Game #21: KINGS @ RANGERS, 11/17/’13 - Regulation SHUT OUT 1-0 Victory !!!

[Omni Owl]

I'm all for the Ducks/Kings rivalry, but they're hardly losers. I guess it depends on what moment in time one chooses to peak. The Ducks pushed the Kings to win a cup in my eyes and vice versa.

 

[kingsfan]

The amount of hate the Kings get is amazing. I love it. Every post brings a smile to my face.

Me too. And really, why? Outside of Brown, we don't have anyone that people rally hate on (besides Flyers fans towards Richie and Carts). They just hate a winner, which is sad really. I mean Detroit's been a winner for two+ decades now, I actually cheer for them more now, just because it's remarkable what they have done for so long. I hate teams that don't play hockey the way I think it should be played, like Vancouver who flop all over the ice like a harpooned seal (though apparently they have been better since Torts came on board).

Regardless, let the haters hate. Your life must suck to hate someone just because they are successful. Talk about bitter people.

New playoff format. Though I doubt the discrepancy will maintain the level it is at, this particular scenario unveils the flaws of the new format. If you have one division with highly dominant teams, there are going to be less qualified teams, point wise, getting into the post season which the format was designed to combat.

Every scenario has its flaws. Remember all the years of Carolina or Washington getting a top three seed for winning their division despite barely having enough points to even qualify for the 8th seed?

win or not, kings have major scoring issues. in the last 2 games, the kids have done all the scoring, which means without them, we would have lost both games.

it won't take long before Sutter's system stifles them as well. What the hell is it with Kings systems? TM and DS are both running into the same issue. Yet once our players leave, they become scoring machines. I don't get that.

The last two games have been (a) the second of a back to back (b) the third game in four nights (c) both with our backup in net, so likely a bit more of a defensive mindset (d) on the road.

Additionally, I frankly don't care how much it stiffles anyone as long as we keep winning. 14-6-1 this season. 65-35-13 since Sutter came in. I hope we get stiffled like that forever.

Also, the whole 'they do better after they leave' stuff has been debunked. Moulson and Purcell are the primary reasons for that rumour and all teams have guys that leave and do well elsewhere. Many Kings have left to go elsewhere and done the same, less or even nothing at all, just ask guys like Patrick O'Sullivan.

 

[cyclones22]

I'm all for the Ducks/Kings rivalry, but they're hardly losers. I guess it depends on what moment in time one chooses to peak. The Ducks pushed the Kings to win a cup in my eyes and vice versa.

This is our forum. If we can't trash talk them here, where can we do it? They can have my begrudging respect on the main board. Here, they can suck it.

 

[Quattro]

Hate is how you know you've arrived. Nobody bothers hating ****** teams.

That's not necessarily true, people have hated the Leafs for years

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

Also, the whole 'they do better after they leave' stuff has been debunked. Moulson and Purcell are the primary reasons for that rumour and all teams have guys that leave and do well elsewhere. Many Kings have left to go elsewhere and done the same, less or even nothing at all, just ask guys like Patrick O'Sullivan.

how has that been "debunked"? Look at Simmonds. Even on an off year like this year, he's set to outperform his best year in LA by a long shot. Richardson is on pace to have a career year. Brian Boyle also found himself producing far more after he left as well. Come on, you have to be blind to not see that players increase an abnormal amount of points once they leave.

Not saying they all become stars, but something about our system stifles our players. People leave, they generate more points. People come in, initially, they generate tons of points... until the system sucks the life out of them. Voynov had his highest point/game percentage his first year and has been declining every year after that. Even Doughty has a similar progression. It makes me wonder how much long before it infects the kid line with the same droughts that our veterans have. The top teams in our conference all have over 10 goals more than us. There's a big separation between the big dogs and us. There should be warning bells ringing, not "winning is awesome" type feeling.

 

[damacles1156]

how has that been "debunked"? Look at Simmonds. Even on an off year like this year, he's set to outperform his best year in LA by a long shot. Richardson is on pace to have a career year. Brian Boyle also found himself producing far more after he left as well. Come on, you have to be blind to not see that players increase an abnormal amount of points once they leave.

Not saying they all become stars, but something about our system stifles our players. People leave, they generate more points. People come in, initially, they generate tons of points... until the system sucks the life out of them. Voynov had his highest point/game percentage his first year and has been declining every year after that. Even Doughty has a similar progression. It makes me wonder how much long before it infects the kid line with the same droughts that our veterans have. The top teams in our conference all have over 10 goals more than us. There's a big separation between the big dogs and us. There should be warning bells ringing, not "winning is awesome" type feeling.

