GDT: Game 18: Canucks @ Coyotes - 8PM - FSAZ

[BUX7PHX]

Sorry bud but these comments are laughable. I don't listen to the so called pundits. Are the coyotes as good as the Penguins? No. Heck..they are not in the same league as the Sharks. But they have as much active talent as most of the teams in this league. In case you haven't noticed we are the worst team in the entire league. You're going to tell me that the Canucks, the Flames, the Hurricanes, etc have more talent than us. I don't think so. The Canucks were horrible last night. The only difference was we were worse. Another thing Boynton said last night I agree with: Hanzel plays when he feels like playing and he hasn't felt like playing much this year. That has nothing to do with talent; it has everything to do with desire and effort. We don't have a talent problem. We have a coaching problem.

Peyton Manning had talent, but look at his rookie year stats and record. Same goes for McDavid.

Our talent level has increased, yes. But we still aren't there quite yet. Connor Murphy is a great example of a high talent player who is still a 2nd tier type of player. Players like Maata and Matheson were taken right around Murphy, just in different draft years. It took Carlson 3 years to make an impact in Washington, and he has steadily improved ever since. It has taken Murphy about 4-5 years to make an impact, but it may not be the level of impact that Carlson has made.

I think we have to be real about our perceived talent level. We will get there, but it probably won't happen at the pace that people are expecting it to happen...

 

[kihekah19*]

A good first period with one horrible mistake. Why does OEL reverse? Does Smith communicate a reverse is in order, or does he simply not communicate?

Start the second strong, very strong.... only to let the Canucks turn it around in a heartbeat. Smith with a poor game in general, gets replaced. It's too late and too much has unraveled.

Progress is still being made here boys, it just needs to be consistent.

 

[kihekah19*]

Tippett refused to be negative or criticize Smith after the game. Stark contrast to how he treats Louie.

Correct, they are two different individuals. What works for one may not for the other. Having said that, he did say that it's nice that some of the boys are taking responsibility (Smith being one), it would be best if they took that responsibility on the ice.

 

[kihekah19*]

Does anyone seriously still think Tip should be our coach? I don't know who should replace him, but it is past time to be replaced. Boynton's criticism was spot on tonight. The only person he did not blame was Tip but he wanted to.

I didn't glean that he wanted to call out DT whatsoever. So there's that, but first and foremost, Boynton was one of the dumbest players to ever play the game at this level, so take his analysis with a salt lick.

I'm not saying he's always incorrect in his analysis, but he's none too bright. He seemed to be all worked up over OEL's gaff in the first, but gets a might emotional and looked no further than the gaff itself and the resulting consequence.

The only decent point he made was that of the need for consistency and he's spot on for it is a lack thereof and the lack of consistently executing not only hockey fundamentals, but the execution of systems play.

 

[kihekah19*]

2 soft goals/OEL turnover/DeAngelo missed/late coverage, 4 goals, Hot VC goalie = Game story.

We did outplay and outshoot VC but this is a game of mistakes, and we had 4 pretty bad ones that wound up in our net.

Shame that there is typically only three voices of reason hereabouts.

 

[_Del_]

You guys really watched that game and thought we outplayed Vancouver the entire game? Maybe the first period. Are we so bad that the ability to put together 20 minutes of a decent, but certainly not dominant, performance against the second worst team in the league is a moral victory now?

 

[kihekah19*]

You guys really watched that game and thought we outplayed Vancouver the entire game? Maybe the first period. Are we so bad that the ability to put together 20 minutes of a decent, but certainly not dominant, performance against the second worst team in the league is a moral victory now?

Cobra 427 didn't say the entire game (your words), we did outplay them often enough to win however and it was the mistakes that buried us. He also did not mention dominance.... again your words. Your term "moral victory" implies settling for less... yes? At some point the naysayers will have to get on one side of the fence or the other, in that they should decide if they want victory, or improvement.

 

[cobra427]

Sure, which is why all the smart analysts picked the Coyotes to win their division and be strong contenders for the Cup.



