Game #22: Kings vs. Lightning - 11/19/13 - Regulation Win! 5-2

[etherialone]

Sorry ... DL's done well... but saying he looks smart? Sure if you ignore he didn't make changes that were needed until injuries forced him to. Oh wait that's right the Kids weren't ready for the NHL. Much better to start the season with an offense that was around 24-20th.

What are you talking about?

The kids were ready but we had a full roster. A full roster of signed NHLers who the team had made commitments to and we can't just throw guys away without giving them a chance, especially after we have signed contracts with them. I know it is different in the video game world or in fantasy leagues but one of the key reasons that our franchise turned itself around was due to the fact that our GM started honoring his agreements or doing his best to do so.

Gone were the days of making a promise to a player and then burning them shortly there after. Take a look at the Flyers entire franchise do you think that the people who play there wouldn't leave without giving it a second thought if something better came along? Of course they would. That is the way we ran things forever around here and when we finally changed our teams philosophy our franchise turned itself around. Sure, there is more to it than that but you hear DL talk about accountability all the time and THAT is exactly what he holds himself to as well as the people who work for him and our players.

Besides, DL didn't wait for jack crap. How many losses do we have today? 50? 1000? No. We have 6 losses and are just over 20 games into the season so I can't see how anyone can even begin to complain with the amount of time taken for us to try a few different things.

We are a championship team and you don't go running around like a panicky teenager everytime things slip a little bit. You remain patient. You ask your staff and our your players what they think needs to happen and then you make the decisions required to help move things in a forward direction. Period.

DL looks like a genius because waiting on the farm is a wealth of talented kids. We called up 3 great young players all of whom have made an impact in their own ways and we still have 3 more at least who are at the ready if needed (Shore Andy Andy Kozun to name a few).

When we won our cup we called 3 rookies up. Last year we relied on a rookie to fill a very important position and this year so far we have called up 3 more and could do more if needed. DL is a freaking genius for having us so very deep on the farm that we can constantly rely on our depth and our system to to fill any areas of need rather than dealing away all of our depth on the hopes that we can bring in a bandaid like everyone else has to do.

Its cool not to see eye to eye on everything but I don't get where your coming from at all on this one. DL has us loaded for a championship run and ready to do so for the next couple of years at least. That was my point.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I'm not quite sold on Scrivens just yet. From what I've seen, he's made the required/easy saves. That's not to say that he's not a good goalie. Just that, he's yet to have been tested, that's all.

 

[Dropdapuck]

What are you talking about?

The kids were ready but we had a full roster. A full roster of signed NHLers who the team had made commitments to and we can't just throw guys away without giving them a chance, especially after we have signed contracts with them. I know it is different in the video game world or in fantasy leagues but one of the key reasons that our franchise turned itself around was due to the fact that our GM started honoring his agreements or doing his best to do so.

Gone were the days of making a promise to a player and then burning them shortly there after. Take a look at the Flyers entire franchise do you think that the people who play there wouldn't leave without giving it a second thought if something better came along? Of course they would. That is the way we ran things forever around here and when we finally changed our teams philosophy our franchise turned itself around. Sure, there is more to it than that but you hear DL talk about accountability all the time and THAT is exactly what he holds himself to as well as the people who work for him and our players.

Besides, DL didn't wait for jack crap. How many losses do we have today? 50? 1000? No. We have 6 losses and are just over 20 games into the season so I can't see how anyone can even begin to complain with the amount of time taken for us to try a few different things.

We are a championship team and you don't go running around like a panicky teenager everytime things slip a little bit. You remain patient. You ask your staff and our your players what they think needs to happen and then you make the decisions required to help move things in a forward direction. Period.

DL looks like a genius because waiting on the farm is a wealth of talented kids. We called up 3 great young players all of whom have made an impact in their own ways and we still have 3 more at least who are at the ready if needed (Shore Andy Andy Kozun to name a few).

When we won our cup we called 3 rookies up. Last year we relied on a rookie to fill a very important position and this year so far we have called up 3 more and could do more if needed. DL is a freaking genius for having us so very deep on the farm that we can constantly rely on our depth and our system to to fill any areas of need rather than dealing away all of our depth on the hopes that we can bring in a bandaid like everyone else has to do.

