GDT: Game 3. Blues (1-0-1) vs Desert Puppies (1-2-0) 7PM CST BSMW

[Davimir Tarablad]

Perron ripping 1 timers from the left side was the first option on our PP for his last year here. The year before that, we brought in Hoffman specifically so that we'd have them parked as one-timer threats on each side. We ran our PP around having 1 time threats until last year.

Completely forgot about Hoffman, and I could've sworn Perron was more snap shot based than one-timers, but I stand corrected.

 

[Brian39]

Even in the following context this is far too small a sample size, but last night's game showed that if we have any designs on a short re-tool, we need to make sure that we have the cap space to re-sign Buch, even if it is at a price that makes us uncomfortable. He might not be wearing a letter or even considered part of the "leadership core" but he is inarguably the "straw that stirs the drink" for this team.

Last season provides a much larger sample size:

Last year the team was 31-27-5 with Buch in the lineup (87 point pace) and 6-11-2 with him out of the lineup (60 point pace).

We were also +21 at 5 on 5 with Buch on the ice last year and -29 at 5 on 5 when he wasn't on the ice.

I firmly believe that Buch is the most underrated player in the NHL.

 

[Thallis]

The Blues averaged 5,000 empty seats in 2005/2006, about 6,500 empty seats in 2006/07, and about 1,500 empty seats in 2007/08. And they were practically giving away tickets those years. The youth movement absolutely drove attendance moving forward, but not until after the team lost out on tens of millions of dollars in revenue.

I have never heard anyone claim owning the Blues from 2006-2013 was a financial success for Checketts and his investment partners and the team amassed an enormous amount of debt under them. I don't think that era of the Blues is a case study on financial success.

I have some very strong push back about the notion that the ticket/merch sales when you pull out of a tank outweigh the years of massive revenue loss during a tank.


Perron ripping 1 timers from the left side was the first option on our PP for his last year here. The year before that, we brought in Hoffman specifically so that we'd have them parked as one-timer threats on each side. We ran our PP around having 1 time threats until last year.

You have to look at what you're comparing to though. Mediocre teams that annually finish 10th-18th aren't teams that sell out every game. The Jets just had a game with 5k empty seats. That's probably not their average game this season, but that's a Canadian city that was begging for its team back 10 years ago. They have been in this hole for 4 years now and just committed to it long term. At the same time, they are inarguably closer to contention than we are and could very plausibly make the playoffs this season. That's the choice. You're not choosing between financial success or ruin, you're choosing to rip the bandaid off for an actual tangible plan moving forward. It's crystal clear to me that this is what should be the expectation for sports team ownership.

 

[joe galiba]

Even in the following context this is far too small a sample size, but last night's game showed that if we have any designs on a short re-tool, we need to make sure that we have the cap space to re-sign Buch, even if it is at a price that makes us uncomfortable. He might not be wearing a letter or even considered part of the "leadership core" but he is inarguably the "straw that stirs the drink" for this team.

Buch reminds me of Steen when we first acquired him, after watching him Steen a bit, it was "they gave Steen for what?", what the hell was Toronto looking at?
to me, Buch is exactly the same kind of player, I know the Rangers had cap stuff, but WTH were they thinking?

 

[Thallis]

Buch reminds me of Steen when we first acquired him, after watching him Steen a bit, it was "they gave Steen for what?", what the hell was Toronto looking at?
to me, Buch is exactly the same kind of player, I know the Rangers had cap stuff, but WTH were they thinking?

They weren't really thinking, they were being haunted by Tom Wilson in their nightmares

 

[Brian39]

You have to look at what you're comparing to though. Mediocre teams that annually finish 10th-18th aren't teams that sell out every game. The Jets just had a game with 5k empty seats. That's probably not their average game this season, but that's a Canadian city that was begging for its team back 10 years ago. They have been in this hole for 4 years now and just committed to it long term. At the same time, they are inarguably closer to contention than we are and could very plausibly make the playoffs this season. That's the choice. You're not choosing between financial success or ruin, you're choosing to rip the bandaid off for an actual tangible plan moving forward. It's crystal clear to me that this is what should be the expectation for sports team ownership.

