GDT: Game #2 Sharks vs Ducks - 7:30 PM PDT CSN-CA

[Juxtaposer]

Where did I say he wasn't? Just said its not enough by itself to warrant a 4th line spot. Imo if we want to roll 4 lines that is. I guess he seemingly helps drive possession but I'm starting to think he is suffering from Kennedy syndrome.

Nieto is absolutely good enough to warrant a 4th line spot on the merit of his defensive ability alone.

 

[do0glas]

Nieto is absolutely good enough to warrant a 4th line spot on the merit of his defensive ability alone.

I guess I'm okay with it. What if nieto plus a pick gets a scoring winger?

If it's smith or nieto to play on the 4th in the playoffs I consider smith.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Lol, I can't believe the Nieto hate. He was one of our best players on the ice last night and had 2 great scoring opportunities.

I'm not even gonna bother arguing, though, after half the season when his luck goes back to normal you will all be talking about how lucky we are to have such an elite 3rd liner.

LOL @ Smith over Nieto. Just lol.

 

[hockeyball]

Lol, I can't believe the Nieto hate. He was one of our best players on the ice last night and had 2 great scoring opportunities.

I'm not even gonna bother arguing, though, after half the season when his luck goes back to normal you will all be talking about how lucky we are to have such an elite 3rd liner.

LOL @ Smith over Nieto. Just lol.

Yup, this.

 

[Ninja Hertl]

I rewatched the game this morning and Nieto did have 3 or more opportunities where he got in alone because of his speed.

But, if he never gets that scoring touch, he'll turn into another Mason Raymond. So here we are. Still think even without that offense he'd be an effective 4th liner.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I buy the argument of moving Nieto to the 4th line but he is easily better than Brown and Goodrow and definitely has a place on the team. He generates good chances and is excellent defensively. His biggest issue is that he cannot seem to convert chances. If he can start doing that, he is a decent 2nd liner or a really good 3rd liner.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Also, we need to do away with the mentality that 4th liners need to be hit other players. This is a 4 line team with plenty of physical players.

The only issue with Nieto being on the 4th line is that he and Tierney are both great playmakers who are best suited as F2s, and their 3rd linemate would most likely be an F1 (ex. Brown, Karlsson, Torres). I think Nieto would be better suited as Hertl's linemate, because Hertl is a fantastic F3, and those 2 would dominate completely dominate possession. Stick them with a solid F1 like Karlsson and that probably ends up being the 3rd line that dominates every playoff matchup.

Also, he has 22 oals in 147 career games if you include playoffs. That's a 12 goal per season pace, assuming he doesn't improve on it this year (he will). Last year we only had 8 guys who scored more than 12 goals. So, basically, you guys are suggesting that nieto is not good enough to be a 4th liner because being top-9 in goal scoring ability isn't enough goal scoring ability to be on the 4th line, and we definitely have 12 guys who can score more than him (we don't)

Also, it's been 2 games this season; should we trade Couture, Wingels, Ward, and Tierney, cause those guys haven't found the back of the net either?

 

[do0glas]

im sorry, ive seen nieto on the 4th line. he goes missing. his numbers with prototypical 4th liners arent very good. sub 50% CF, sub 40% GF, and no positive goal differential.

also he doesnt really playmake. he overshoots a la kennedy.

i love the kid, i love his speed and his skill. but hes not a guy that will boss the boards for you on the 4th line, and if hes not scoring or setting guys up then hes just filling a spot.

so no hate here, simply saying hes not producing like he should be. i hope its a puck luck thing-he was getting horrendous SH%. but the worrisome thing for me is how bad his goal diff was considering his .940 sv% on ice.

alls im saying is there are some indicators. things that worry me. im not giving up on him, just being realistic.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't think anybody on this team has a positive CF% with prototypical 4th liners. The thing is, we don't have any prototypical 4th liners. The closest is Mike Brown, who showed last night he can play a decent possession game in DeBoer's system.

