the box score everyone is watching and much of it is not in advanced stats either. This is why Duclair, in spite of his production, has been benched/cut/scratched by Avi/Tip/Tocc/Q/Torts.

 

[cobra427]

You would think the “Kessel Whisperer” would be a better coach of mercurial offensive talent (and I don’t think anyone would even go so far as to describe Domi or Galchenyuk that way - probably apt for Duclair, though). Interesting that Kempe and Archibald can be forgiven for being useless on 50% of the ice surface, but guys who can potentially put up 20g have to be perfect in all three zones or we have problems. It’s a bizarre double standard.

Kempe/Archibald are border line NHL players but they apply pressure all over the ice, they just don't finish plays and produce points. For what they are, they are fine. Once the team is healthy, they will both be out of the line up.

 

[Lilhoody]

Kane and Ovi are way better offensive players and are not slackers on D.

That's funny.

 

[CNYCrunchfan1]

Domi succeeded under Tip his first year and had injuries his second year. Domi didn't succeed under Tocc. Kane and Ovi are way better offensive players and are not slackers on D. Ovi is average, Kane is way above average. The team system doesn't work if you have guys not forechecking and back checking consistently. This doesn't show up in the box score everyone is watching and much of it is not in advanced stats either. This is why Duclair, in spite of his production, has been benched/cut/scratched by Avi/Tip/Tocc/Q/Torts.

Agree to disagree...Tippett didn't have his hooks firmly in Domi or Duclair yet they were rookies then over time he snuffed out the creativity. They just never got it back until Domi got a fresh start with better players

And oh please on Ovi and Kane playing D. Compared to what? As far as being better offensively...sure they are I said that but you also see many times where players thrive in different places. You never know...you have to let certain players do their thing and some never get the chance. William Karlsson of Vegas is a good example of getting the chance to do his thing and thriving.

 

[cobra427]

Agree to disagree...Tippett didn't have his hooks firmly in Domi or Duclair yet they were rookies then over time he snuffed out the creativity. They just never got it back until Domi got a fresh start with better players

And oh please on Ovi and Kane playing D. Compared to what? As far as being better offensively...sure they are I said that but you also see many times where players thrive in different places. You never know...you have to let certain players do their thing and some never get the chance. William Karlsson of Vegas is a good example of getting the chance to do his thing and thriving.

Duclair has his best success by far under Tip in his first year here. Domi had a great year as well as a rookie and was injured his second year. You could say Tocc might have snuffed out their creativity. Duclair is a proven mess under any coach. Domi is having a great year, maybe Tocc didn't put him in a position to succeed. And yes, Ovi is average on D, Kane above average and they would produce offence on any team with any line mates.

William Karlsson is an anomaly, but didn't he get into trouble for something?

 

[BUX7PHX]

Agree to disagree...Tippett didn't have his hooks firmly in Domi or Duclair yet they were rookies then over time he snuffed out the creativity. They just never got it back until Domi got a fresh start with better players

And oh please on Ovi and Kane playing D. Compared to what? As far as being better offensively...sure they are I said that but you also see many times where players thrive in different places. You never know...you have to let certain players do their thing and some never get the chance. William Karlsson of Vegas is a good example of getting the chance to do his thing and thriving.

You kind of contradict yourself a little - Tippett never had the hooks in either, but then he continually limited them? How can you do that without having your hooks in them and considering Duclair spent about 1/3rd of the season in Tucson in his second year really means that Tippett never had the hooks in either, and they captured their chemistry in Domi's rookie season when there is little tape available to scheme against a player. Kind of hard to be influential on a player in his rookie year (when Tip didn't have the hooks in, and then have 58 games with him the next year).

By following it up with Domi now playing with better players - that is something that has been mentioned many, many times by individuals here. Our talent level has always been below average. Now that other teams have tape on the players, the players must also recognize areas of their games that they may need to adjust, otherwise, you have some down years. I think the combo of Domi playing with better talent and fixing some leaks in his game are why he has been so productive. Duclair hasn't quite fixed all of those leaks, which is why his stats have hovered slightly lower than the results achieved in his first year here.

The good news is we are building on the talent level and trying to bring it along. Duclair had talent, but didn't want to use it in the best way. Sounds a lot like Turris and Strome, even though the coaches could have maybe been a little more patient (maybe??). We are getting the types of players who are self-dedicated. Domi is, but that was a necessary skill for skill deal to acquire Galchenyuk, as opposed to a deal that is solely based on someone not reaching/understanding their potential.