GDT: Game 19 - CBJ vs NSH - 20 Feb, 7pm

[Double-Shift Lasse]

But why does it seem like when players leave they instantly become better or look different than they did here?

Is it not possible that the word ‘seem’ is the most important in your question?

 

[Fred Glover]

I don’t think Jesus would even be able to play hockey. When we last saw him, he had some problems with his wrists and hands.

He heals quickly

 

[Cowumbus]

Is it not possible that the word ‘seem’ is the most important in your question?

Not when it is quantifiable with a significant amount of players, IMO.

 

[Cowumbus]

Probably the same reason the grass is greener on the other side. You only see the green part. There have been plenty of forgettable ex-Jackets.

Perhaps someone can do a thorough analysis of all ex-Jackets. Suffice it to say I put this daily stat watching of ex-Jackets in the garbage bin.

Domi decreased in production here too :/

on pace for his worst season ever.


how can guys like Sedlak and Lilja even go on to be top scorers on their KHL teams? It’s just weird.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Domi decreased in production here too :/

on pace for his worst season ever.


how can guys like Sedlak and Lilja even go on to be top scorers on their KHL teams? It’s just weird.

Because they went from 4th line ice time in the NHL to top line ice time against not as good pros. That has nothing to do with Torts. They're producing in an easier league with much more ice time.

 

[Cowumbus]

Because they went from 4th line ice time in the NHL to top line ice time against not as good pros. That has nothing to do with Torts. They're producing in an easier league with much more ice time.

Is that not the same with Karlsson? It’s on the coach to see that potential and play them in positions to succeed. Torts does not give guys opportunities to bust out.

Panarin was PPG one time in his KHL career. It’s not a bad league.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Is that not the same with Karlsson? It’s on the coach to see that potential and play them in positions to succeed. Torts does not give guys opportunities to bust out.

Yes we were all clammering for Jakob Lilja and Lukas Sedlak to be in our top 6.

Come on now. Karlsson was a misfire by the organization fine, but lets not compare apples to oranges here.

There are plenty of examples of Torts giving guys time to succeed and them doing so.

 

[Cowumbus]

Yes we were all clammering for Jakob Lilja and Lukas Sedlak to be in our top 6.

Come on now. Karlsson was a misfire by the organization fine, but lets not compare apples to oranges here.

There are plenty of examples of Torts giving guys time to succeed and them doing so.

I’m not saying they belong in the top6. And you know that. But did those guys ever get a chance on anything other than the fourth line?

They have way more offensive ability then they ever showed here. Is that not on Torts?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I’m not saying they belong in the top6. And you know that.

But they have way more offensive ability then they ever showed here. Is that not on Torts?

No. Its proof how wide a difference there is from the NHL. You and I watched Lukas Sedlak for years, the dude can't skate, but suddenly he look like he can keep up in the KHL because everyone else is on his same level. Thats not a Torts thing, thats a KHL thing and how low the talent is.

 

[Cowumbus]

No. Its proof how wide a difference there is from the NHL. You and I watched Lukas Sedlak for years, the dude can't skate, but suddenly he look like he can keep up in the KHL because everyone else is on his same level. Thats not a Torts thing, thats a KHL thing and how low the talent is.

But if our top prospects are producing at a much lower clip in the KHL that is OK?

Marchenko, Voronkov, Chinakhov all playing in the same league and producing less? So if they come here they will be even worse in Torts system?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

But if our top prospects are producing at a much lower clip in the KHL that is OK?

Marchenko, Voronkov, Chinakhov all playing in the same league and producing less? So if they come here they will be even worse in Torts system?

Maybe we value them higher than we should.

Marchenko has always been viewed as a boom or bust guy. He's also battled injuries. Who knows when he'll be over.

Voronkov won't be a scorer at the NHL level. He's compared to Jenner for a reason.

Chinakhov was a questionable pick when it was made and still looks that way. We'll see how it works out, he won't be over for a while.

 

[Cowumbus]

Maybe we value them higher than we should.

Marchenko has always been viewed as a boom or bust guy. He's also battled injuries. Who knows when he'll be over.

Voronkov won't be a scorer at the NHL level. He's compared to Jenner for a reason.

Chinakhov was a questionable pick when it was made and still looks that way. We'll see how it works out, he won't be over for a while.

I’m withholding judgement but if you look across the KHL it’s a relatively low scoring league. Kaprizov last year in the KHL had 62 in 57, and look how he’s doing in the NHL. I think the fact that Lilja and Sedlak score as much as they do is not something to discard.

Kaprizov last two years had 113 in 114
Panarin last two years in KHL 102P in 105 GP
Sedlak this year has 40P in 57 pace of 73 in 105
Lilja pace would be 65 in 105
Grigorenko had 93P in 102GP

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Not when it is quantifiable with a significant amount of players, IMO.

