Game #19: KINGS @ ISLANDERS - 11/14/13 - Regulation Win! 3-2 Monarchs Victory!

KingCanadain1976

Registered User
Jul 8, 2009
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Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Clifford hits and that's about it, we have better players to take his spot right now, and its shown since he's been out, the Kings need to trade him now when he still has value, because its pretty clear to most fans it seems that he's nothing more than a 4th liner at this point.

Lombardi really should've dealt him during the off-season when his value was at its highest, probably could've gotten at least a 2nd+ for him.

with his limited ice time he is doing what is asked of him . I will be willing to bet that if his ice time went up to 13 -15 mins a game on his new team he will make us regret trading him and he will get 35 -40 points while being in the top 10 in hits. He isn't close to being near his potential. I have no doubt he will be heading out of la His hits will be missed by me but in time hoping others will realize his game.Whats this its shown since hes been out crap what two game one of which we lost in a shootout has proven what exactly ? sigh I just hope we trade him east so he doesn't hurt us to much in the future. Mark me words we will regret trading him.
 

KingLB

Registered User
Oct 29, 2008
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Clifford may have a little bit of value left to bring the Kings a veteran defenseman. The Kings would be lucky to get anything for the other two.

Think your underrating Stolls value around the league. Look at what Gaustad got a few years ago. Only issue would be lack of cap space...would have to late till the deadline I think to increase teams able to afford him.
 

Fishhead

Registered User
Jul 15, 2003
7,306
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yeah medicore players finish 5th in the league in hits all the time. Also start getting pk time for the first time this season. He also finished last year with the most points in his carrer playing less games. Clifford isn't in the lineup to make points hes there to hit the other team. He has shown a lot of offensive potential playing around 10 mins agame WTF do you expect from him playing theses mins? I wish people would lay off him he was starting to play on the pk why would sutter start this if he was such a liability? I'm sick and tired of hearing people lay into Clifford when he is doing what is asked of him, :shakehead:help:

Clifford has finished 9th in hits once, he's never been top 5. Guys who hit more than he does: Clune, Martin, Komarov, Glass, etc. All mediocre guys.

Clifford scored 5 points in his first 4 games last year. Since then, he's had 10 points in his next 60 or so games. He's got one point this year. He's been on the ice shorthanded for 5:29 total this year, and part of that was because of injuries to two of our penalty killing forwards. He's not a special teams guy at all.

I don't think anyone is laying into him, it's just becoming more obvious that Nolan is a better option.
 

damacles1156

Registered User
Feb 5, 2010
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The Kings ruined Clifford's development with No AHL exp.

You are seeing how valuable it is to have Young players play for Manchester under Morris.

Pearson/Vey/Toffoli.

Stoll shouldn't have been resigned(but that's hindsight)...

Stoll actually had a productive regular season last year, he just dissipated since.

Loki/Clifford/Moller all ruined due too not sticking to the development path that has proven to work.
 

Reclamation Project

Cut It All Right In Two
Jul 6, 2011
34,135
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Clifford has finished 9th in hits once, he's never been top 5. Guys who hit more than he does: Clune, Martin, Komarov, Glass, etc. All mediocre guys.

Clifford scored 5 points in his first 4 games last year. Since then, he's had 10 points in his next 60 or so games. He's got one point this year. He's been on the ice shorthanded for 5:29 total this year, and part of that was because of injuries to two of our penalty killing forwards. He's not a special teams guy at all.

I don't think anyone is laying into him, it's just becoming more obvious that Nolan is a better option.

And even Carcillo, to a degree.
 

KingLB

Registered User
Oct 29, 2008
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Clifford hits and that's about it, we have better players to take his spot right now, and its shown since he's been out, the Kings need to trade him now when he still has value, because its pretty clear to most fans it seems that he's nothing more than a 4th liner at this point.

Lombardi really should've dealt him during the off-season when his value was at its highest, probably could've gotten at least a 2nd+ for him.

With that line of thinking shouldn't the Kings trade all 3 of the young guys right now. Thats when their value is highest!!! Toffoli might have the highest PPG in the league right now!
 

KingLB

Registered User
Oct 29, 2008
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The Kings ruined Clifford's development with No AHL exp.

You are seeing how valuable it is to have Young players play for Manchester under Morris.

Pearson/Vey/Toffoli.

Stoll shouldn't have been resigned(but that's hindsight)...

Stoll actually had a productive regular season last year, he just dissipated since.

Agree, he was developing nicely in the OHL. Needed another year to continue to develop the offensive game, but TM keep him up. And his only way to stick was being pigeonholed as the "fighter". At that looks like that is what he has become.

Disagree on Stoll. You didn't (and really still don't) know what you had in Vey. Why not keep an asset for free. If Vey proves himself then Stoll is moved and you gain more assets. It was similar in nature to the RR signing. Almost a hedge more than anything.
 

kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Mar 18, 2002
13,384
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Manitoba, Canada
The Kings ruined Clifford's development with No AHL exp.