Its cool not to see eye to eye on everything but I don't get where your coming from at all on this one. DL has us loaded for a championship run and ready to do so for the next couple of years at least. That was my point.

+1 ....and our rookies are no longer given a position. They have to take it away from a good veteran. What's wrong with that? It would have been great for guys like Wilse or Zeiler to have had to try to take a position away from someone decent.

 

[The Butcher]

What are you talking about?

The kids were ready but we had a full roster. A full roster of signed NHLers who the team had made commitments to and we can't just throw guys away without giving them a chance, especially after we have signed contracts with them. I know it is different in the video game world or in fantasy leagues but one of the key reasons that our franchise turned itself around was due to the fact that our GM started honoring his agreements or doing his best to do so.

Gone were the days of making a promise to a player and then burning them shortly there after. Take a look at the Flyers entire franchise do you think that the people who play there wouldn't leave without giving it a second thought if something better came along? Of course they would. That is the way we ran things forever around here and when we finally changed our teams philosophy our franchise turned itself around. Sure, there is more to it than that but you hear DL talk about accountability all the time and THAT is exactly what he holds himself to as well as the people who work for him and our players.

Besides, DL didn't wait for jack crap. How many losses do we have today? 50? 1000? No. We have 6 losses and are just over 20 games into the season so I can't see how anyone can even begin to complain with the amount of time taken for us to try a few different things.

We are a championship team and you don't go running around like a panicky teenager everytime things slip a little bit. You remain patient. You ask your staff and our your players what they think needs to happen and then you make the decisions required to help move things in a forward direction. Period.

DL looks like a genius because waiting on the farm is a wealth of talented kids. We called up 3 great young players all of whom have made an impact in their own ways and we still have 3 more at least who are at the ready if needed (Shore Andy Andy Kozun to name a few).

When we won our cup we called 3 rookies up. Last year we relied on a rookie to fill a very important position and this year so far we have called up 3 more and could do more if needed. DL is a freaking genius for having us so very deep on the farm that we can constantly rely on our depth and our system to to fill any areas of need rather than dealing away all of our depth on the hopes that we can bring in a bandaid like everyone else has to do.

Its cool not to see eye to eye on everything but I don't get where your coming from at all on this one. DL has us loaded for a championship run and ready to do so for the next couple of years at least. That was my point.

It always feels like your wisdom falls on deaf ears. Year after year.

 

[CowMix]

Muzzin was a -4 very early in the season -- he is now -1 and should be even (getting robbed of a + last night on the Kopi goal). The Muzzin/Greene pairing was awful. Moreover, Muzzin's offense is > his defensive shortcomings (which are grossly exaggerated). Doughty has figured out how to take advantage of his passing out of the zone to catch the other team napping.

It might make sense to rotate Greene, Regehr and Mitchell although there is some risk in that.

His offensive production and defensive shortcomings is equally rated. Why is it bad to limit Muzzin's defensive role? He will still get plenty of opportunities offensively.

 

[kingsfan]

It always feels like your wisdom falls on deaf ears. Year after year.

Not with me, I'm a TG disciple. He's my Bob McKenzie Great post TG!

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I'm not quite sold on Scrivens just yet. From what I've seen, he's made the required/easy saves. That's not to say that he's not a good goalie. Just that, he's yet to have been tested, that's all.

I think he makes saves look easy. I like him more than quick for that reason. You notice how our defense doesn't sit behind Scrivens In case of rebounds and loose pucks. When our team is playing defense you notice how often they sit in the net or are behind quick to help keep the puck out, Scrivens is less aggressive and let's the defense cover the man more because of it. feel Scrivens is better for our defense because it's less responsibility. I'm not saying he's the better goalie, but his style seems to be making the defenses life much easier.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I think he makes saves look easy. I like him more than quick for that reason. You notice how our defense doesn't sit behind Scrivens In case of rebounds and loose pucks. When our team is playing defense you notice how often they sit in the net or are behind quick to help keep the puck out, Scrivens is less aggressive and let's the defense cover the man more because of it. feel Scrivens is better for our defense because it's less responsibility. I'm not saying he's the better goalie, but his style seems to be making the defenses life much easier.

