Post-Game Talk: GAME 31 - WINNING UGLY - BRUINS 7 Sunrise Kittens 3

[burstnbloom]

Who was on the ice with him for those 3 goals?

Clifton for 2 and Carlo for 1. The first, second and fourth line were all on for 1 goal against each.

 

[BourqueFromORRk4277]

Who was on the ice with him for those 3 goals?

If I remember correctly, Clifton for 2, and Carlo for 1.

Gryz had an even +/-, so no goals were scored either way with him on the ice.

Other than a couple times when I thought he should of skated with the puck after stealing the puck near the net, and got pressured into throwing the puck up the boards that turned into turnovers because no winger was there to get the puck out, I thought Gryz had a great game.

2nd most ice time for defencemen, 3 blocks, and I lost count how many plays he broke up.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

They must have meant 28, who was on the ice for all 3 goals in 3 consecutive of his shifts, was on the ice for TWENTY ONE shot attempts against at even strength and has been on the ice for 8 of the last 11 goals surrendered.

he's 6'4 though

It's ok though he's a defensive defenseman. He's supposed to get scored on going by the logic his fans use.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

I know the team is constructed and coached differently now but I have the same feeling about Gryz as I did about Torey Krug(aside torey's offensive ability.)

Not durable enough for a playoff run, gets bullied, gets injured and him being out of the lineup abrupsts whatever defensive chemistry the team had.

That said, they need to keep him and hope he can stay healthy going into the postseason.

They can't afford to lose Gryz for a pick.

 

[burstnbloom]

It's ok though he's a defensive defenseman. He's supposed to get scored on going by the logic his fans use.

I just have a hard time reading these game threads sometimes because people are not capable of managing their confirmation bias. every game its Gryz and Carlo. Carlo is having one of the best defensive performances in the league. Gryz has the best 5v5 results on the team. yet every game thread people are railing on these guys. Well its not based on performance.

People think I hate forbort bc I hate forbort. They accuse me of what they are doing. I just get annoyed when i see poor results and then people hand waving them away. I dislike Forbort because he had well below average results last year. He's been mostly decent this year but he's massively dipped in the last week and, as I said, 8 of the last 11 goals happened with him on the ice.

But hey - lets just talk about Gryz being bad bc of unsustainable playoffs GA fortune. Or Carlo bc he's big but doesnt punch people? So weird.

 

[shelbysdad]

I know the team is constructed and coached differently now but I have the same feeling about Gryz as I did about Torey Krug(aside torey's offensive ability.)

Not durable enough for a playoff run, gets bullied, gets injured and him being out of the lineup abrupsts whatever defensive chemistry the team had.

That said, they need to keep him and hope he can stay healthy going into the postseason.

They can't afford to lose Gryz for a pick.

My hope is with Lindholm now, that will help Grz playoff matchups a bit. 73 and 27 should play a ton, and using Grz with favorable situations is a good thing.

Also depends on our opponent. If we are playing a skating team, no change in time.

If we are playing a lumbering team, try for the more favorable matchups

 

[weaponomega]

is he getting better like fine wine with age? There is literally no decline to his game at all, unreal

Unequivocally the most dominant defensive forward in NHL history. His ability to completely neutralize the best forwards in the NHL without sacrificing his offense is ridiculous.

 

[ODAAT]

Unequivocally the most dominant defensive forward in NHL history. His ability to completely neutralize the best forwards in the NHL without sacrificing his offense is ridiculous.

no argument here

 

[Kegs]

I just have a hard time reading these game threads sometimes because people are not capable of managing their confirmation bias. every game its Gryz and Carlo. Carlo is having one of the best defensive performances in the league. Gryz has the best 5v5 results on the team. yet every game thread people are railing on these guys. Well its not based on performance.

People think I hate forbort bc I hate forbort. They accuse me of what they are doing. I just get annoyed when i see poor results and then people hand waving them away. I dislike Forbort because he had well below average results last year. He's been mostly decent this year but he's massively dipped in the last week and, as I said, 8 of the last 11 goals happened with him on the ice.

But hey - lets just talk about Gryz being bad bc of unsustainable playoffs GA fortune. Or Carlo bc he's big but doesnt punch people? So weird.

