Post-Game Talk: Game #25: Blackhawks 2, Canucks 1 - Six goals? Nah, one goal will do fine...

[y2kcanucks]

I'm done with this. In fact, I've wasted too much of my time on this. If people really want to blame the goalie for this team losing when our offense has been as putrid as it's been, go right ahead. It's completely 100% void of logic, but if it makes you feel better about this team then by all means. I'm more concerned about our offense, the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows et. al than I am about our goaltender who's shown in November that he's back to his elite form.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Jesus christ, have you guys been at this all night?

You may address me as "Sir", you need not use my full name.

 

[topched88]

Because if he gives up a bad goal and the goalie at the other end doesn't, the team will usually lose. All Luongo had to do was not give up a crap goal to a grinder last night and the team would have come away with 1 or 2 points. That's how fine the line is from winning and losing.

It was a 2 on 1 from the blueline in because of a horrible pinch, thats a goal that gets scored in the nhl on a nightly basis but you guys shred luongo for it thats why poeple become defensive....how you guys look at that goal and pin luongo as the main person to blame is illogical

 

[ahmon]

I'm done with this. In fact, I've wasted too much of my time on this. If people really want to blame the goalie for this team losing when our offense has been as putrid as it's been, go right ahead. It's completely 100% void of logic, but if it makes you feel better about this team then by all means. I'm more concerned about our offense, the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows et. al than I am about our goaltender who's shown in November that he's back to his elite form.

I think a lot of people agree with you. The main problem is not goaltending.

But guess what, when the team loses, people get upset, blaming the goalie is basically a tradition among all markets. IMO, it comes with the position.

 

[Brenton Williams]

I'm done with this. In fact, I've wasted too much of my time on this. If people really want to blame the goalie for this team losing when our offense has been as putrid as it's been, go right ahead. It's completely 100% void of logic, but if it makes you feel better about this team then by all means. I'm more concerned about our offense, the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows et. al than I am about our goaltender who's shown in November that he's back to his elite form.

Even though there may be literally hundreds of posts explaining why 'the offense' and 'Luongo' are different issues, you still fail to grasp the extremely simple concept.

I thought the 'fault' pie might help, but to no avail.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Luongo back to elite form now, let's in at least one questionable goal in a 2GA game... Hmmm, does not compute. Do elite players let in 1 or 2 suspect goals in a 9 second span?

Subjective I know, but "elite" was the furthest adjective from mind when I saw that sequence. Difference opinion I suppose.

 

[Upoil]

I'm done with this. In fact, I've wasted too much of my time on this. If people really want to blame the goalie for this team losing when our offense has been as putrid as it's been, go right ahead. It's completely 100% void of logic, but if it makes you feel better about this team then by all means. I'm more concerned about our offense, the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows et. al than I am about our goaltender who's shown in November that he's back to his elite form.

Once again. Please provide one example of people strictly blaming the goaltending and giving the offense a free pass.

You keep implying and saying that this is happening and after reading the entire thread it seems like you are just making this up.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Because if he gives up a bad goal and the goalie at the other end doesn't, the team will usually lose. All Luongo had to do was not give up a crap goal to a grinder last night and the team would have come away with 1 or 2 points. That's how fine the line is from winning and losing.

I see a lot of people blaming the goalie- which to me suggests they like the current "chicken with their head cut off" style of play the Canucks are employing, and fault the goaltender for this start.

While Luongo hasn't been 'elite' or even "great", he's been good enough to win games, which is what I think you need out of a goaltender these days.

What is scary is that we couldn't even keep up with Chicago in terms of speed or possession of play. They are clearly the better skating team and by far have the better personnel, capable of dominating possession.

I guess its a tale of two preferences: You'd rather see the goalie win games, I'd rather the team be able to skate well and dominate puck possession.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It was a 2 on 1 from the blueline in because of a horrible pinch, thats a goal that gets scored in the nhl on a nightly basis but you guys shred luongo for it thats why poeple become defensive....how you guys look at that goal and pin luongo as the main person to blame is illogical

First, that goal went 5 hole. Next, Bieksa had apart of the shooting area covered by sliding. After that, Luongo does not use his stick properly in preventing such a goal. And last, he was caught cheating a bit by looking to the other player driving the net and not focusing on the shooter.

Horrible pinch, oddly played 2 on 1, but Luongo compounded matters with poor decisions and execution. Not all him, but not all others either. He shares the blame.

 

[arsmaster*]

The goaltending as much as people want to call it a "problem" is not a problem at all for me.

The goaltending we are getting is good enough to be winning with.

Unfortunately we can't put pucks in the net.

I'm not sure I can speak for y2k, but in my eyes the fact we're even talking about goaltending when we've lost 6 of 7 while only scoring more than 1 goal occurred on one occasion.