You are seeing how valuable it is to have Young players play for Manchester under Morris.

Pearson/Vey/Toffoli.

Stoll shouldn't have been resigned(but that's hindsight)...

Stoll actually had a productive regular season last year, he just dissipated since.

Loki/Clifford/Moller all ruined due too not sticking to the development path that has proven to work.

While I do agree with you overall, I think Loki's issue was also injuries. He missed about 80 games over two seasons.
 

Papa Mocha 15

I love the smell of ice in the morning.
Nov 27, 2008
3,868
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Hanging with Brad Doty.
The Kings ruined Clifford's development with No AHL exp.

You are seeing how valuable it is to have Young players play for Manchester under Morris.

Pearson/Vey/Toffoli.

Stoll shouldn't have been resigned(but that's hindsight)...

Stoll actually had a productive regular season last year, he just dissipated since.

Loki/Clifford/Moller all ruined due too not sticking to the development path that has proven to work.

On Clifford, they may have ruined him, but at the same time, they didn't really have many alternatives except to sign a scrub at a much higher price. Part of the process is bringing up younger players and seeing who fits and who doesn't.

But I do agree with the rest of your comments.
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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Loki was never going to work in our system. Lombardi took him in a low round thinking he may pan out into something that worked.

It still bothers me that we let go of Hickey when we did. Suppose there was just no room for him and he was continually passed on the depth chart, but yeah. Our D is really thin in Manch as far as NHL ready goes.
 

KBA4life

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Oct 22, 2003
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On Clifford, they may have ruined him, but at the same time, they didn't really have many alternatives except to sign a scrub at a much higher price. Part of the process is bringing up younger players and seeing who fits and who doesn't.

But I do agree with the rest of your comments.

Clifford is too reckless, plain and simple. A pee wee hockey player knows not to skate with your head low and then explode upwards to hit, it's a recipe for disaster. I think Clifford is a perfect 4th liner, but he won't be for long if he keeps racking up the concussions
 

ru4reals

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
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I think I know who ruined Clifford......Ryan Reaves right knuckles! He hasn't been the same since!
 

Ollie Weeks

the sea does not dream of you
Feb 28, 2008
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With his face off skills I am thinking he could move at the trade deadline, didn't Nashville pay a 1st for a very good face off guy a couple of years ago.

He may not get a first but he would pull more than next to nothing. People underestimate the value of a very good face off man.

I have to wonder if we're better off holding on to him for the playoffs. What better #4C could we possibly have? And if Vey falters, Stoll the veteran can eat more minutes and help a matchup situation.

Disagree on Stoll. You didn't (and really still don't) know what you had in Vey. Why not keep an asset for free. If Vey proves himself then Stoll is moved and you gain more assets. It was similar in nature to the RR signing. Almost a hedge more than anything.

I agree. We might not get what full value by holding on to him until the summer, but there's definitely merit to keeping him simply for insurance. A hockey deal, say Stoll and a pick for Moulson, I could understand, but to subtract him for a draft pick and nothing more at that stage of the season is miserly and risky. I'm more interested in another deep run than maybe drafting an extra prospect to pan out 2 years down the road.
 

KingKopitar11*

Guest
Trade Clifford? Yeah I forgot. Everyone's afraid of Car bomb and Nolan.

Clifford's a decent enforcer; he'll drop em with anybody. I don't think those other guys would be too willing to drop them with the tougher enforcers in the league, much less be willing to take a beating like Clifford does. And plus, it's not like Clifford can't play, he's a decent 3rd liner when put into that role.

I guess it comes down to why you'd want to trade Cliff and why other teams would be willing to give something decent in return. I just don't see the value in it.

Nolan fought a 6'5 238 pound dude today. Your argument just collapsed. And Nolan's had a total amount of 0 concussions. And is cheaper. Clifford is redundant
 

KingKopitar11*

Guest
If the white line stays together we will light up the Devils.
 

HolyShot*

Guest
Nolan fought a 6'5 238 pound dude today. Your argument just collapsed. And Nolan's had a total amount of 0 concussions. And is cheaper. Clifford is redundant
Did he? I didn't see the game tonight. But it seems that clifford won't back down to anybody. Every team needs a player like that but not every team has one. He's bigger than nolan, I'm pretty sure, so you'd think hed be more durable than him also.

I like the guy and think that he shouldn't be traded. Too valuable. Scratch him until he learns how to protect himself in all situations.
 

KingsHockey24

Registered User
Aug 1, 2013
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All this Clifford hate makes me sad considering he's one of my favorite players on the Kings. But I even realize that he hasnt played well and injurys are really messing him up.

I'm hoping in the next few seasons Fraser, Stoll, Regher, Mitchell, and Frattin are off the roster..
 