Bruins fans do love when they punch ppl. Me included not gonna lie

 

[NDiesel]

I just have a hard time reading these game threads sometimes because people are not capable of managing their confirmation bias. every game its Gryz and Carlo. Carlo is having one of the best defensive performances in the league. Gryz has the best 5v5 results on the team. yet every game thread people are railing on these guys. Well its not based on performance.

People think I hate forbort bc I hate forbort. They accuse me of what they are doing. I just get annoyed when i see poor results and then people hand waving them away. I dislike Forbort because he had well below average results last year. He's been mostly decent this year but he's massively dipped in the last week and, as I said, 8 of the last 11 goals happened with him on the ice.

But hey - lets just talk about Gryz being bad bc of unsustainable playoffs GA fortune. Or Carlo bc he's big but doesnt punch people? So weird.

I haven't been able to watch the last few games, but my theory regarding Gryz/Carlo is that lots of what they do is too subtle for most people watching to see/understand. It's hard to appreciate and notice good positioning or good stick checking.

Additionally they arent physical, like you mentioned, nor do they put up big offensive numbers so people see one mistake and only remember that moment and rail them for it.

Pretty comical that if Carlo is tougher he's a fan favourite and if Gryz is bigger no one would talk negatively about his performance.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I just have a hard time reading these game threads sometimes because people are not capable of managing their confirmation bias. every game its Gryz and Carlo. Carlo is having one of the best defensive performances in the league. Gryz has the best 5v5 results on the team. yet every game thread people are railing on these guys. Well its not based on performance.

People think I hate forbort bc I hate forbort. They accuse me of what they are doing. I just get annoyed when i see poor results and then people hand waving them away. I dislike Forbort because he had well below average results last year. He's been mostly decent this year but he's massively dipped in the last week and, as I said, 8 of the last 11 goals happened with him on the ice.

But hey - lets just talk about Gryz being bad bc of unsustainable playoffs GA fortune. Or Carlo bc he's big but doesnt punch people? So weird.

You’re better than I at this stuff so I’m curious how Forbort has been on the PK, stats wise.

Is there a correlation between how different the PK was with Forbort on it and when he was injured?

I haven't been able to watch the last few games, but my theory regarding Gryz/Carlo is that lots of what they do is too subtle for most people watching to see/understand. It's hard to appreciate and notice good positioning or good stick checking.

Additionally they arent physical, like you mentioned, nor do they put up big offensive numbers so people see one mistake and only remember that moment and rail them for it.

Pretty comical that if Carlo is tougher he's a fan favourite and if Gryz is bigger no one would talk negatively about his performance.

Can we just Frankenstein them together and sprinkle a little McQuaid on it and create the best defensive defenseman in the league who is liked by the whole fan base.

 

[frankiess]

But hey - lets just talk about Gryz being bad bc of unsustainable playoffs GA fortune.

That's what it's all about, the playoffs. The opposition will dump the puck into his corner all night. Do you have any turnover data?

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

That's what it's all about, the playoffs. The opposition will dump the puck into his corner all night. Do you have any turnover data?

He had two (2) defensive zone turnovers in over 225 minutes in the 2021 playoffs. One (1) defensive zone turnover last playoffs in 90 minutes.

Five (5) in 329 minutes in 19. Chara and McAvoy had 12 that year, Carlo and Krug had 9 each.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

You’re better than I at this stuff so I’m curious how Forbort has been on the PK, stats wise.

Is there a correlation between how different the PK was with Forbort on it and when he was injured?



Can we just Frankenstein them together and sprinkle a little McQuaid on it and create the best defensive defenseman in the league who is liked by the whole fan base.

A little Boychuk too

 

[burstnbloom]

That's what it's all about, the playoffs. The opposition will dump the puck into his corner all night. Do you have any turnover data?

All of Gryz's shot and chance data in the playoffs is as high as his regular season 5v5 rates. His GF% in the regular season is usually around 58%, in the playoffs its considerably lower. For his GF% in the playoffs to not normalize to the rest of his shot and chance data, he would have to be the one player in the history of the league who is so ill suited to the playoffs that his performance shows up not in shots against or chances against,but specifically in goals against, because of something he has done. It takes A LOT of hating short kings to believe that.

