Post-Game Talk: GAME #18: Canucks 3, Flames 1 (Hughes, Myers, Sutter)

[M2Beezy]

Saw the third period from a bar screen with NO sound and couldnt CONTIRBUTE to the GDT, so some things:

1 Did Juolevi hit someone, then Maganpiane had a chance?

2 Thought Pettersson bounced in the Myers shot

3 Kinda exciting, too bad no pts for Hoggy but super excited for the Hog.

Man I love this team

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I thought Calgary was down a couple forwards as well last night, forcing them to change their lines somewhat and basically run with three lines.

Kudos to Green though for recognizing the mismatch with Lucic out there, and getting Petterson Boeser and Miller out there for the winning goal.

Calgary lost Backlund for the game, and Lindholm for a good length of time as well, although he returned.

 

[I am toxic]

Calgary lost Backlund for the game, and Lindholm for a good length of time as well, although he returned.

Yeah, imagine the Canucks losing a couple of centres for much of the game.

Anyway, you take it and run.

I only listened to the game, but would be curious if the Canucks forwards are dropping lower for outlet passes indicating Green has changed parts of his system. Hopefully the extra practice time is allowing for a decent system to be implemented.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Thumbs up to Green here for having an answer..The team played a more structured, cautious game (a lot of fans called the game boring) , but whatever it takes at this point...They won last night, and if the team buys in...we should see better results.

It was fun watching Hogz last night, ..He always makes something happen out there, even though the finish isn't always there..also, good to see Juolevi getting more comfortable, and gaining confidence (nice hit on Tkachuk , although he took himself out of position a bit which led to a scoring opportunity the other way).

If not for the wall of Marky, the score could have been a laugher for the Canucks.

Expect a reenergized , and focused Flames team tomorrow night.

 

[Bad Goalie]

You always want to get value out of players, especially young players, in any way you can. With that being said, could Gaudette hack it at C in the AHL? Not saying send him down but if in the future he just can't stay in the lineup I can't help but think that down the road he could be of service as a strong centre at that level. Not like the Comets have needed that for years or anything...

It's a great theory, but when he was here briefly over the course of 2 seasons he didn't do a lot to help his wings. He was a do it yourself bull type puck hog. His assists came as a result of his own shots ending up as rebounds for someone else or a dish to someone when he totally ran out of any other options. That was much the same way as Graovac played center here. Not exactly helping wings develop their games due to his passing and working with them. I am also not sure if his ego could take that kind of role, but on a 1-way making the same as he would in Vancouver vs being cut loose with no guarantees from the rest of the NHL, he might be willing.

 

[Diversification]

Thumbs up to Green here for having an answer..The team played a more structured, cautious game (a lot of fans called the game boring) , but whatever it takes at this point...They won last night, and if the team buys in...we should see better results.
...

Structured = ability to win games in the regular season consistently. I've been waiting for them to play this way for literally years!

I thought (wrongly) that they would apply the lessons learned from the bubble playoff and shore up their D accordingly to start the season. But instead, it took an existential losing streak for Green to acquiesce. Realistically, with the guns we have, this is the way we should always be playing and rely on our scoring depth to edge out the opposition.

If they play a consistent structured game, there is absolutely no reason why this roster can't comfortably qualify for the playoffs year-in year-out. Then further improvements as our bad contracts slough off in 2 years.

 

[Samzilla]

Canucks win this game proving once and for all that Benning is the man for the job.

hehehe

 

[B-rock]

Virtanen doesnt even seem quick anymore, what does he do in the gym when he’s apparently been working out extensively

Agreed, he seems slower. His straight line speed is still dangerous but he never has the confidence to try to beat anyone with it. Instead he does the ‘round the net’ loop and usually that’s the end of it.
He’s just not an asset out there. He doesn’t play with any snarl anymore and every play literally dies on his stick or more often he wants nothing to do with the puck and gets rid of it immediately also killing the play cuz he just throws it away.

I’d love if he could turn it around but he just doesn’t seem to have that confidence DGAF factor that good players have. From day one he’s played afraid to make a mistake instead of just going for it.
Saying that he’ll probably go on a tear now. Every time I criticize some player on here they seem to turn it around for awhile.