Goaltending could be better but it should be good enough.

Note that bleach. Put it in your records.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

First, that goal went 5 hole. Next, Bieksa had apart of the shooting area covered by sliding. After that, Luongo does not use his stick properly in preventing such a goal. And last, he was caught cheating a bit by looking to the other player driving the net and not focusing on the shooter.

Horrible pinch, oddly played 2 on 1, but Luongo compounded matters with poor decisions and execution. Not all him, but not all others either. He shares the blame.

Absolutely. I see two options for this team if they want to make a serious playoff push:
1. Seriously upgrade the perssonnel on the team via trade. Youth, speed, Net presence and puck possession need to be priorities in looking for upgrades.

2. Slow the play down and play a much more defensive style. Tortorella's coaching preferences in terms of puck pressure and forecheck, combined with this lacking roster makes the team look like a novice team running around chasing the puck. Shut it down, play the trap and most importantly-more zone defence.

 

[Canucker]

I see a lot of people blaming the goalie- which to me suggests they like the current "chicken with their head cut off" style of play the Canucks are employing, and fault the goaltender for this start.

While Luongo hasn't been 'elite' or even "great", he's been good enough to win games, which is what I think you need out of a goaltender these days.

What is scary is that we couldn't even keep up with Chicago in terms of speed or possession of play. They are clearly the better skating team and by far have the better personnel, capable of dominating possession.

I guess its a tale of two preferences: You'd rather see the goalie win games, I'd rather the team be able to skate well and dominate puck possession.

He's been good enough to win games if the offense is scoring at a solid clip, which they haven't. He used to win those games for us, but he doesn't anymore. The offense is partially to blame, and so is Luongo...this team needs more offense and/or it needs better goaltending...either way, neither side is as good as it needs to be in order to get the W.

 

[StringerBell]

The goaltending as much as people want to call it a "problem" is not a problem at all for me.

The goaltending we are getting is good enough to be winning with.

Unfortunately we can't put pucks in the net.

I'm not sure I can speak for y2k, but in my eyes the fact we're even talking about goaltending when we've lost 6 of 7 while only scoring more than 1 goal occurred on one occasion.

Goaltending could be better but it should be good enough.

Note that bleach. Put it in your records.

The reason we're not talking about scoring is because everyone agrees it needs to be better. The reason we're talking about goaltending is because we've gone from getting zero or one GA ~35% of the time to ~10% of the time and people have different opinions on it.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Even though there may be literally hundreds of posts explaining why 'the offense' and 'Luongo' are different issues, you still fail to grasp the extremely simple concept.

I thought the 'fault' pie might help, but to no avail.

Can you explain to me how the team's inability to skate with other teams or win in terms of puck possession does not effect a goaltenders performance?

 

[Basso]

This is the worst, Canucks dominate a team and lose again while in bizzarro world Reimer makes 50 saves and leafs get 2 points

I know this can't continue forever. I just hate seeing so many grade A chances go wide, hit the post, hop off a stick, get blocked at just the right angle, get completely stoned in tight, etc etc etc AD ****ING NAUSEAM

Is it December yet?

I firmly believe it won't be long before these start going in, the Canucks this year have been playing much better than they have in years and yet have more losses to show for it. Everyone wants to trade for a scorer, well I can't blame them as I'm starting to have a hard time holding my gasket when a huge open net gets wasted. But I know it's a long season...

my thoughts exactly. It already feels like so many points are wasted due to all these chances somehow not going in the net. The gap we are creating in the standings is already becoming insurmountable.

 

[arsmaster*]

The reason we're not talking about scoring is because everyone agrees it needs to be better. The reason we're talking about goaltending is because we've gone from getting zero or one GA ~35% of the time to ~10% of the time and people have different opinions on it.

Fair enough. In hindsight maybe those stats just show the goaltending was lipstick on a pig.

Every thing is about a percentage of this and percentage of that now though.

This team as a whole just isn't as good as we want it to be. You know what else Cory Schneider is gone kids. Move on, he has.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

The reason we're not talking about scoring is because everyone agrees it needs to be better. The reason we're talking about goaltending is because we've gone from getting zero or one GA ~35% of the time to ~10% of the time and people have different opinions on it.

But it's unfair to look at how often we allow less than 2 goals without looking at how often we allow more than 2 goals.

If one goalie allows say, 1, 3, 1, 3, 1 ,3 goals against and another allows 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, would you say one goalie is outplaying the other?

Just because the way our scoring has been distributed we'd have more points with the goalie who goes 1, 3... doesn't mean that the goalie is better, when if we consistently score 2 or 3 goals we'd have a better record with the one who consistently allows 2.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

I see a lot of people blaming the goalie- which to me suggests they like the current "chicken with their head cut off" style of play the Canucks are employing, and fault the goaltender for this start.