 

[frankiess]

All of Gryz's shot and chance data in the playoffs is as high as his regular season 5v5 rates. His GF% in the regular season is usually around 58%, in the playoffs its considerably lower. For his GF% in the playoffs to not normalize to the rest of his shot and chance data, he would have to be the one player in the history of the league who is so ill suited to the playoffs that his performance shows up not in shots against or chances against,but specifically in goals against, because of something he has done. It takes A LOT of hating short kings to believe that.

One would expect it to be lower in the playoffs. That doesnt change anything. They're coming after him n the playoffs because he's not as strong on the boards as the others. If Grzelcyk isn't there, the opposition will go after the defenseman that they think is the least capable. As has been said here previously, it comes down to who Grzelcyk is paired with and who he is matched up against.
What is with the ''hate'' thing? I don't hate anyone. If Grzelcyk is with the Bruins come playoffs, I hope he scores the Stanley Cup winning goal.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

One would expect it to be lower in the playoffs. That doesnt change anything. They're coming after him n the playoffs because he's not as strong on the boards as the others. If Grzelcyk isn't there, the opposition will go after the defenseman that they think is the least capable. As has been said here previously, it comes down to who Grzelcyk is paired with and who he is matched up against.
What is with the ''hate'' thing? I don't hate anyone. If Grzelcyk is with the Bruins come playoffs, I hope he scores the Stanley Cup winning goal.

In 2022 his expected goal differential was -.8. It ended up being -7. That’s pretty much unpossible.

Except…in 21 his expected was +4…and ended up a -3. Again, basically never happens. Like 5 standard deviations off.

In 20 his expected was +3.4. Ended up a -4.

Three playoffs where the delta is 6+ between the two is unheard of. A statistical anomaly based on all his other numbers. It’s bizarro world. And as @burstnbloom said, virtually impossible to explain.

 

[whatsbruin]

A little Boychuk too

You should throw in a lot of Orr , Bourque, and Chara while your at it.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

You should throw in a lot of Orr , Bourque, and Chara while your at it.

Had that thought after I posted

 

[burstnbloom]

One would expect it to be lower in the playoffs. That doesnt change anything. They're coming after him n the playoffs because he's not as strong on the boards as the others. If Grzelcyk isn't there, the opposition will go after the defenseman that they think is the least capable. As has been said here previously, it comes down to who Grzelcyk is paired with and who he is matched up against.
What is with the ''hate'' thing? I don't hate anyone. If Grzelcyk is with the Bruins come playoffs, I hope he scores the Stanley Cup winning goal.

No. they wouldn't. That's the point. There has never been a player in the history of hockey analytics who had chance data so divergent from the GF data. You'd have to believe that he is uniquely breaking the expected trend of literally millions upon millions of data points. There has never been a player with Gryz's xG metrics in the playoffs sustain such a negative GF%. could he be the one? sure. Could the sun explode and erase any evidence that any of us exist? More likely.

And the "hate" thing comes from dozens upon dozens of people who are shown this information and refuse to believe it.

 

[frankiess]

No. they wouldn't. That's the point. There has never been a player in the history of hockey analytics who had chance data so divergent from the GF data. You'd have to believe that he is uniquely breaking the expected trend of literally millions upon millions of data points. There has never been a player with Gryz's xG metrics in the playoffs sustain such a negative GF%. could he be the one? sure. Could the sun explode and erase any evidence that any of us exist? More likely.

And the "hate" thing comes from dozens upon dozens of people who are shown this information and refuse to believe it.

Forget about that stuff for now. Out of the six Bruins defenseman, from last game, where do you rate Grzelcyk?

 

[Sheppy]

Foligno with 2 goals in his last 26 games. Not sure if we should be concerned yet again...

 

[Gee Wally]

Foligno with 2 goals in his last 26 games. Not sure if we should be concerned yet again...

Im not.
its even more evident now what he means to those guys.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Foligno looks much more engaged this year and I love how he has stuck up for teammates/ looks like he's 'seeing red' and actually cares.

 

[Sheppy]

Foligno looks much more engaged this year and I love how he has stuck up for teammates/ looks like he's 'seeing red' and actually cares.

I agree.

I think despite this bad stretch offensively, he's still moving his feet, he's definitely more engaged.