GDT: Game 34: Maple Leafs @ Coyotes - 7PM - FSAZ

[RemoAZ]

Disagree. Toronto came out of the gate giving their top prospects top line minutes and have continued. I have no problem moving a guy down the lines to send a message. The fact is he is still playing. I agree that we don't have a #1 overall pick but our top guys have never been put on the top lines and left there to gain experience. It's been musical lines from opening night and guys that won't be here continue to get opportunities that should be given to the prospects for the benefit of the team's future instead of that one game.

If we'd have put Strome and Dvo on the first two lines and left them there to this point in the season what would have been different? Would the difference in wins + or - matter? No but we'd have a half season of experience and development for them and a half season of evaluation for the organization. Instead Strome is down and Dvo only gets to show a flash here and there. We still have no idea what either guy has to offer. Even the guys that have looked great get scratched and have their minutes reduced. This season is not being coached like a rebuild designed to develop the roster for the future as the #1 priority imo.

 

[Jamieh]

Strome didn't deserve a roster spot never mind first line minutes??? Matthews started the year as 3rd line center and moved up as he got better and more accustomed to NHL. We do not have a Matthews comparable.marner plays with JVR and Bozak. We don't have a Marner right now or a line like that to let them learn from. Nylander started with Matthews and has risen with him most of the time and fallen when put at center, he has been penalized for it. Fact is right now the Leafs have much better rookies than Coyotes and it's showing. That is not coaches fault.

Disagree. Toronto came out of the gate giving their top prospects top line minutes and have continued. I have no problem moving a guy down the lines to send a message. The fact is he is still playing. I agree that we don't have a #1 overall pick but our top guys have never been put on the top lines and left there to gain experience. It's been musical lines from opening night and guys that won't be here continue to get opportunities that should be given to the prospects for the benefit of the team's future instead of that one game.

If we'd have put Strome and Dvo on the first two lines and left them there to this point in the season what would have been different? Would the difference in wins + or - matter? No but we'd have a half season of experience and development for them and a half season of evaluation for the organization. Instead Strome is down and Dvo only gets to show a flash here and there. We still have no idea what either guy has to offer. Even the guys that have looked great get scratched and have their minutes reduced. This season is not being coached like a rebuild designed to develop the roster for the future as the #1 priority imo.

 

[RemoAZ]

Well we'll agree to disagree I guess. Their rookies have had consistent opportunities in all situations from day one. Ours have received the opposite. They are playing for the future first, today second. We are the reverse. We have the prospects we have. They will have to lead us out of this mess and we should be managing the rebuild that way. That's simply not happening imo with the rookies or second year players.

 

[Jamieh]

I just told you Austim Matthews played 3rd line center most of the first month and is only moving up quickly for two reasons, he has shown he can do it, and another center got hurt. It really is that simple. The Leafs rookies have shown enough to deserve more and the Coyotes young guys just plain haven't.

It also doesn't help Coyotes rookies that if they move up they have to be the line and not just learn from other players. The leafs have decent vets like JVR, Kadri, Bozak, Komorov and such as well as a few exceptional rookies. Currently the Coyotes have zero 1st line NHL forwards and in my opinion only Hanzel as a good 2nd line NHL'er. Now do you think it's better to throw young kids to the wolves or expose guys like Vrbata, Martinook, and Rieder to that beating while letting the kids learn the game against a more favorable 3rd line matchup? If you say 1st line I'll stop talking to you as you have little knowledge on player development. Matthews started as 3rd line center and is moving up because he showed Babcock that he is capable as his road stats show he can play against best matchups. If he didn't he would still be centering the 3rd line. I've been to half a dozen Coyotes games and to be honest have not noticed anything from Dvorak, Perlini, Crouse, or Duclair that would cause me to think they are being treated unfairly by the coach. Chychrun and DeAngelo play a tough position and I'm very happy to see the coach bring them along slowly, it will pay off in long run.