You're talking about a very small sample size here. Let's see how he plays after a few bad games and fans are all over him.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

You're talking about a very small sample size here. Let's see how he playsthe ter a few bad games and fans are all over him.

I know definitely. It just the difference of playing style and positioning is very apparent between quick and Scrivens . But the other part about our defense is just my opinion.

 

[Nefarious]

Toffoli is getting some love on the mainboards.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1542753

 

[bmr]

It looks like Shore will need a bit of seasoning in the AHL before getting to the big club. He's not quite at the Vey/Toffoli/Pearson level.

What are you talking about?

The kids were ready but we had a full roster. A full roster of signed NHLers who the team had made commitments to and we can't just throw guys away without giving them a chance, especially after we have signed contracts with them. I know it is different in the video game world or in fantasy leagues but one of the key reasons that our franchise turned itself around was due to the fact that our GM started honoring his agreements or doing his best to do so.

Gone were the days of making a promise to a player and then burning them shortly there after. Take a look at the Flyers entire franchise do you think that the people who play there wouldn't leave without giving it a second thought if something better came along? Of course they would. That is the way we ran things forever around here and when we finally changed our teams philosophy our franchise turned itself around. Sure, there is more to it than that but you hear DL talk about accountability all the time and THAT is exactly what he holds himself to as well as the people who work for him and our players.

Besides, DL didn't wait for jack crap. How many losses do we have today? 50? 1000? No. We have 6 losses and are just over 20 games into the season so I can't see how anyone can even begin to complain with the amount of time taken for us to try a few different things.

We are a championship team and you don't go running around like a panicky teenager everytime things slip a little bit. You remain patient. You ask your staff and our your players what they think needs to happen and then you make the decisions required to help move things in a forward direction. Period.

DL looks like a genius because waiting on the farm is a wealth of talented kids. We called up 3 great young players all of whom have made an impact in their own ways and we still have 3 more at least who are at the ready if needed (Shore Andy Andy Kozun to name a few).

When we won our cup we called 3 rookies up. Last year we relied on a rookie to fill a very important position and this year so far we have called up 3 more and could do more if needed. DL is a freaking genius for having us so very deep on the farm that we can constantly rely on our depth and our system to to fill any areas of need rather than dealing away all of our depth on the hopes that we can bring in a bandaid like everyone else has to do.

Its cool not to see eye to eye on everything but I don't get where your coming from at all on this one. DL has us loaded for a championship run and ready to do so for the next couple of years at least. That was my point.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

It always feels like your wisdom falls on deaf ears. Year after year.

Not to me either I learned fast that if tg says something he should be listened to. Especially if hes talking about a prospect. I look for to reading his stuff and whenever i see his name is on the list I tend to goto his posts first.

 

[HookKing]

His offensive production and defensive shortcomings is equally rated. Why is it bad to limit Muzzin's defensive role? He will still get plenty of opportunities offensively.

No they aren't. Not even close. His offense has been better than Doughty's. You act like he is dumping the puck in his own net. People look at Muzzin and only look for mistakes -- missing how solid he's become.

 

[damacles1156]

No they aren't. Not even close. His offense has been better than Doughty's. You act like he is dumping the puck in his own net. People look at Muzzin and only look for mistakes -- missing how solid he's become.

I agree the Muzzin hate is overstated, the Kid is going to make mistakes.

But the Kings have already told him its ok to do so. They want Muzzin playing with confidence, and when he does, he is a solid top 4 Defender.

The kid has all the tools, his brain just needs to catch up. Right now Muzzin is the perfect partner for Drew.

Muzzin can at least skate with Drew, unlike the other Defensive partners.

 

[etherialone]

I agree the Muzzin hate is overrated, the Kid is going to make mistakes.

But the Kings have already told him him its ok to do so. They want Muzzin playing with confidence, and when he does, he is a solid top 4 Defender.

The kid has all the tools, his brain just needs to catch up.