But what if there’s an equal or greater number of players who haven’t improved away from Torts?

 

[Cowumbus]

But what if there’s an equal or greater number of players who haven’t improved away from Torts?

Show me the players who got worse.

Milano for one

Better
Panarin
Anderson
Wennberg?
Karlsson
Duclair
Calvert

same
Saad
Johansen
Nutivarra
Murray

worse
Milano

better with torts
MDZ
Roslovic?

same with torts
Nyquist
Laine
Grigorenko

worse with torts
Domi
Nash

 

[majormajor]

how can guys like Sedlak and Lilja even go on to be top scorers on their KHL teams? It’s just weird.

That happens all the time. The top ranks of the KHL are littered with NHL rejects.

But if our top prospects are producing at a much lower clip in the KHL that is OK?

Marchenko, Voronkov, Chinakhov all playing in the same league and producing less? So if they come here they will be even worse in Torts system?

They're really not that much lower if at all. Marchenko's is almost the same rate. Chinakhov is only a little lower and he just turned 20. When a rapidly improving kid that age is already scoring at a rate commensurate with 4th line NHLers, that's not bad at all.

Voronkov is used as a checking forward in Kazan, his numbers will translate better if he's going to a checking line in N.A, compared to a KHL topliner going to a checking role in N.A. (Grigorenko).

Those kids actually have some of the highest numbers for U-22 players in the KHL.

Show me the players who got worse.

Milano for one

Better
Panarin
Anderson
Wennberg?
Karlsson
Duclair
Calvert

same
Saad
Johansen
Nutivarra
Murray

worse
Milano

better with torts
MDZ
Roslovic?

same with torts
Nyquist
Laine
Grigorenko

worse with torts
Domi
Nash

I was hoping someone would do something rigorous but this ain't it.

Milano didn't get worse. He's on a conditioning stint coming off of injury. We have no idea if he will be better or worse there. He's played 11 games as a Duck.

Calvert didn't do better. He's the same exact player in Colorado as he was in Columbus.

Brandon Saad actually got worse when he left Columbus.

We don't even know yet if Wennberg changed anything. He is far behind his linemates in scoring, that usually tells us that his linemates have lifted him up, not that the coaching change did. And if you look at his actual goals it sure looks like that. To have him be the reason this topic has come up is hilarious.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Show me the players who got worse.

Milano for one

Better
Panarin
Anderson
Wennberg?
Karlsson
Duclair
Calvert

same
Saad
Johansen
Nutivarra
Murray

worse
Milano

better with torts
MDZ
Roslovic?

same with torts
Nyquist
Laine
Grigorenko

worse with torts
Domi
Nash

Don't know why Panarin is in the better category. We called him a top tier player before anyone else did. The only reason its news is because he's doing it in New York. Had he stuck it out here I bet he would have been an MVP candidate as well.

Anderson, Wennberg, Milano, Nuti, Murray are still TBD. As is Laine, Domi, and Roslovic. Johansen was coached by Torts for like two months so I don't really think thats fair.

Duclair has improved? Is that why Ottawa also got rid of him? The dude is just a journeyman. He had a nice spurt with us and Ottawa at the start but hes still very much the same flawed player we had. Matt Calvert literally has his same role he had here but he has a way better team than what he ever had here.

Saad got worse.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Hilarious to see the mental gymnastics in here about players becoming much more productive once freed from Torts . Bottom line . Why didn’t they do it here ? Karlsson puts up 50g in a season including the playoffs . His high here was 9g. Wennberg, another center , is freed of Torts , is on pace for 25 g in this were a full season . His last 3 seasons with cbj , he scored , 8g , 2 g, and 5G.. Domi comes here , he had 28g and 17g past 2 seasons , he’s on pace for 9. Anderson goes to Montreal has 9g 3 a in 17 games ... Laine in his last 4 games, has 1 shot on goal each game, except the last , he has 0 shots on goal. Narrative around here of course is Domi sucks... guess he just became a terrible NHL player the moment he was traded here , and Laine is a one trick pony .

Whats the offensive game plan here ? Why does this coach , coach and utilize every player the exact same way .. Anyone see PLDs game last night . Has to be maddening as a gm to acquire skill, and watch this coach squander it . Perhaps what Domi alluded to in his interview , being jerked around , different line mates , different position every night , gives us insight as to what the problem is.. Players are micromanaged so badly around here , they can’t just play , they don’t feel comfortable . Wennberg is now , just playing , not thinking ... it’s like people forget that Bjorkstrand was badly mismanaged for nearly 2 yrs , and he was a victim of this .. one of the lucky few that made it thru to the other side , and didn’t request a trade , or was run off . Yet I would argue he possibly is a 40g scorer if he escapes Torts ... he’s being badly mismanaged .