It's called learning the game at an NHL level.

Does any player(Lombardi had a choice on) that has left besides Penner have a Stanley Cup ?

The Kings play a certain way, for a reason. Carter scores just fine, Richards/Kopitar( more goals please Kopi) as well. Williams/Brown pretty consistent over the last five years.

Doughty is never going to score like Karrlson, but Drew is a much better defender.

Simmonds/Richardson were productive players for the Kings.

No idea why someone would say the Kings stifled them.

Brain Boyle has been an offensive black hole outside of one season for the Rangers(that was two years ago).

Purcell/Moulson are the only guys that have produced substantially outside the Kings system.

Moulson is allowed to play to his strengths were he has been, Purcell(while skilled himself) plays with two of the best players on the planet(for a good amount of minutes each game).

 

[takk]

What is separating us from those "big dogs" is our postseason play. Just depending on scoring goals ain't gonna help you much in May/June. Personally I'm a bit worried as well about upcoming games against our conference but as long as Kings keep finding ways to get the wins there is no need to panic etc.

I'd be more worried if we score more and win games like 6-5, 5-4.

 

[bmr]

Yeah, but does scoring more goals in the regular season get you a Stanley Cup? The year we won the cup, I remember being so worried about teams like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh..but what ultimately happened?

I still think we have the right coach and the right system built for Stanley Cup runs. It starts with defense, always has. With Voynov, I think he just took a step back after being in a contract year. He didn't look good to start the season. That has nothing to do with the team structure.

Kopitar gets about the same points every year like clockwork, and Richards is pretty spot on to where he should be. Carter is also pretty much in line.

When some of these players move on, maybe they take more of an active role in the team or maybe they click better with the actual offensive schemes. Actually, I think that's probably why Frattin is having such a hard time.

how has that been "debunked"? Look at Simmonds. Even on an off year like this year, he's set to outperform his best year in LA by a long shot. Richardson is on pace to have a career year. Brian Boyle also found himself producing far more after he left as well. Come on, you have to be blind to not see that players increase an abnormal amount of points once they leave.

Not saying they all become stars, but something about our system stifles our players. People leave, they generate more points. People come in, initially, they generate tons of points... until the system sucks the life out of them. Voynov had his highest point/game percentage his first year and has been declining every year after that. Even Doughty has a similar progression. It makes me wonder how much long before it infects the kid line with the same droughts that our veterans have. The top teams in our conference all have over 10 goals more than us. There's a big separation between the big dogs and us. There should be warning bells ringing, not "winning is awesome" type feeling.

 

[deeshamrock]

Scrivens post game when a reporter complimented him on his 2nd SO.

"You guys always want to talk to the goalies, but there are big blocked shots, great clears on the penalty kill, big goals," Scrivens said. "It kind of [stinks], because we get all the credit for it. But they [shutouts] are team accomplishments."


Team guy, gotta love that. And the PK has been great lately, something like 11 straight kills. That's such a game breaker, given the games they've lost earlier this year to PP goals.

Keep the good work up boys....

 

[tsanuri]

Yeah, but does scoring more goals in the regular season get you a Stanley Cup? The year we won the cup, I remember being so worried about teams like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh..but what ultimately happened?

I still think we have the right coach and the right system built for Stanley Cup runs. It starts with defense, always has. With Voynov, I think he just took a step back after being in a contract year. He didn't look good to start the season. That has nothing to do with the team structure.

Kopitar gets about the same points every year like clockwork, and Richards is pretty spot on to where he should be. Carter is also pretty much in line.

When some of these players move on, maybe they take more of an active role in the team or maybe they click better with the actual offensive schemes. Actually, I think that's probably why Frattin is having such a hard time.

Agree with everything here but even Voynov has started to turn things around these last few games.

 

[bmr]

Good point, dee. No great team has a bad apple, especially after difficult losses. Quick always shoulders the blame and shields his teammates. Guys respect and play harder for that. I'm really happy we have this guy...

Scrivens post game when a reporter complimented him on his 2nd SO.

"You guys always want to talk to the goalies, but there are big blocked shots, great clears on the penalty kill, big goals," Scrivens said. "It kind of [stinks], because we get all the credit for it. But they [shutouts] are team accomplishments."


Team guy, gotta love that. And the PK has been great lately, something like 11 straight kills. That's such a game breaker, given the games they've lost earlier this year to PP goals.

Keep the good work up boys....

 

[KingsFan7824]

The top teams in our conference all have over 10 goals more than us. There's a big separation between the big dogs and us. There should be warning bells ringing, not "winning is awesome" type feeling.