Omni Owl

No fun, only 1-3-1
Mar 9, 2008
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I guess its the nature of sports fans to want certain guys off and on the team, but I still feel like its some self serving BS on the part of fans because every guy we're talking about has sacrificed a **** load to be here. To just write them off because they're injured or hurt or haven't gelled enough or whatever. They still make up team chemistry, and its more than what we all just see on the ice.

I should also add a disclaimer that I don't know much about sports compared to many.
 
In 2011-2012 the Kings needed to add some grit and character to the bottom lines, they called up King and Nolan to replace Moreau and Hunter and totally changed the makeup of the team.

In 2013-2014 the Kings needed to add skill to the bottom lines, we have seen Vey, Toffoli and Pearson all come up and contribute key goals to help the team win.

Great teams have lines like the kid line, they don't send out junk lines like Clifford-Stoll-Lewis.

I am extremely impressed with all these kids. They have been a breath of fresh air to a team thaat desperately needed it.

In 2012 Sutter called up two young grinders to replace two old grinders which kinda refutes the idea that I've seen many people post that he favors veterans over grinders.

And the line about great teams, you do realize that Clifford, Stoll and Lewis are all Stanley Cup Champions right? I guess that wasn't a great team. Or maybe you are suggesting their play has diminished so much in that time period that they are no longer capable of playing at that level? It is funny because in the GDT you mention Brown and Kopitar are struggling but you are confident they can get their game back but for some reason the three whipping boys you've picked out this year are unable to. I personally don't care if they replace Stoll et al. I want what is best for the team but I can understand why the GM in the coach wouldn't be so certain these guys can continue to play at this level and into the playoffs. The three you listed are champions and are more than likely be given the benefit of the doubt until their play and their potential replacements play dictates otherwise.

The young guys have far exceeded my expectations to this point but the real question is if they can keep it up. BTW.. I only watched the third period of last nights game but apparently Pearson was abysmal before that. He scores one goal, an important goal, and everyone seems to forget about that. Unless of course that wasn't true.

Sutter and/or Lombardi have a severe soft spot for veteran grinders, and I think it has weakened the product we have put on the ice both this season and last. You hate to see anyone get hurt, but it appears injury is the only way to open their eyes to just how awful guys like Clifford, Stoll and Fraser are.

That is the type of skilled bottom six forwards we need to beat Chicago. It will be really interesting to see what happens when Clifford and Stoll come back, how do you possibly send these kids down to play those stiffs.

And here your first line contradicts the statement you made prior. Sutter called up King and Nolan over veteran grinders. This year when the current three rookies were called up, they've all been inserted into the line up and he even played them on the PP yesterday.

This idea that Sutter is a dinosaur and favor grinders over skill or veterans over youth is complete horse ****. Voynov played top minutes as a rookie. Muzzin did as well. There are plenty of rookies that are both grinders or skill players that Sutter has relied on.
 

etherialone

dialed in your mom
Mar 6, 2008
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The Ether
In 2011-2012 the Kings needed to add some grit and character to the bottom lines, they called up King and Nolan to replace Moreau and Hunter and totally changed the makeup of the team.

In 2013-2014 the Kings needed to add skill to the bottom lines, we have seen Vey, Toffoli and Pearson all come up and contribute key goals to help the team win.

Great teams have lines like the kid line, they don't send out junk lines like Clifford-Stoll-Lewis.

I am extremely impressed with all these kids. They have been a breath of fresh air to a team thaat desperately needed it.

Our depth IS as good as I have been ranting for years.

What is truly great about this is that we have Shore Andy Andy Porky Zykov Kozun Sabourin Forbort Gravel and on down on the farm waiting. Our depth is scary good.
 

KingCanadain1976

Registered User
Jul 8, 2009
18,345
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Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Clifford has finished 9th in hits once, he's never been top 5. Guys who hit more than he does: Clune, Martin, Komarov, Glass, etc. All mediocre guys.

Clifford scored 5 points in his first 4 games last year. Since then, he's had 10 points in his next 60 or so games. He's got one point this year. He's been on the ice shorthanded for 5:29 total this year, and part of that was because of injuries to two of our penalty killing forwards. He's not a special teams guy at all.

I don't think anyone is laying into him, it's just becoming more obvious that Nolan is a better option.

hmm ok it looks like 9th still my point is valid Its a stat that is not something to just blow off as nothing which most king fans are. The kings play a physical hard hitting game and Clifford is among the leaders of this stat. One of the things most king fans love of brown is his hard hitting physical play guess what last year Clifford out hit him in a a lot less ice time. The point I was making with the short hand time is that his game is evolving unlike what most fans post that his game is stalled he got this time from the beging of the year not just recently No one was injured nice try. If you don't think anyone is laying into him try reading Herbys posts he rips him almost every time he posts. Nolan isn't a better option for Clifford they don't play the same position even Now that king is finally starting to play better and Pearson is on the team Clifford days will be numbered sadly I just hope he goes east so when he finally breaks out it wont hurt as much. With more mins he will become a 35 40 point player and be added to list of talent we let go aka Purcell boyle bernier Molson etc
 

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