GDT: Game 22: Kings @ Coyotes - 7PM - FSAZ

[kihekah19*]

I agree. I thought we played a fairly good game, but DT was not happy at all. He was right when he said he we had to many turnovers. Duclair and Domi's resulted in goals, and I think Dvo's did too. But overall, I see many positives with this team. On most nights we are giving the other team all they can handle.

Correct, Dvo's was too - the three D's of destruction. We could add a fourth in Doan, I was absolutely livid that he had him out there at the end, would have made sense if he could still win on the boards, but he can't.

Like DT, I wasn't pleased with losing a very winnable game either. I saw improvement, I was entertained, but none too pleased giving a game away.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Watching that Tippett presser, I don't envision a panic trade or anything like that. He is simply saying that players need to be able to do their jobs consistently. Almost all of the Kings goals occurred b/c we kept giving the Kings opportunities to stay in our zone.

Murphy had some very poor passes from our defensive end. Trying to reverse the puck, he had a few that just didn't have enough zip on them and gave the Kings a chance to interrupt our play. I believe it was the faceoff after the Kings first goal - puck gets played back to our D, we skate back into our zone to open up some ice, and we struggled to make a simple cross-ice pass.

Anyhow, all that Tippett is saying is that if we have to bring someone up from the AHL, we'll do that to put pressure on the players to start performing the way that they know how. If we worked on these things in practice, then it should carry over to the game. The fact that it is not happening tells me that the coaching staff has correctly identified areas that need work, our players are just not doing enough of that word that begins with E.

 

[kihekah19*]

Right, so when we played the Sharks the other night (or other teams for that matter), are those teams simply cramping the neutral zone and forcing our best option to dump the puck in? That kind of speaks to your second point. If other teams cram the neutral zone, our speed can be somewhat neutralized and we have to figure out other ways to use our speed.

Like I said - if we only choose dump and chase as some people assume that we do, then that would be reflected in the rear view mirror. Maybe this was the one game where Tippett called up Sutter and told him how our forum was complaining about dump and chase and that he needed LA to play a different defensive gameplan so we could all rest easy knowing that we don't dump and chase all the time.

We got some good possession on dump and chase early. Got some extended possession time and a few good shots out of it. If we are more consistent with that, more posters might be happy, but that also comes down to the players executing better.

Yessir, read and react. Two words say it all, but sadly many just want to complain.

 

[Jakey53]

Didn't see the game but what he's saying doesn't make sense. When he broke down the periods it sounded pretty good for how most of the games have gone. Sounded like the 2nd was good, 1st and 3rd were average, some good some bad. But then overall the game is garbage?

And his praise for Rieder and saying other guys should be like him also doesn't make sense. He's a fast two way player. You need speed in the NHL now... Who isn't fast and isn't good in both ends? The guys who aren't fast and aren't great in both ends are who? Vrbata? Avg D, slow... Doan? Age is showing it's effects in all areas of his game. Doesn't make any sense.

And if the young guys had mistakes, what do you expect? You know that's gonna happen when you have this many young players on the team. There are going to be losses due to turnovers.

For the zone entries, what went wrong? Were they dumping it in a lot tonight, or were they trying to carry it in?

If you had watched the game and saw the way Rieder played you would understand his comments. The way it sounds was the players practiced a certain play and did not execute it in the game. I didn't think we played that bad, except for turnovers that resulted in goals. Duke has gone from hustle, to snake bitten to "I don't give a s---. I would not be surprised if he sits next game and they bring up someone.

 

[cobra427]

If you had watched the game and saw the way Rieder played you would understand his comments. The way it sounds was the players practiced a certain play and did not execute it in the game. I didn't think we played that bad, except for turnovers that resulted in goals. Duke has gone from hustle, to snake bitten to "I don't give a s---. I would not be surprised if he sits next game and they bring up someone.

Agreed. Hockey at this level is a game of mistakes. We have key turnovers and missed coverage again. Overall our play was prettty good. Guys that make 5 flashy plays is entertaining but their one mistake kills us. It is simple plays that killed us. You can't make mistakes, that was the difference. Dump and chase, carry the puck in, is all situational, it's the mistakes.

 

[Jakey53]

Yessir, read and react. Two words say it all, but sadly many just want to complain.

Yup

Agreed. Hockey at this level is a game of mistakes. We have key turnovers and missed coverage again. Overall our play was prettty good. Guys that make 5 flashy plays is entertaining but their one mistake kills us. It is simple plays that killed us. You can't make mistakes, that was the difference. Dump and chase, carry the puck in, is all situational, it's the mistakes.

This.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

This loss had nothing to do with a "boring" style of play. It had everything to do with give aways, 3 in our own zone, one in their zone. Stupid mistakes. We weren't outplayed. We just gave them the game.

I think that it would help our game in the short term to throttle down Smith. Tell him not to play the puck except in obvious plays to settle the puck for our D to carry it out of the zone. The young team has trouble anticipating what Smith is going to do with the puck and it causes turnover after turnover, game after game. For at least the next 10 games or so, he needs to be a "stay at home" goalie.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Correct. I did a XX last night and did a rough count on the dumps vs skate/pass and it was 15/37, and many of the dumps was a line change or the D, especially Murph, Stone and Schenn just shooting it in. Not sure if XX was into the kool aid when he did his count, but like you said you take what the D gives us.