That's what you see when you look at the standings?

 

[MsMeow]

I was driving back to Vancouver and realized I'd miss at least the entire first period but figured it would be 0-0 after 1 and it was! Managed to catch the rest when I got to my hotel. What a great road trip, really, what more could you ask for? I know the east is weak as all hell but with all the injuries, the boys did great!

 

[deeshamrock]

Yeah, but does scoring more goals in the regular season get you a Stanley Cup? The year we won the cup, I remember being so worried about teams like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh..but what ultimately happened?

I still think we have the right coach and the right system built for Stanley Cup runs. It starts with defense, always has. With Voynov, I think he just took a step back after being in a contract year. He didn't look good to start the season. That has nothing to do with the team structure.
.

YOu shouldn't have worried, there is nothing to fear from a team that gives up that many goals. Scoring 5 goals because you give up 4 the other way does not a champion make.
They averaged close to 3 goals per game against that year and that got worse in the playoffs giving up 29 goals in 7 games.
They were a threat to nobody. I had friends here in phily who practically had a chair lined up on Broad St for a Cup parade during that awful first playoff round. I tried to logically explain why they weren't a contender and would be exposed by the Devils, because goaltending and Defense (including the forwards) is what wins when it counts. They had neither. And that was exposed badly by the Devils, who cut off the center ice area nad forced the Flyers to the boards, where they lost every battle, because most of their forwards can't win those and are inept in their own end.
Also, I challenged them to guess how many games the Flyers won that year allowing 2 goals or less. Because if you can't win a 2-1 game, and understand why that's important, you'll never be a contender.
That year, in 82 games, they only won 1 game where they allowed 2 or less and that's why they are and remain pretenders not contenders.

VOynov is fine, and it's got nothing to do with it being a post contract year. He's only played in about 120 RG games, so technically, that's his sophomore year and a lot of players go thru a sophomore slump. He'll get it together as the year goes on and be fine in the playoffs.

 

[etherialone]

It's called learning the game at an NHL level.

Does any player(Lombardi had a choice on) that has left besides Penner have a Stanley Cup ?

The Kings play a certain way, for a reason. Carter scores just fine, Richards/Kopitar( more goals please Kopi) as well. Williams/Brown pretty consistent over the last five years.

Doughty is never going to score like Karrlson, but Drew is a much better defender.

Simmonds/Richardson were productive players for the Kings.

No idea why someone would say the Kings stifled them.

Brain Boyle has been an offensive black hole outside of one season for the Rangers(that was two years ago).

Purcell/Moulson are the only guys that have produced substantially outside the Kings system.

Moulson is allowed to play to his strengths were he has been, Purcell(while skilled himself) plays with two of the best players on the planet(for a good amount of minutes each game).

This is pretty much what I wanted to say also.

For those who see our players blossoming after they leave the Kings you might also consider that while they are here we demand our player play a complete game and be very responsible defencively. When they leave LA they have less restrictions on them allowing them to produce more offencively which looks nice and shiney on paper but ta bigger reason for their success is that they play well all around too.

Think of it this way, the players we produce have been taught how to play the game better so *any* player that goes through our system or plays for our team for a period of time becomes a better player all the way around.

It is a compliment to how well we develop players to how well they play when they leave here.

 

[kingsfan]

how has that been "debunked"? Look at Simmonds. Even on an off year like this year, he's set to outperform his best year in LA by a long shot. Richardson is on pace to have a career year. Brian Boyle also found himself producing far more after he left as well. Come on, you have to be blind to not see that players increase an abnormal amount of points once they leave.

Not saying they all become stars, but something about our system stifles our players. People leave, they generate more points. People come in, initially, they generate tons of points... until the system sucks the life out of them. Voynov had his highest point/game percentage his first year and has been declining every year after that. Even Doughty has a similar progression. It makes me wonder how much long before it infects the kid line with the same droughts that our veterans have. The top teams in our conference all have over 10 goals more than us. There's a big separation between the big dogs and us. There should be warning bells ringing, not "winning is awesome" type feeling.

Ok, let's break it on down.

First, your examples. Simmonds. He was 22 when he was traded. Did it not seem at all possible he might, just might, be still developing and improving? That maybe he might not have peaked yet? It doesn't surprise me he had a better few seasons since he left, he's only now entering his prime.

Richardson. Had three goals in four games. He's had two goals in the other 18 games this season. So what, he got hot for a week. Even Kyle Clifford has done that. Also, how did Richardson do before LA? It's not like the guy lit it up in Colorado either. Let's see how he does over a full season before we label him a huge success post-LA.