I agree, but most teams loaded with rookies and kids don't win titles, and prospects certainly don't contribute to wins.

DT has a history of winning when given the tools. Need to give the new GM the time to put the pieces together (2-3 yrs), if still under-performing, then replace DT.

Agreed. This is the plan for the next 2-3 years. It's not changing radically (coaching change) because we have a bad start. OEL/Hanzal/Ducliar/Murphy can and will be much better.

If anyone wants to go back and read the preseason predictions on this forum, the coyotes were predicted to be last or second to last in the western conference. Realistically, we are under achieving from a points perspective so far but not by much and it is still early in the season.

 

[kihekah19*]

Agreed. This is the plan for the next 2-3 years. It's not changing radically (coaching change) because we have a bad start. OEL/Hanzal/Ducliar/Murphy can and will be much better.

If anyone wants to go back and read the preseason predictions on this forum, the coyotes were predicted to be last or second to last in the western conference. Realistically, we are under achieving from a points perspective so far but not by much and it is still early in the season.

I'll admit, I let the pre-season success fool me. The team executed well.

It's unfortunate that that dumb dumb DT went and changed the system for the regular season.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I'll admit, I let the pre-season success fool me. The team executed well.

It's unfortunate that that dumb dumb DT went and changed the system for the regular season.

Just one quick question for you:

In the first 30 games last season how would you describe the creativity of Domi & Duclair?

Since that 30 games have we seen at all any of the creativity from those two?

The preseason our players playing were their own games, and as soon as the season started we are back to a full-blown stifled (spelling?) offense.

Btw, it was encouraging to see yesterday we actually skated it deep into the zone and then hit the 3rd man trailing a couple times...very nice to see and almost resulted in some goals had those guys not missed the net high or wide.

 

[cobra427]

Peyton Manning had talent, but look at his rookie year stats and record. Same goes for McDavid.

Our talent level has increased, yes. But we still aren't there quite yet. Connor Murphy is a great example of a high talent player who is still a 2nd tier type of player. Players like Maata and Matheson were taken right around Murphy, just in different draft years. It took Carlson 3 years to make an impact in Washington, and he has steadily improved ever since. It has taken Murphy about 4-5 years to make an impact, but it may not be the level of impact that Carlson has made.

I think we have to be real about our perceived talent level. We will get there, but it probably won't happen at the pace that people are expecting it to happen...

Agreed. Our talent is wrapped up in potential at the moment but not proven at the NHL level. You get a lot less time to make that first pass out of the D zone and the forward has little room to skate/pass/dump the puck at this level. I see little hesitations and puck bobbles all over the ice. The passes are not always tape to tape. passes are off just a little or a little behind the player. This leads to turnovers or dump and line changes. It is that sharpness we are missing(Execution). This is where DeAngelo shines, he makes quick and accurate decisions with the puck, looks like Yandle to me. He was just a little out of position on D for a goal, not horrible on his part, just one of the little things players need to fix.

Objectively, if your not a Tip hater, we outplayed VC last night, not by a ton, but we out played them. Their goalie was better and a few of our mistakes wound up in our net.

 

[kihekah19*]

Just one quick question for you:

In the first 30 games last season how would you describe the creativity of Domi & Duclair?

Since that 30 games have we seen at all any of the creativity from those two?

The preseason our players playing were their own games, and as soon as the season started we are back to a full-blown stifled (spelling?) offense.

Btw, it was encouraging to see yesterday we actually skated it deep into the zone and then hit the 3rd man trailing a couple times...very nice to see and almost resulted in some goals had those guys not missed the net high or wide.

Creative last year, thwarted this year. Difference being themselves and the competition. Are sophomore slumps blamed soley on the coaching in this forum? The difference between pre-season and regular season, was not the freewheeling self indulgent play of the lads, it was the competition and the lads falling off the chart in basic fundamental execution.