Nieto is nothing like Tyler kennedy...I don't think he overshoots at all. Last night he had a few pretty clear breaks where the right play was definitely to shoot the puck. We may just have to agree to disagree on this one, but most people on here share the notion that nieto is a pretty good playmaker.

 

[do0glas]

I don't think anybody on this team has a positive CF% with prototypical 4th liners. The thing is, we don't have any prototypical 4th liners. The closest is Mike Brown, who showed last night he can play a decent possession game in DeBoer's system.

Nieto is nothing like Tyler kennedy...I don't think he overshoots at all. Last night he had a few pretty clear breaks where the right play was definitely to shoot the puck. We may just have to agree to disagree on this one, but most people on here share the notion that nieto is a pretty good playmaker.

hes third best in our current bottom six at playmaking and id say if donskoi moved down hed be 4th best. hertl/tierney/nieto

but yea we can just agree to disagree. im not giving up on him by any means, i just think they defensive stud/playmaker meme has picked up enough steam that its just assumed now.

 

[The Nemesis]

Lol, I can't believe the Nieto hate. He was one of our best players on the ice last night and had 2 great scoring opportunities.

I'm not even gonna bother arguing, though, after half the season when his luck goes back to normal you will all be talking about how lucky we are to have such an elite 3rd liner.

LOL @ Smith over Nieto. Just lol.

Not "hate", but scoring chances are one thing; having Grier-sy stone hands that prevent you from converting them is another.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

im sorry, ive seen nieto on the 4th line. he goes missing. his numbers with prototypical 4th liners arent very good. sub 50% CF, sub 40% GF, and no positive goal differential.

also he doesnt really playmake. he overshoots a la kennedy.

i love the kid, i love his speed and his skill. but hes not a guy that will boss the boards for you on the 4th line, and if hes not scoring or setting guys up then hes just filling a spot.

so no hate here, simply saying hes not producing like he should be. i hope its a puck luck thing-he was getting horrendous SH%. but the worrisome thing for me is how bad his goal diff was considering his .940 sv% on ice.

alls im saying is there are some indicators. things that worry me. im not giving up on him, just being realistic.

I think the objective should be at this point to not have a prototypical 4th line with the kind of forward depth they have right now. Nieto would certainly fit in under such an objective.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'm generally okay with him getting chances and not converting. Usually means he's doing something right. Would be nice if he could score.

As always, I describe him as a great player but a terrible scorer.

 

[kdb209]

I rewatched the game this morning and Nieto did have 3 or more opportunities where he got in alone because of his speed.

But, if he never gets that scoring touch, he'll turn into another Mason Raymond. So here we are. Still think even without that offense he'd be an effective 4th liner.

Nieto = Shean Donovan

 

[do0glas]

I think the objective should be at this point to not have a prototypical 4th line with the kind of forward depth they have right now. Nieto would certainly fit in under such an objective.

The issue is he doesn't current fit under either. Can't score, can't hit, is okay ish at forechecking but gets pushed off.

His goal diff makes me question his defensive abilities.

So what is his role, and if goldobin is called up and starts putting the puck in the net will we miss him?

I'm just playing devils advocate. I want nieto to succeed. He's a sharks draft pick and worked his way through our system.

But for instance I don't think a

Nieto-tierney-brown/goodrow line would be more effective than say

Wingels/karlsson-tierney-brown/goodrow

Who knows. I feel like I'm picking on the kid lol. Really he's just under performing expectations and if his sh% is a bad run of luck you can laugh me off of here.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Didn't watch the game (away on vacation for the long weekend)... Way to go, Jones!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The issue is he doesn't current fit under either. Can't score, can't hit, is okay ish at forechecking but gets pushed off.

His goal diff makes me question his defensive abilities.

So what is his role, and if goldobin is called up and starts putting the puck in the net will we miss him?

I'm just playing devils advocate. I want nieto to succeed. He's a sharks draft pick and worked his way through our system.