Nashville's attendance has been steadily around capacity since the trip to the Final in 2017 even though they have been decidedly mediocre for the last 4 years.

Minnesota's attendance has been steadily around capacity for years despite being the NHL's poster child of mediocrity.

Vancouver's attendance has been steadily around capacity for years despite being consistently mediocre.

Dallas' attendance has been steadily around capacity for years despite being consistently mediocre.

Selling mediocrity has been a viable business strategy around the league for years. I think people vastly underestimate the number of people who enjoy watching and can get excited about the 14th best team in the league. Beyond season ticket renewals, most of the people you are selling your product to are people who don't watch a ton of hockey around the league and don't have a detailed understanding of what it takes to be a real contender. Those of us who post here have a pretty good understanding about the tiers of quality among the various NHL teams, but a fan who only watches one team (and maybe only 30 games a year) can easily buy into a team 'having a shot if they can get into the playoffs.'

I think the average person in a seat at the Enterprise Center has a tenuous-to-nonexistent understanding of goaltending, gap control, systems, and defensive coverage. Most goals against have multiple mistakes that culminate in the resulting goal. On any given sellout crowd, I'd be shocked if there were more than 5,000 people in the crowd who could articulate more than one for any given goal.

I think this board's view of a a bubble or playoff team (with flaws that prevent it from truly contending) drastically differs from how confident the average fan is of a team that wins enough games to make the playoffs most of the time.

A team has already left Winnipeg because the market is so damn small. The NHL took boatloads of criticism from people insisting that Winnipeg was full of die hard fans that would support the team no matter what. The 13,000 people who got season tickets in year 1 had to make 5 year commitments to get the best price and 3 year commitments to buy them at full face value. Suites required a 10 year commitment. Then there was an 8,000 person waiting list. For 5+ years it was difficult to get a ticket to a Jets game without paying way over face value. Then season ticket holders dropped off and people from the waitlist started sliding in. The 2020/21 COVID year is the year that all the 10 year commitments expired and the waitlist was depleted by that year. I think their perpetual mediocrity is definitely driving attendance issues, but I think that the reality of the market is a bigger driver. I don't think that they are the norm of what happens when fans consistently 'only' see a playoff team.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

They weren't really thinking, they were being haunted by Tom Wilson in their nightmares

As strange as that deal felt at the time, it feels even stranger now given we reacquired Blais from them.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Nice to see what Bill is doing with Arizona.

This season will last for Berube in Blues. I wonder what will take to to fire Doug.

It would be wild if both Doug and Bill bring a Cup each to a franchise that’s never won it all. The Yotes story is far, far sadder than ours before our Cup. Like to see them win it all in a -college rink-. Now that’s a comeback story for you.

 

[joe galiba]

It would be wild if both Doug and Bill bring a Cup each to a franchise that’s never won it all. The Yotes story is far, far sadder than ours before our Cup. Like to see them win it all in a -college rink-. Now that’s a comeback story for you.

NO
Buffalo first, then the Yotes

 

[oPlaiD]

Buch reminds me of Steen when we first acquired him, after watching him Steen a bit, it was "they gave Steen for what?", what the hell was Toronto looking at?
to me, Buch is exactly the same kind of player, I know the Rangers had cap stuff, but WTH were they thinking?

They're both kind of similar though in that you can watch them play an individual game and they don't do any one particular thing that really makes you go "WOW." They just did every single aspect of playing hockey at a high level and the overall impact of that sneaks up on you. You'd think after Buchnevich was PPG he'd start getting rated more, but I think being on a mediocre team that's in no-man's land keeps him under the radar.

 

[ezcreepin]

Last season provides a much larger sample size:

Last year the team was 31-27-5 with Buch in the lineup (87 point pace) and 6-11-2 with him out of the lineup (60 point pace).