Well said

I agree and as one of his early supporters I only want to say that I question Muzzin's ability to bring his IQ up to his abilities. That said he will continue to improve (imo) and will also develop a bit more. If he could find a magic wand that would bring his smarts up to his skills he would be a pretty special player.

 

[damacles1156]

What the. . . Linden Vey only has one shot on goal in seven games. Intresting stat; at least he's playing very solid. I'm guessing of the three forwards called up Pearson is going back down with Toffoli and Vey staying up with the big boys. Maybe trading Fraser soon as well?

That doesn't shock me, Vey is a play maker.

 

[KingLB]

I think he makes saves look easy. I like him more than quick for that reason. You notice how our defense doesn't sit behind Scrivens In case of rebounds and loose pucks. When our team is playing defense you notice how often they sit in the net or are behind quick to help keep the puck out, Scrivens is less aggressive and let's the defense cover the man more because of it. feel Scrivens is better for our defense because it's less responsibility. I'm not saying he's the better goalie, but his style seems to be making the defenses life much easier.

I have to wonder what you are watching. Scrivens is all over the place in goal just like Quick. Except Scrivens even goes for adventures outside the crease at least once a period.

That doesn't shock me, Vey is a play maker.

He is basically what many though Loki was going to be but better.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I have to wonder what you are watching. Scrivens is all over the place in goal just like Quick. Except Scrivens even goes for adventures outside the crease at least once a period.

They play similar styles, but Scrivens doesn't challenge every shot like Quick does. They play similar styles except Scrivens doesn't challenge the puck carrier. He plays a sloppy style but it is more conservative. You have to understand that Quick challenges every shot no matter the location which makes him vulnerable to rebounds.

Scrivens doesn't challenge every shot, hence making defense easier for defenseman.

 

[HookKing]

Well said

I agree and as one of his early supporters I only want to say that I question Muzzin's ability to bring his IQ up to his abilities. That said he will continue to improve (imo) and will also develop a bit more. If he could find a magic wand that would bring his smarts up to his skills he would be a pretty special player.

He's improved a lot already this year. I'm not seeing the dubious passes he was guilty of before his early season benching. He is allowing Doughty to be a much better player. He is tied for 4th in even strength points (that seems to be hugely underrated or gone unnoticed here) and played 5 fewer games than most and he has not had a minus game since game 3.

Considering the fact he was a 5th round draft pick and doesn't yet have a full season of regular games (74) under his belt and is playing on the top d-pair -- I don't think that's too bad at all.

Nevertheless, he has plenty of room to improve. He doesn't kill penalties, gets knocked off his feet (although he appears almost indestructible) too much and he takes too many penalties.

I cannot believe there are posters that would actually rather have Hickey.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

It's obvious at this point that Muzzin only plays well when paired with Drew and Sutter loves him. Last year, that pairing handcuffed Drew and took away from his offense. That's not the case anymore. Doughty has grown because of that last year and is proving that he no longer needs to be paired with a defensive backstop in order to be dynamic in all zones. He's legitimately a top 5 defensive defenseman now as well as being able to dominate when he has the puck.

I think they did okay last year. I recall that when Muzzin and Doughty were paired together, they both went on productive runs and Muzzin was named rookie of the month for March. I don't have the numbers, but I believe that is was shortly thereafter we had the acquisition of Regehr, who became Doughty's partner, and we need not say more on the subject. It was bad.

When comparing the sorts of mistakes that Regehr and Muzzin make, I would say that Muzzin's are by far more favorable, particularly against the superior competition they face alongside Doughty. Muzzin is younger and faster, there's a chance he can recover and contain his error, or get himself out of trouble. If Regehr makes a mistake, its usually all over. And at the other end, Muzzin allows Doughty some space on the point to get the occasional shot off. This simply does not happen when Regehr is out there, the other teams practically begs us to keep the puck on Regehr's stick by smothering Doughty.

Muzzin's success with Doughty is why a couple weeks back in our flurry of trade specualtions I spitballed names like Brian Campbell to play with him. At the end of the day, all we really need was somebody who !) isn't a total liability in certain situations in his own end and 2) who can open the game up for himself and Doughty at the other. I really hope the answer continues to be Muzzin, as he should be very affordable for the next few years.