That's unfair to say. It is very clear that not everything is the same, and San Jose is a different team than LA. We definitely did dump and chase at a higher frequency in the Sharks game vs the LA game.

I am actually more worried about results accurately reflecting what happened. Some people may have a different idea of what to consider a dump and chase.

If Domi skates the puck in the zone, but tries to chip it around a defender so that he can show outside speed to maintain possession, I don't necessarily consider that dump and chase b/c he is controlling the chip with the intention of getting to the puck himself in a one-on-one move. If he were chipping it forward with the intent of having a different player play the puck, then it would be considered dump and chase. When analyzing, I added some notes regarding why I thought this play was a controlled or uncontrolled entry.

Will post my Excel notes later.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Both Dvorak and Duke -3 on the night so it is pretty clear that DT was targetting them.

I see this happening:

Dvorak: as soon as Toronto places Holland on waivers/or is accepting near "futures" in a trade, he comes here. Dvorak then is sent to Tucson for a longer stretch that what we have seen so far

Duclair: he won't be traded in a rush but the Coyotes will continue to convey the message, via the press, that he is available.

In the meantime, and despite a rather dynamic game offensively last night, his mistakes have been too costly so he will get scratched very soon.

Then he either picks his game up and his outlook with the team is better long term; or his traded later in the year/summer

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I really think that Duclair's problems are all Duclair, not coaching. Whatever is going on, he better get it sorted fast or he will be just another one of those guys who could never put it all together to have a good career.

 

[Jakey53]

That's unfair to say. It is very clear that not everything is the same, and San Jose is a different team than LA. We definitely did dump and chase at a higher frequency in the Sharks game vs the LA game.

I am actually more worried about results accurately reflecting what happened. Some people may have a different idea of what to consider a dump and chase.

If Domi skates the puck in the zone, but tries to chip it around a defender so that he can show outside speed to maintain possession, I don't necessarily consider that dump and chase b/c he is controlling the chip with the intention of getting to the puck himself in a one-on-one move. If he were chipping it forward with the intent of having a different player play the puck, then it would be considered dump and chase. When analyzing, I added some notes regarding why I thought this play was a controlled or uncontrolled entry.

Will post my Excel notes later.

I agree, and like Cobra said every situation is different. I just wanted to prove that we are not just and dump and chase team like most were saying yesterday.

 

[Jakey53]

I really think that Duclair's problems are all Duclair, not coaching. Whatever is going on, he better get it sorted fast or he will be just another one of those guys who could never put it all together to have a good career.

Like hbk said, he is feeling sorry for himself instead of giving that second effort.

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

Both Dvorak and Duke -3 on the night so it is pretty clear that DT was targetting them.

I see this happening:

Dvorak: as soon as Toronto places Holland on waivers/or is accepting near "futures" in a trade, he comes here. Dvorak then is sent to Tucson for a longer stretch that what we have seen so far

That drop pass by Dvo was a mistake. He is a kid and protecting him and developing him should imply that he isn't sent down because of it - unless it is to train the bad junior habits out of him. Personally I like the drop pass play but you need that chemistry to know the following D is going to be where you expect. I think Tipp wanted a dump in.

I agree though that Dvo will sit or go to Tuscon. If the message to him is that the drop pass is not part of our system, then I'm ok with that action.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

We're all focusing on turnovers and mistakes - one that I haven't seen mentioned (and maybe I just didn't see it upthread because I didn't bother to read through it ) was on the tickey-tack three-on-two goal. It was glaringly obvious that the defensemen were completely tied up in knots on their back coverage. Stone and Goligoski got crossed up backchecking and both ended up on the wrong sides - and when they realized it, they each backed up against each other in the slot, nearly colliding, which gave all the open ice to the Kings' attackers.

Of all the stupid plays in that game, it was the one that made me shake my head the angriest (and that includes Smitty's heroic tableau pose that led to the third[?] goal). It was crystal clear that our defensemen were totally and completely flummoxed by the play. I complain a lot about systems but that was TERRIBLE execution, and these guys are supposed to be our veterans on the back end.

They played flustrated [sic]. No wonder Tippett was upset.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Kings Goal #1 - Turnover Dvo/Goose
Kings Goal #2 - Shenn out of position
Kings Goal #3 - Duke turnover/Schmitty misplay
Kings Goal #4 - Domi turnover.

Coyote mistakes directly leading to LA goals = 4
LA generated goals = 0

 

[Ebb]

Kings Goal #1 - Turnover Dvo/Goose
Kings Goal #2 - Shenn out of position
Kings Goal #3 - Duke turnover/Schmitty misplay
Kings Goal #4 - Domi turnover.

Coyote mistakes directly leading to LA goals = 4
LA generated goals = 0

So, here are the recommended Tippetesque repercussions...

Dvo to Tucson; Goose gets more minutes
Schenn scratched for Connauton
Duke scratched - dress Chychrun
Domi demoted to 3rd​

 

[AZviaNJ]

So, here are the recommended Tippetesque repercussions...