 

[I am toxic]

Structured = ability to win games in the regular season consistently. I've been waiting for them to play this way for literally years!

I thought (wrongly) that they would apply the lessons learned from the bubble playoff and shore up their D accordingly to start the season. But instead, it took an existential losing streak for Green to acquiesce. Realistically, with the guns we have, this is the way we should always be playing and rely on our scoring depth to edge out the opposition.

If they play a consistent structured game, there is absolutely no reason why this roster can't comfortably qualify for the playoffs year-in year-out. Then further improvements as our bad contracts slough off in 2 years.

If they play a structured game, they are a tier above the Detroits and Ottawas and a bubble team, with current weaknesses in Calgary's character/C position, Edmonton's D and goaltending, the Cali teams needing to rebuild, they should be in the playoffs.

However, further improvements in 2 years are not happening. Take one look at the ages of Edler, Myers and Schmidt. Then take a look at Miller's age and contract status. The team will continue to be a bubble team well into Hughes and Petey's mid-20's.

Our pipeline consists of Pods.

The only home-grown talent since Marky that has reliably made the team came from the SHL, or the NCAA. The mismanagement in Vancouver quickly decimated what good had been going on in Utica.

We just had a draft where our first pick was in the third round. Without the Miller trade, we would have had a lottery pick. That's what Miller cost us.

John Weisbrod and Jim Benning.

2014-2021.

The Lost Years. Trilogy One and Trilogy Two.

Mediocrity Purgatory. Trilogies 3 and 4.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Thumbs up to Green here for having an answer..The team played a more structured, cautious game (a lot of fans called the game boring) , but whatever it takes at this point...They won last night, and if the team buys in...we should see better results.

It was fun watching Hogz last night, ..He always makes something happen out there, even though the finish isn't always there..also, good to see Juolevi getting more comfortable, and gaining confidence (nice hit on Tkachuk , although he took himself out of position a bit which led to a scoring opportunity the other way).

If not for the wall of Marky, the score could have been a laugher for the Canucks.

Expect a reenergized , and focused Flames team tomorrow night.

"The team played a more structured, cautious game (a lot of fans called the game boring)"
Green at his best coaches this type of game. When you here the word "boring" associated with Green his team is playing a way they can win.

Boring was the most common term uttered about the peak New Jersey Devils. It may have been boring, but I would bet my ability to post on this site that Vancouver fans would be tickled pink with 3 Stanley Cups.

I'm sure there would have bitching here at times but they would have delighted as GM Lou Lamoriello engineered lineups for 3 Stanley Cups under 3 different coaches all of whom are known as hockey greats: Jacques Lemaire in 1995, 1 under Larry Robinson in 200, and 1 under Pat Burns in 2003. All 3 coaches are in the Hockey Hall Of Fame.

All 3 coached a very similar system that they had expressed the willingness to use when hired that was strong defensively, had good goaltending, and timely scoring created by counter punching off the good D. Most use the term "trap" and it's so boring, but so effective when done correctly. 3 boring Stanley Cups. Ask how many Devils fans would have sacrificed those cups to be more exciting. Canucks fans would have accepted the results in a minute. Now they whine anytime the 'Nucks appear to be playing boring. If you have a system that wins and produces the ultimate goal of Lord Stanley's Cup most of the whiners would be drowned out by the multitudes in celebration.

 

[EpochLink]

Thumbs up to Green here for having an answer..The team played a more structured, cautious game (a lot of fans called the game boring) , but whatever it takes at this point...They won last night, and if the team buys in...we should see better results.

It was fun watching Hogz last night, ..He always makes something happen out there, even though the finish isn't always there..also, good to see Juolevi getting more comfortable, and gaining confidence (nice hit on Tkachuk , although he took himself out of position a bit which led to a scoring opportunity the other way).

If not for the wall of Marky, the score could have been a laugher for the Canucks.

Expect a reenergized , and focused Flames team tomorrow night.

Green got that ever vote of confidence from ownership, he’s here until he f***s up again.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

"The team played a more structured, cautious game (a lot of fans called the game boring)"
Green at his best coaches this type of game. When you here the word "boring" associated with Green his team is playing a way they can win.