It was nice to see them take it deep and hit the trailer, but the ability to do that was opened up by earlier dumps with strong forechecking - where they actually went in hard on the dump.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Creative last year, thwarted this year. Difference being themselves and the competition. Are sophomore slumps blamed soley on the coaching in this forum? The difference between pre-season and regular season, was not the freewheeling self indulgent play of the lads, it was the competition and the lads falling off the chart in basic fundamental execution.

It was nice to see them take it deep and hit the trailer, but the ability to do that was opened up by earlier dumps with strong forechecking - where they actually went in hard on the dump.

I don't think the "preseason" was free-wheeling, but it had less structure than the regular season games for sure.

...and I agree that the good forecheck early helped, but it's not like we use that play as a regular in our arsenal. I rarely see them do that.

Yes, there were parts of yesterday where we played better, but the team doesn't play hard.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Creative last year, thwarted this year. Difference being themselves and the competition. Are sophomore slumps blamed soley on the coaching in this forum? The difference between pre-season and regular season, was not the freewheeling self indulgent play of the lads, it was the competition and the lads falling off the chart in basic fundamental execution.

It was nice to see them take it deep and hit the trailer, but the ability to do that was opened up by earlier dumps with strong forechecking - where they actually went in hard on the dump.

Teams facing us last year had no idea what to expect out of Domi or Duclair. They now have a full year of both tape and at least two games of experience playing against these two.

That is why the second year is always the hardest for a player and why I didn't think we would be quite at the same level we were last year.

I don't really pay much attention to preseason action - more about executing properly there and making sure players are in game shape and ready to go for the regular season.

 

[rt]

This is why player's coaches have a shelf life. Too much of a country club atmosphere. GMDM said as much. Look at the reaction when players are traded. Lots of whining and fit throwing. These guys are awfully chum with each other for never winning anything. Sometimes in sports, you just need new blood.

Yup. And we've turned the roster over three times and cleaned housebin the front office. The common thread is coaching. Time to go.

 

[kihekah19*]

I don't think the "preseason" was free-wheeling, but it had less structure than the regular season games for sure.

...and I agree that the good forecheck early helped, but it's not like we use that play as a regular in our arsenal. I rarely see them do that.

Yes, there were parts of yesterday where we played better, but the team doesn't play hard.

I threw "freewheeling" and "self indulgent" in just for fun!

They certainly don't do that enough - agreed, but I'd be absolutely shocked if it's because coaching frowns on it.

 

[Jakey53]

2 soft goals/OEL turnover/DeAngelo missed/late coverage, 4 goals, Hot VC goalie = Game story.

We did outplay and outshoot VC but this is a game of mistakes, and we had 4 pretty bad ones that wound up in our net.

Peyton Manning had talent, but look at his rookie year stats and record. Same goes for McDavid.

Our talent level has increased, yes. But we still aren't there quite yet. Connor Murphy is a great example of a high talent player who is still a 2nd tier type of player. Players like Maata and Matheson were taken right around Murphy, just in different draft years. It took Carlson 3 years to make an impact in Washington, and he has steadily improved ever since. It has taken Murphy about 4-5 years to make an impact, but it may not be the level of impact that Carlson has made.

I think we have to be real about our perceived talent level. We will get there, but it probably won't happen at the pace that people are expecting it to happen...

A good first period with one horrible mistake. Why does OEL reverse? Does Smith communicate a reverse is in order, or does he simply not communicate?

Start the second strong, very strong.... only to let the Canucks turn it around in a heartbeat. Smith with a poor game in general, gets replaced. It's too late and too much has unraveled.

Progress is still being made here boys, it just needs to be consistent.

I agree with you guys. I only watched the first two periods, but I thought we played a very good game but like you guys mentioned a couple of bad mistakes and a couple of bad goals and we were done.

 

[knich]

I didn't glean that he wanted to call out DT whatsoever. So there's that, but first and foremost, Boynton was one of the dumbest players to ever play the game at this level, so take his analysis with a salt lick.