But for instance I don't think a

Nieto-tierney-brown/goodrow line would be more effective than say

Wingels/karlsson-tierney-brown/goodrow

Who knows. I feel like I'm picking on the kid lol. Really he's just under performing expectations and if his sh% is a bad run of luck you can laugh me off of here.

But you could do Wingels/Karlsson-Tierney-Nieto as he would be better than either Goodrow or Brown in any even strength capacity. This is assuming that we're trying to make a real line and not a line where we assume a need for 'energy' or a face-puncher essentially. Goodrow is in no way better than Nieto at anything.

 

[Timos Death Stare]

But you could do Wingels/Karlsson-Tierney-Nieto as he would be better than either Goodrow or Brown in any even strength capacity. This is assuming that we're trying to make a real line and not a line where we assume a need for 'energy' or a face-puncher essentially. Goodrow is in no way better than Nieto at anything.

He's better at taking a hit - seems to get his bell rung at least once a game

 

[OrrNumber4]

A
Also, he has 22 oals in 147 career games if you include playoffs. That's a 12 goal per season pace, assuming he doesn't improve on it this year (he will). Last year we only had 8 guys who scored more than 12 goals. So, basically, you guys are suggesting that nieto is not good enough to be a 4th liner because being top-9 in goal scoring ability isn't enough goal scoring ability to be on the 4th line, and we definitely have 12 guys who can score more than him (we don't)

Also, it's been 2 games this season; should we trade Couture, Wingels, Ward, and Tierney, cause those guys haven't found the back of the net either?

That's damning with faint praise. He would have finished 9th in scoring on a non-playoff team, with decent minutes and linemates to boot....not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I think he is a good player, but he falls play to a bit of a bias. A player without Nieto's instincts or speed will not have as many chances; we don't get to see him fail. With Nieto, we see him getting chances but bungling because of his hands and composure. He looks worse by comparison. That being said, the bias from the other direction is how his lack of finish might just be seen as bad luck, and not actual ability.

If he continues to struggle to finish, his role will have to change.

 

[Mattb124]

Nieto is the new Torrey Mitchell, but I am still waiting for his 1 highlight end to end rush each year. We would need to run a 3a and 3b line to make him really useful. He doesn't fit on a traditional 4th line. I don't know if Smith - Tierney - Nieto would have enough grit to be effective against a broad spectrum of teams.

 

[LeeIFBB]

Old and slow beats young and fast every time.

 

[stator]

To me Nieto is a keeper, or good trade material. A player that DW can dangle to attract a real need should it arise.

He's not a bottom liner or a top liner.

 

[do0glas]

But you could do Wingels/Karlsson-Tierney-Nieto as he would be better than either Goodrow or Brown in any even strength capacity. This is assuming that we're trying to make a real line and not a line where we assume a need for 'energy' or a face-puncher essentially. Goodrow is in no way better than Nieto at anything.

I would argue wingels-tierney-goodrow is a real line.

At this point nieto only got 6 more goals in 12 more games than goodrow playing with much better players.

We can't just assume he will score anymore, he has to start doing it or we have to consider what we want his role to be.

Nieto is a better player than goodrow but that doesn't mean he's a better fit. I'd rather he just potted a few and shut me up though.

 

[ScottyDont]

At the very least, if Nieto doesn't find his scoring touch, we at least don't have to worry about him as a RFA next year.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I would argue wingels-tierney-goodrow is a real line.

At this point nieto only got 6 more goals in 12 more games than goodrow playing with much better players.

We can't just assume he will score anymore, he has to start doing it or we have to consider what we want his role to be.

Nieto is a better player than goodrow but that doesn't mean he's a better fit. I'd rather he just potted a few and shut me up though.

I'm not worried about the scoring. I'm worried about the flow of play and who contributes most to that. That's Nieto over Goodrow all day, every day. And he'd be a better fit with Wingels and Tierney and most any potential line combinations simply because he's better at keeping the puck in the offensive end.