I guess its a tale of two preferences: You'd rather see the goalie win games, I'd rather the team be able to skate well and dominate puck possession.

I couldn't see things more differently. The Canucks have been outstanding defensively this season and put their goalie in a position to look excellent. Luongo has not looked excellent - he's looked okay.

The team also has dominated puck possession and skated as well as to be expected against such a strong field of competition. The team is better compared to the field in terms of puck possession than Luongo has been compared to the field of opposing goalies.

The Canucks have improved their possession game from last season, unfortunately, they also traded Cory Schneider and are now relying on a guy that physically doesn't look capable of playing up to the level of the goalie he replaced.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The reason we're not talking about scoring is because everyone agrees it needs to be better. The reason we're talking about goaltending is because we've gone from getting zero or one GA ~35% of the time to ~10% of the time and people have different opinions on it.

Yup. And while you have been far more PC in your stance of differing opinions, I find it hilarious that a secondary issue can be completely glossed over like this. Its not the issue but it is in fact an issue.

@arsmaster: Well noted. I look forward to the next Sedin argument from Y2K and your subsequent response. The irony here is amazing.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I couldn't see things more differently. The Canucks have been outstanding defensively this season and put their goalie in a position to look excellent. Luongo has not looked excellent - he's looked okay.

The team also has dominated puck possession and skated as well as to be expected against such a strong field of competition. The team is better compared to the field in terms of puck possession than Luongo has been compared to the field of opposing goalies.

The Canucks have improved their possession game from last season, unfortunately, they also traded Cory Schneider and are now relying on a guy that physically doesn't look capable of playing up to the level of the goalie he replaced.

I guess we really do see things differently. this team cannot compete right now with the top teams in the west in terms of puck possession or speed. They get boxed out too easily and rely on perimeter play and shots. That is what I see as the primary problem.

Watching 4-5 non Canuck NHL games a week this season has convinced me the goaltending the Canucks are receiving is good enough to make the playoffs.

 

[Karl Hungus]

I find it hard to fault Luongo too much on the goals. Which goal are people taking issue with? One was a tip in close and the other one was a 2 on 1 where the guy got to shoot from deep inside the faceoff circle. It was super disappointing to see the game slip away on two quick goals but I think Luongo made enough clutch stops early that it's unreasonable to blame him for a goal that you view as stoppable in the 3rd. The Hawks really outskated the Canucks all night. Their speed was smothering and they were on a whole different level in terms of puck movement. I would say that the Tortorella system is particularly vulnerable to a team like the Hawks that can counter attack as well as they do.

 

[StringerBell]

But it's unfair to look at how often we allow less than 2 goals without looking at how often we allow more than 2 goals.

If one goalie allows say, 1, 3, 1, 3, 1 ,3 goals against and another allows 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, would you say one goalie is outplaying the other?

Just because the way our scoring has been distributed we'd have more points with the goalie who goes 1, 3... doesn't mean that the goalie is better, when if we consistently score 2 or 3 goals we'd have a better record with the one who consistently allows 2.

You said yourself Luongo needs to improve. Not sure why you're taking so much issue with other people saying it.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

I guess we really do see things differently. this team cannot compete right now with the top teams in the west in terms of puck possession or speed. They get boxed out too easily and rely on perimeter play and shots. That is what I see as the primary problem.

Watching 4-5 non Canuck NHL games a week this season has convinced me the goaltending the Canucks are receiving is good enough to make the playoffs.

I don't know, I watched the Canucks walk into the buildings of the 3 best home teams in the league and outplay and out possession all 3 of them. Vancouver has fared well against San Jose in 2 straight, Anaheim, Phoenix, Chicago etc...

I agree they struggle to get to the net enough and lack skill and finish but in terms of possession, they're right up their with the other top clubs IMO. A step below the top few elite teams.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

You said yourself Luongo needs to improve. Not sure why you're taking so much issue with other people saying it.

Luongo as a player is not playing at his best, but that does not mean he's the reason our record has been bad. We would have needed a shutout to get another win this month, and if Luongo had recorded one he would lead the league in shutouts but we'd only have one extra win, which is hardly enough to merit assigning a significant portion of blame onto him for our slump.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I guess we really do see things differently. this team cannot compete right now with the top teams in the west in terms of puck possession or speed. They get boxed out too easily and rely on perimeter play and shots. That is what I see as the primary problem.

Watching 4-5 non Canuck NHL games a week this season has convinced me the goaltending the Canucks are receiving is good enough to make the playoffs.

That bolded phrase is false. The Canucks are 6th in close score Fenwick %. The Canucks also won CF% battle last night with 54.8% vs. 44.6%. Possession is with Canucks. Execution and conversion is not.