I'm not saying he's always incorrect in his analysis, but he's none too bright. He seemed to be all worked up over OEL's gaff in the first, but gets a might emotional and looked no further than the gaff itself and the resulting consequence.

The only decent point he made was that of the need for consistency and he's spot on for it is a lack thereof and the lack of consistently executing not only hockey fundamentals, but the execution of systems play.

I was not big fan of Boynton when he was a player. But to call him dumb is a bit hyperbole. Boynts played 11 seasons and was a I think top ten draft pick. How many dumb players you know who played 11 seasons?

 

[knich]

Peyton Manning had talent, but look at his rookie year stats and record. Same goes for McDavid.

Our talent level has increased, yes. But we still aren't there quite yet. Connor Murphy is a great example of a high talent player who is still a 2nd tier type of player. Players like Maata and Matheson were taken right around Murphy, just in different draft years. It took Carlson 3 years to make an impact in Washington, and he has steadily improved ever since. It has taken Murphy about 4-5 years to make an impact, but it may not be the level of impact that Carlson has made.

I think we have to be real about our perceived talent level. We will get there, but it probably won't happen at the pace that people are expecting it to happen...

My point was that this team is underachieving. I didn't say it was even a playoff contender. There are lots of problems that go beyond the coaching but IMO coaching is the biggest problem. Still waiting for someone to explain when poor results are ever the coach's fault?

 

[knich]

I agree with you guys. I only watched the first two periods, but I thought we played a very good game but like you guys mentioned a couple of bad mistakes and a couple of bad goals and we were done.

Are you guys watching these games on tv? I say that because sometimes on tv you can't see the effort level like you can in person. I can tell you within first 10 min of every game if the players plan on competing each game.

 

[XX]

Are you guys watching these games on tv? I say that because sometimes on tv you can't see the effort level like you can in person. I can tell you within first 10 min of every game if the players plan on competing each game.

This forum is pretty split and you're talking to the side that generally has a hard time finding faults with the performance of the team or the coaching staff.

The country club has set in. Firmly. That's a terminal diagnosis for a coach. I'm just concerned about how much will be ruined on the way to DT being let go.

 

[Jakey53]

Agreed. Our talent is wrapped up in potential at the moment but not proven at the NHL level. You get a lot less time to make that first pass out of the D zone and the forward has little room to skate/pass/dump the puck at this level. I see little hesitations and puck bobbles all over the ice. The passes are not always tape to tape. passes are off just a little or a little behind the player. This leads to turnovers or dump and line changes. It is that sharpness we are missing(Execution). This is where DeAngelo shines, he makes quick and accurate decisions with the puck, looks like Yandle to me. He was just a little out of position on D for a goal, not horrible on his part, just one of the little things players need to fix.

Objectively, if your not a Tip hater, we outplayed VC last night, not by a ton, but we out played them. Their goalie was better and a few of our mistakes wound up in our net.

Teams facing us last year had no idea what to expect out of Domi or Duclair. They now have a full year of both tape and at least two games of experience playing against these two.

That is why the second year is always the hardest for a player and why I didn't think we would be quite at the same level we were last year.

I don't really pay much attention to preseason action - more about executing properly there and making sure players are in game shape and ready to go for the regular season.

You guys nailed it.

 

[Jakey53]

This forum is pretty split and you're talking to the side that generally has a hard time finding faults with the performance of the team or the coaching staff.

The country club has set in. Firmly. That's a terminal diagnosis for a coach. I'm just concerned about how much will be ruined on the way to DT being let go.

And your on the side that points fingers at DT for everything. How has the country club set in when 8 players have two or less years experience in the NHL, and another 3 or 4 that weren't even here last year?

 

[Jakey53]

Are you guys watching these games on tv? I say that because sometimes on tv you can't see the effort level like you can in person. I can tell you within first 10 min of every game if the players plan on competing each game.

Most home games we go, missed the Canuck's game and of course watch the road games on TV. Maybe asked the DT haters it they go to games?

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

And the wheel of excuses keeps on spinning.