Brian Boyle. Basically the same as Richardson, since I assume you are talking about his 2010-2011 season. Did you even look up his stats that year? He was hot (by his standards) for the first half of that season. In his first 53 games, he had 18 goals and 28 points. After that, 29 games, three goals and seven points. And since then he's scored 14 goals and 37 points in 140 games. One goal in 20 games this year. Hardly stellar stuff.

And frankly, if you need to use guys like Richardson -who has played just 22 games since leaving LA- and Brian 'mostly 4th line' Boyle as key examples, that alone shows how weak the argument is. For every Moulson, Purcell, and Simmonds, there is multiple O'Sullivan's, Frolov's and Kyle Quincey's.
Didn't people think Jack Johnson was going to light it up in Columbus, getting out from under our stiffling system?
Outside of one season, how has Mike Cammelleri looked since leaving LA? And even that one season basically matches his best season in LA as well. Same can be said of Lubomir Visnovsky.
Andrei Loktionov? Weren't we holding his offense back?
Alexei Ponikarovsky, how's the KHL treating you?
Marco Sturm only managed four goals in 17 games for LA? Well he only managed four goals the rest of his career after leaving.
Hell, even Ryan Smyth was a 20 goal guy here. He's likely not even a 20 point guy on those high-flying Oilers.

Frankly, even if we were stiffling these guys, which I don't think we are, our goal is to win, not be the 1980's Oilers.

Also, one last point. Of all the examples of guys doing well since leaving the Kings, all but one went to the East, the one being Richardson and we are only talking about 22 games with him. You don't think changing to the more open East has something to do with better numbers?

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Score 7 goals on a 4 game road trip and win 3 of 4 games and take 7 of 8 points. Everyone is happy. Lose those games and we get to hear about DL's lack of drafting and developing a left wing and trading Bernier for some inept grinder and a lacky goalie. Funny how the world works.. errr. some of your minds.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

I'm making lots of sense...

Thanks for posting this. I was going to post something like that but I didn't have the energy.

 

[Dropdapuck]

Also, the whole 'they do better after they leave' stuff has been debunked. Moulson and Purcell are the primary reasons for that rumour

I wouldn't want either of those on the Kings. Much of their shiny value is from playing in the east. Who would really want to go to playoff war with Moulson as the 2 left wing? Does anyone want Purcell playing on the third wing?

 

[Asheru]

Where are all the Regehr haters now? A week ago he was the worst defenseman in the NHL. With Greene out, I'd hate to think where we'd be without him...

I'm not sure others really want to hear any critiques after a win, but I'll bite.

Regehr was not cutting it as a top pairing defenseman, and played horribly early in the season when he was there. He was bumped off the top pairing because of his play. Now Jake Muzzin is sent out for more draws in the defensive zone than he is, and we all know Muzzin is still a work in progress. Fortunately Muzzin is stepping up.

Now that Regehr has an easier job, he is getting praise for looking better. That's not a coincidence. But he's not really helping the possession game, either.

He is like a slower Matt Greene. Good for filling in on the PK, but I wouldn't want to see Greene on the second pairing long term either.

So overall I would still be very happy if the Kings picked up an improvement on D. Sorry. I'm not a doom and gloom person, as hopefully you can see from my other posts, just see an area where we could get better. Every team has them, even contenders.

 

[Muzzinga]

Where are all the Regehr haters now? A week ago he was the worst defenseman in the NHL. With Greene out, I'd hate to think where we'd be without him...

He's still our worst defenceman. As people have said since the day we got him, he is essentially an older and slower Matt Greene. He was then thrown into the fire and given top pairing minutes with Doughty since being here, and obviously got massively exposed.

It took a while, but now that Sutter gives him softer minutes, he obviously looks better and plays better with them. We would still be better off if Greene just replaces him when he returns, but that won't happen and Martinez will sit obviously

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Additionally, I frankly don't care how much it stiffles anyone as long as we keep winning. 14-6-1 this season. 65-35-13 since Sutter came in. I hope we get stiffled like that forever.

Soo this I went thru years with the kings scoring alot ( the whole triple crown line seasons especially ) Looking at the top scoring and seeing Dionne amoung the top scorers was a great joy as a kid but fact is defense wins more then scoring. I Know goals are more sexy but ill take a 1-0 win over a 6 5 loss anyday.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Six pages? I almost forgot we won!

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Man I'm kind of surprised that a guy big and strong like Greene has turned into such an injury prone.

 

[Legionnaire]

Man I'm kind of surprised that a guy big and strong like Greene has turned into such an injury prone.

Do you watch the guy and see how physically he does play? That takes a toll on anyone.