Well we'll agree to disagree I guess. Their rookies have had consistent opportunities in all situations from day one. Ours have received the opposite. They are playing for the future first, today second. We are the reverse. We have the prospects we have. They will have to lead us out of this mess and we should be managing the rebuild that way. That's simply not happening imo with the rookies or second year players.

 

[_Del_]

Instead Strome is down and Dvo only gets to show a flash here and there. We still have no idea what either guy has to offer. Even the guys that have looked great get scratched and have their minutes reduced. This season is not being coached like a rebuild designed to develop the roster for the future as the #1 priority imo.

We're never going to know what we have if we play them once every fourth game for 10 minutes. Doan gets extra minutes to "find his game". Young players needing extra time and coaching to "find their game" at this level are simply tossed aside for waiver pick up quality "proven players".

 

[Jamieh]

Or the Coyotes are well award of what they have and will develop them accordingly.

We're never going to know what we have if we play them once every fourth game for 10 minutes. Doan gets extra minutes to "find his game". Young players needing extra time and coaching to "find their game" at this level are simply tossed aside for waiver pick up quality "proven players".

 

[RemoAZ]

You can number the lines however you want. I'm talking consistent minutes and situations. Again, we have the prospects we have. They need to play and be developed. Strome looked really good playing with Doan and McGinn in the preseason, yet they don't get a shot in the regular season. Dvo looked great with Domi and Duclair yet we only get to see flashes of them together. What I want to see is at the very least 10, 15 game stretches of those guys playing on consistent lines so they get some chemistry to see what they can do. If you think changing or scratching them game to game and in most cases, shift to shift is good for their development than it's useless for us to debate this because we are completely opposite. You say Matthews got moved up because he played well. When have any of our young players been allowed to gain any sort of traction by letting them have consistent minutes and line mates? The only consistency on this team has been for OEL, Goligosky, Hanzal, Vrbata and Doan and even Doan has only had consistent minutes. His line mates have changed constantly and I don't believe that's helping him either. Everybody else either plays on perpetually changing lines and/or minutes/games. Again, I don't believe that's good for the players or the team's rebuild.

 

[Jamieh]

Stats are fun, Austin Matthews gamined almost half a minute per game for Nov vs Oct and another almost minute from Nov to Dec. He earned those minutes. Dvorak gained almost a minute per game from Oct to Nov and lost 3 minutes in Dec and that's what his play warranted. Keep trying to make this about Tippett rather than the players. Chychrun got the same treatment.

You can number the lines however you want. I'm talking consistent minutes and situations. Again, we have the prospects we have. They need to play and be developed. Strome looked really good playing with Doan and McGinn in the preseason, yet they don't get a shot in the regular season. Dvo looked great with Domi and Duclair yet we only get to see flashes of them together. What I want to see is at the very least 10, 15 game stretches of those guys playing on consistent lines so they get some chemistry to see what they can do. If you think changing or scratching them game to game and in most cases, shift to shift is good for their development than it's useless for us to debate this because we are completely opposite. You say Matthews got moved up because he played well. When have any of our young players been allowed to gain any sort of traction by letting them have consistent minutes and line mates? The only consistency on this team has been for OEL, Goligosky, Hanzal, Vrbata and Doan and even Doan has only had consistent minutes. His line mates have changed constantly and I don't believe that's helping him either. Everybody else either plays on perpetually changing lines and/or minutes/games. Again, I don't believe that's good for the players or the team's rebuild.

 

[MR4]

Matthews is weird because his impact has been so good that his only line change has been downgrading from Nylander to C. Brown, but opposing teams & Babcock have realized he's this good so the quality of the line he faces has increased and also the mentioned increase in minutes has made him our 1st line C. Instead of the common moving up the lines others do.

IMO Tippett should've been ordered to see what the kids are like by now since 4th line duties is never a confidence builder, and looks like the Yotes won't be making playoffs so you can try out the kids for the future.