We were also +21 at 5 on 5 with Buch on the ice last year and -29 at 5 on 5 when he wasn't on the ice.

I firmly believe that Buch is the most underrated player in the NHL.

The ole Schwartz effect. For whatever reason, the team does insanely well with him, except in this case Buch is a superior player than Schwartz

 

[GoldenSeal]

NO
Buffalo first, then the Yotes

Silly man, I never said when or what order .

Both franchises are long due for the Cup.

 

[TheDizee]

 

[Mike Liut]

We better hope Snuggs and Dvorsky are hall of famers

 

[542365]

Buch reminds me of Steen when we first acquired him, after watching him Steen a bit, it was "they gave Steen for what?", what the hell was Toronto looking at?
to me, Buch is exactly the same kind of player, I know the Rangers had cap stuff, but WTH were they thinking?

They had just picked Laf and Kakko in back to back drafts at 1 and 2, and previously picked Kravtsov and Andersson top 10 as well. They thought they had their forward group set with Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider etc. along with these young players they thought were going to be studs. Worked out great for the Blues obviously. Buch's only weakness is that he's on the IR for 15+ games each year.

 

[Reality Czech]

Even in the following context this is far too small a sample size, but last night's game showed that if we have any designs on a short re-tool, we need to make sure that we have the cap space to re-sign Buch, even if it is at a price that makes us uncomfortable. He might not be wearing a letter or even considered part of the "leadership core" but he is inarguably the "straw that stirs the drink" for this team.

Was thinking about Buch the other day and how much money he might command. From his perspective, is he really going to take a lower AAV than Thomas/Kyrou considering he puts up similar (if not higher) point totals but also plays a big role on defense and the PK? Can the Blues ice a competitive roster with 3 $8 million forwards plus the other contracts we already have? Honestly he could make the argument that he deserves more than Thomas and Kyrou and I can't see the Blues going that high. Going to be an interesting situation to watch, but I am unfortunately skeptical about Buch being on the roster beyond next year.

 

[Mike Liut]

Was thinking about Buch the other day and how much money he might command. From his perspective, is he really going to take a lower AAV than Thomas/Kyrou considering he puts up similar (if not higher) point totals but also plays a big role on defense and the PK? Can the Blues ice a competitive roster with 3 $8 million forwards plus the other contracts we already have? Honestly he could make the argument that he deserves more than Thomas and Kyrou and I can't see the Blues going that high. Going to be an interesting situation to watch, but I am unfortunately skeptical about Buch being on the roster beyond next year.

Buch won’t take a discount on a rebuilding team. We are 3 years away from being competitive imo.

 

[Reality Czech]

Buch won’t take a discount on a rebuilding team. We are 3 years away from being competitive imo.

That's what I'm thinking, especially because he's underpaid right now considering what he brings. He'll be 30 when his contract expires, so he'll be looking to cash in and I don't blame him one bit.

 

[Blueston]

That's what I'm thinking, especially because he's underpaid right now considering what he brings. He'll be 30 when his contract expires, so he'll be looking to cash in and I don't blame him one bit.

This is why he should be dealt. We aren’t good enough to take advantage of rest of his prime and don’t want to pay him huge $ on backside of his career when we might be good. Because don’t want to go 8 years for 30yo on bad team and if we go 5-6 years I couid see him getting AAV over 9.

 

[Mike Liut]

This is why he should be dealt. We aren’t good enough to take advantage of rest of his prime and don’t want to pay him huge $ on backside of his career when we might be good. Because don’t want to go 8 years for 30yo on bad team and if we go 5-6 years I couid see him getting AAV over 9.

agree

This is why he should be dealt. We aren’t good enough to take advantage of rest of his prime and don’t want to pay him huge $ on backside of his career when we might be good. Because don’t want to go 8 years for 30yo on bad team and if we go 5-6 years I couid see him getting AAV over 9.

is getting a top 5 pick and getting a haul for Buch and Vrana too much to ask for? This is where I stand. I’m rooting for Buch and Vrana to tear it up this year.