Dvo to Tucson; Goose gets more minutes
Schenn scratched for Connauton
Duke scratched - dress Chychrun
Domi demoted to 3rd​

Or, it's time to sit the kids and reunite the band. New 2nd line:

Klink/Chippy/Moss
#HockeyTheHardWay

Maybe the 2.0 version is Fournier/Gaudet/Samuelsson

 

[kihekah19*]

That drop pass by Dvo was a mistake.

It was not a mistake, it was a great play that was executed poorly. A drop pass is a drop and thus carries no momentum, it's basic fundamentals that are drilled into every lad who's ever laced 'em up. The passer is not to guess the path of the receiver, it is up to the receiver to come to the drop.

 

[TheLegend]

We're all focusing on turnovers and mistakes - one that I haven't seen mentioned (and maybe I just didn't see it upthread because I didn't bother to read through it ) was on the tickey-tack three-on-two goal. It was glaringly obvious that the defensemen were completely tied up in knots on their back coverage. Stone and Goligoski got crossed up backchecking and both ended up on the wrong sides - and when they realized it, they each backed up against each other in the slot, nearly colliding, which gave all the open ice to the Kings' attackers.

Of all the stupid plays in that game, it was the one that made me shake my head the angriest (and that includes Smitty's heroic tableau pose that led to the third[?] goal). It was crystal clear that our defensemen were totally and completely flummoxed by the play. I complain a lot about systems but that was TERRIBLE execution, and these guys are supposed to be our veterans on the back end.

They played flustrated [sic]. No wonder Tippett was upset.

You left out Chychrun leaving Nolan all alone in front of the net to get his second one.

BTW.... I think Smith thought he had the puck locked up. It doesn't make sense he would go posing knowing the puck went out in front. Many goalies do exactly what Smith did when a shot comes directly at the midsection.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

If you had watched the game and saw the way Rieder played you would understand his comments. The way it sounds was the players practiced a certain play and did not execute it in the game. I didn't think we played that bad, except for turnovers that resulted in goals. Duke has gone from hustle, to snake bitten to "I don't give a s---. I would not be surprised if he sits next game and they bring up someone.

What were they doing in the game? Cause if it was dump and chase against LA then Tipp should be annoyed, if they were trying to carry the puck in then I think the players were in the right. LA's a big team, our team for the most part isn't.

Kings Goal #1 - Turnover Dvo/Goose
Kings Goal #2 - Shenn out of position
Kings Goal #3 - Duke turnover/Schmitty misplay
Kings Goal #4 - Domi turnover.

Coyote mistakes directly leading to LA goals = 4
LA generated goals = 0

3/4 are young players doing young player things. 2/4 with an assist from someone else. Use it as a learning experience and move on.

 

[BUX7PHX]

What were they doing in the game? Cause if it was dump and chase against LA then Tipp should be annoyed, if they were trying to carry the puck in then I think the players were in the right. LA's a big team, our team for the most part isn't.



3/4 are young players doing young player things. 2/4 with an assist from someone else. Use it as a learning experience and move on.

We still had dump and chase in the repertoire, but weren't using it as a sole means to develop the offense. We actually had quite a few zone entries from just skating in and/or passing the puck to a teammate with good timing for a controlled zone entry. When I get home from work, I will look at the tape one more time to make sure I captured all of entries and let you make your conclusions (with the exception of about 12 minutes of the first period - I got home later than expected from work and set it to record immediately)

 

[_Del_]

3/4 are young players doing young player things. 2/4 with an assist from someone else. Use it as a learning experience and move on.

Nah, the only way to make them NHL players is to scratch or demote them. Wouldn't want them to get into a groove or gain confidence. Got to get some players in here that can actually get the job done instead. That's what all successful rebuilds do.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

We still had dump and chase in the repertoire, but weren't using it as a sole means to develop the offense. We actually had quite a few zone entries from just skating in and/or passing the puck to a teammate with good timing for a controlled zone entry. When I get home from work, I will look at the tape one more time to make sure I captured all of entries and let you make your conclusions (with the exception of about 12 minutes of the first period - I got home later than expected from work and set it to record immediately)

Sounds good!

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

It was not a mistake, it was a great play that was executed poorly. A drop pass is a drop and thus carries no momentum, it's basic fundamentals that are drilled into every lad who's ever laced 'em up. The passer is not to guess the path of the receiver, it is up to the receiver to come to the drop.

I like the drop pass but disagree with your atatement. Unless the D have a system to go high slot on entering the zone and thats where Dvo KNOWS they will be. Otherwise its a chemistry/finesse play when executed well.

 

[kihekah19*]

I like the drop pass but disagree with your atatement. Unless the D have a system to go high slot on entering the zone and thats where Dvo KNOWS they will be. Otherwise its a chemistry/finesse play when executed well.

There's no excuse. A backward pass would have gone between the point men..... Dvorak knew Gologoski was coming and instead of dropping, he threw it back. So he either wanted to pass between the two (doubtful), or he simply screwed up. I was livid the moment it happened and for good reason.