 

[damacles1156]

I think they did okay last year. I recall that when Muzzin and Doughty were paired together, they both went on productive runs and Muzzin was named rookie of the month for March. I don't have the numbers, but I believe that is was shortly thereafter we had the acquisition of Regehr, who became Doughty's partner, and we need not say more on the subject. It was bad.

When comparing the sorts of mistakes that Regehr and Muzzin make, I would say that Muzzin's are by far more favorable, particularly against the superior competition they face alongside Doughty. Muzzin is younger and faster, there's a chance he can recover and contain his error, or get himself out of trouble. If Regehr makes a mistake, its usually all over. And at the other end, Muzzin allows Doughty some space on the point to get the occasional shot off. This simply does not happen when Regehr is out there, the other teams practically begs us to keep the puck on Regehr's stick by smothering Doughty.

Muzzin's success with Doughty is why a couple weeks back in our flurry of trade specualtions I spitballed names like Brian Campbell to play with him. At the end of the day, all we really need was somebody who !) isn't a total liability in certain situations in his own end and 2) who can open the game up for himself and Doughty at the other. I really hope the answer continues to be Muzzin, as he should be very affordable for the next few years.

This is a good point....

Teams have to cover Muzzin, they have too. The kid has a dangerous/heavy shot.

Also Muzzin can skate very well.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

He can skate well. I just hope he develops better core strength because his balance is terrible for a guy his height. He gets knocked down way too easy.

 

[etherialone]

He's improved a lot already this year. I'm not seeing the dubious passes he was guilty of before his early season benching. He is allowing Doughty to be a much better player. He is tied for 4th in even strength points (that seems to be hugely underrated or gone unnoticed here) and played 5 fewer games than most and he has not had a minus game since game 3.

Considering the fact he was a 5th round draft pick and doesn't yet have a full season of regular games (74) under his belt and is playing on the top d-pair -- I don't think that's too bad at all.

Nevertheless, he has plenty of room to improve. He doesn't kill penalties, gets knocked off his feet (although he appears almost indestructible) too much and he takes too many penalties.

I cannot believe there are posters that would actually rather have Hickey.

I think there were about 4 or 5 posters here (or right about there) who agreed with my assessment of what Muzzin was capable of being in the NHL and he is doing right about exactly what I thought he would be.

That said, Hickey is the better of the two in his own end. Of the two I would rather have Muzzin hands down but Hickey is a smarter/better dman when it comes to making reads in his own zone.

As for where Muzzin was picked (or how we came by him) I think it is sort of irrelevant (no offence intended by the way). We knew that he had NHL potential and went after him. He has come a long way and like I said, since I was capable of spending a ton of time watching his development I had a good read on who he would become (or who I thought he would become) at the NHL level.

The thing is that none of that matters once he gets to the NHL. Where a player was drafted or how they made their way to the NHL just doesn't make a bit of difference once they get to the show. From the moment they step onto NHL ice the only thing that matters is what they do from that point on.

Jake is a good kid and has a good head on his shoulders. He has proven my faith in him to have been correct (faith may not be the right word but it will have to do) for these past few years in that he should become an NHL player.

Since he has arrived he has done a good job and is slowly developing a good NHL caliber skillset. I like his game and see allot of potential in him still but he simply hasn't shown me anything yet that has me believing that he will become more than a good two way Dman who can play with a little grit, doesn't avoid contact and has a cannon of a shot.

He hasn't shown however that he is going to be more than that and to me that is just fine. I like what he brings to the table and know that with time and experience that he will be a solid two way Dman for us for a number of years.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I think there were about 4 or 5 posters here (or right about there) who agreed with my assessment of what Muzzin was capable of being in the NHL and he is doing right about exactly what I thought he would be.

Wow, who are those lucky 4 or 5 posters who were in agreement with you, great Tonnelli?

 

[KingLB]

Of course the Ducks are gonna get TB on the second of a traveling from SJ back2back...