 

[Alberta Yote]

I'd buy the line about the rookies not earning more time and opportunities if the vets were obviously outplaying them. They aren't.

 

[Jamieh]

It's not just about that, it's about best long term development of prospects. Would you rather have Getzlaf destroy Holland or Dvorak? It's just an example but that's what coaches do, they isolate kids to let them gain confidence and ability. We would be doing none of Crouse, Perlini, or Dvorak any favors by playing them in situations where they are outmatched this season on a regular basis.

I'd buy the line about the rookies not earning more time and opportunities if the vets were obviously outplaying them. They aren't.

 

[Hammertyme]

Rookie mistake!

F*** Gryba and f*** the ignorant masses Wednesday night b**tching and moaning about the "clean" hit.

Chych was engaged by an oiler already and was then hit in the head.

Thanks for the concussion/"upper body" to the promising 18 yr old dman.

I'm f***ing irate.

Hockey 101..don't duck under hits..leaves you exposed. Rule correction 2. More than 1 player can hit you.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Well we'll agree to disagree I guess. Their rookies have had consistent opportunities in all situations from day one. Ours have received the opposite. They are playing for the future first, today second. We are the reverse. We have the prospects we have. They will have to lead us out of this mess and we should be managing the rebuild that way. That's simply not happening imo with the rookies or second year players.

Ummm, here is Connor Brown's TOI in the 12 or so most recent games (he of two points against us in this game):

19:41
19:50
14:19
15:00
16:16
15:42
11:53
16:13
16:09
14:32
11:05

He is a second year player. Doesn't sound like he is getting gifted top line minutes and has varying minutes each night...

 

[BUX7PHX]

Also, take a look at how many players the Leafs have on their roster over the age of 28.

Komarov. Bozak. Hunwick. Polak. Not exactly what I would call world beaters.

We have Vrbata, Doan, Hanzal, and Goligoski as our four best over 28. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if we give the youth a bunch of playing time, it comes at the expense of some pretty capable players. If Toronto were to do the same, there isn't much that they are losing from the veterans, if anything at all.

I dunno - we have been in the 2nd year of a rebuild now. Toronto hasn't exactly lit the world on fire over the years (only playoff appearance in the last 7 seasons was a strike-shortened season). They have been building a nucleus of young talent that is better than ours. We have rapidly started to catch up as a result of good moves by our GM. Just seems like there is a comparison between two teams that have had far different pasts to get to this point.

 

[jacobhockey13]

Hockey 101..don't duck under hits..leaves you exposed. Rule correction 2. More than 1 player can hit you.

While Chychrun perhaps shouldn't have ducked, that doesn't mean Gryba is innocent. The hit was late and Chychrun was in an extremely vulnerable position. The onus is on Gryba as the player delivering the hit to take that into consideration. After watching the video in slow motion, the match penalty was the wrong call as I don't think Gryba intended to do it but it certainly could have been a major by itself as it was extremely reckless. We're a lot better off than it used to be but the league still has a long ways to go with player safety.

 

[jacobhockey13]

F*** Gryba and f*** the ignorant masses Wednesday night b**tching and moaning about the "clean" hit.

Chych was engaged by an oiler already and was then hit in the head.

Thanks for the concussion/"upper body" to the promising 18 yr old dman.

I'm f***ing irate.

I too wish the league would tell referees to call hitting from behind much more aggressively as well. Also I don't like the victim blaming mentality among fans. The player delivering the hit needs to be certain about the safety of his opponent.

 

[Lilhoody]

Free Yands.
View attachment 93219
Korean grammar disaster, but funny as ****.Wait till the next road trip, because abandoning Tipp in West Glendale isn't inconvenient enough. Uber back to Scottsdale is only like $20, not enough.
Holland on the power play. A ****ing waiver pickup from the Leafs. I give up.

He looks like Moe Howard!