 

[Greggo56]

Hilarious to see the mental gymnastics in here about players becoming much more productive once freed from Torts . Bottom line . Why didn’t they do it here ? Karlsson puts up 50g in a season including the playoffs . His high here was 9g. Wennberg, another center , is freed of Torts , is on pace for 25 g in this were a full season . His last 3 seasons with cbj , he scored , 8g , 2 g, and 5G.. Domi comes here , he had 28g and 17g past 2 seasons , he’s on pace for 9. Anderson goes to Montreal has 9g 3 a in 17 games ... Laine in his last 4 games, has 1 shot on goal each game, except the last , he has 0 shots on goal. Narrative around here of course is Domi sucks... guess he just became a terrible NHL player the moment he was traded here , and Laine is a one trick pony .

Whats the offensive game plan here ? Why does this coach , coach and utilize every player the exact same way .. Anyone see PLDs game last night . Has to be maddening as a gm to acquire skill, and watch this coach squander it . Perhaps what Domi alluded to in his interview , being jerked around , different line mates , different position every night , gives us insight as to what the problem is.. Players are micromanaged so badly around here , they can’t just play , they don’t feel comfortable . Wennberg is now , just playing , not thinking ... it’s like people forget that Bjorkstrand was badly mismanaged for nearly 2 yrs , and he was a victim of this .. one of the lucky few that made it thru to the other side , and didn’t request a trade , or was run off . Yet I would argue he possibly is a 40g scorer if he escapes Torts ... he’s being badly mismanaged .

Spot on

 

[Doug19]

Hilarious to see the mental gymnastics in here about players becoming much more productive once freed from Torts . Bottom line . Why didn’t they do it here ? Karlsson puts up 50g in a season including the playoffs . His high here was 9g. Wennberg, another center , is freed of Torts , is on pace for 25 g in this were a full season . His last 3 seasons with cbj , he scored , 8g , 2 g, and 5G.. Domi comes here , he had 28g and 17g past 2 seasons , he’s on pace for 9. Anderson goes to Montreal has 9g 3 a in 17 games ... Laine in his last 4 games, has 1 shot on goal each game, except the last , he has 0 shots on goal. Narrative around here of course is Domi sucks... guess he just became a terrible NHL player the moment he was traded here , and Laine is a one trick pony .

Whats the offensive game plan here ? Why does this coach , coach and utilize every player the exact same way .. Anyone see PLDs game last night . Has to be maddening as a gm to acquire skill, and watch this coach squander it . Perhaps what Domi alluded to in his interview , being jerked around , different line mates , different position every night , gives us insight as to what the problem is.. Players are micromanaged so badly around here , they can’t just play , they don’t feel comfortable . Wennberg is now , just playing , not thinking ... it’s like people forget that Bjorkstrand was badly mismanaged for nearly 2 yrs , and he was a victim of this .. one of the lucky few that made it thru to the other side , and didn’t request a trade , or was run off . Yet I would argue he possibly is a 40g scorer if he escapes Torts ... he’s being badly mismanaged .

I agree, I don't think Tort's is the right guy to coach the young guys long term. I think he certainly does a good job of instilling the value of hard work and having the right attitude, I just don't think he has done a good job at developing players offensively.

 

[Monstershockey]

Hilarious to see the mental gymnastics in here about players becoming much more productive once freed from Torts . Bottom line . Why didn’t they do it here ? Karlsson puts up 50g in a season including the playoffs . His high here was 9g. Wennberg, another center , is freed of Torts , is on pace for 25 g in this were a full season . His last 3 seasons with cbj , he scored , 8g , 2 g, and 5G.. Domi comes here , he had 28g and 17g past 2 seasons , he’s on pace for 9. Anderson goes to Montreal has 9g 3 a in 17 games ... Laine in his last 4 games, has 1 shot on goal each game, except the last , he has 0 shots on goal. Narrative around here of course is Domi sucks... guess he just became a terrible NHL player the moment he was traded here , and Laine is a one trick pony .

Whats the offensive game plan here ? Why does this coach , coach and utilize every player the exact same way .. Anyone see PLDs game last night . Has to be maddening as a gm to acquire skill, and watch this coach squander it . Perhaps what Domi alluded to in his interview , being jerked around , different line mates , different position every night , gives us insight as to what the problem is.. Players are micromanaged so badly around here , they can’t just play , they don’t feel comfortable . Wennberg is now , just playing , not thinking ... it’s like people forget that Bjorkstrand was badly mismanaged for nearly 2 yrs , and he was a victim of this .. one of the lucky few that made it thru to the other side , and didn’t request a trade , or was run off . Yet I would argue he possibly is a 40g scorer if he escapes Torts ... he’s being badly mismanaged .

Huh. I have never heard any of this before. I just can't believe it.