Boring was the most common term uttered about the peak New Jersey Devils. It may have been boring, but I would bet my ability to post on this site that Vancouver fans would be tickled pink with 3 Stanley Cups.

I'm sure there would have bitching here at times but they would have delighted as GM Lou Lamoriello engineered lineups for 3 Stanley Cups under 3 different coaches all of whom are known as hockey greats: Jacques Lemaire in 1995, 1 under Larry Robinson in 200, and 1 under Pat Burns in 2003. All 3 coaches are in the Hockey Hall Of Fame.

All 3 coached a very similar system that they had expressed the willingness to use when hired that was strong defensively, had good goaltending, and timely scoring created by counter punching off the good D. Most use the term "trap" and it's so boring, but so effective when done correctly. 3 boring Stanley Cups. Ask how many Devils fans would have sacrificed those cups to be more exciting. Canucks fans would have accepted the results in a minute. Now they whine anytime the 'Nucks appear to be playing boring. If you have a system that wins and produces the ultimate goal of Lord Stanley's Cup most of the whiners would be drowned out by the multitudes in celebration.

I didnt find the game boring..but reading through various GDT's there seemed to be a lot of comments about it being 'boring'

Heck..whatever to takes.

 

[MS]

I didnt find the game boring..but reading through various GDT's there seemed to be a lot of comments about it being 'boring'

Heck..whatever to takes.

I thought it was really boring up until we scored to make it 1-0 and Calgary responded quickly. From that point it was excellent.

Prior to that there was just a ton of perimeter play and perimeter shots and little happening of any real note.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I thought it was really boring up until we scored to make it 1-0 and Calgary responded quickly. From that point it was excellent.

Prior to that there was just a ton of perimeter play and perimeter shots and little happening of any real note.

I also glanced through some of the Calgary puck GDT, where they were accusing Green of implementing a boring ,trap game.

 

[EpochLink]

I also glanced through some of the Calgary puck GDT, where they were accusing Green of implementing a boring ,trap game.

CalgaryPuck? Or HF Flames?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

CalgaryPuck? Or HF Flames?

CalgaryPuck...

There's actually a contingent of Canuck fans on there.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

Agreed, he seems slower. His straight line speed is still dangerous but he never has the confidence to try to beat anyone with it. Instead he does the ‘round the net’ loop and usually that’s the end of it.
He’s just not an asset out there. He doesn’t play with any snarl anymore and every play literally dies on his stick or more often he wants nothing to do with the puck and gets rid of it immediately also killing the play cuz he just throws it away.

I’d love if he could turn it around but he just doesn’t seem to have that confidence DGAF factor that good players have. From day one he’s played afraid to make a mistake instead of just going for it.
Saying that he’ll probably go on a tear now. Every time I criticize some player on here they seem to turn it around for awhile.

As a goalie I’m always watching the goalies, but last night decided to really focus on Jake. Good lord, he treats the puck like it causes gonorrhea. Either dumps it into the corner and doesn’t get it back, or as you said just goes round the net and turns it over.
There’s nothing to his game. No fight. He’s just there.

 

[iceburg]

I also glanced through some of the Calgary puck GDT, where they were accusing Green of implementing a boring ,trap game.

46 shots was not boring.

 

[Diversification]

If they play a structured game, they are a tier above the Detroits and Ottawas and a bubble team, with current weaknesses in Calgary's character/C position, Edmonton's D and goaltending, the Cali teams needing to rebuild, they should be in the playoffs.

However, further improvements in 2 years are not happening. Take one look at the ages of Edler, Myers and Schmidt. Then take a look at Miller's age and contract status. The team will continue to be a bubble team well into Hughes and Petey's mid-20's.

Our pipeline consists of Pods.

The only home-grown talent since Marky that has reliably made the team came from the SHL, or the NCAA. The mismanagement in Vancouver quickly decimated what good had been going on in Utica.

We just had a draft where our first pick was in the third round. Without the Miller trade, we would have had a lottery pick. That's what Miller cost us.

John Weisbrod and Jim Benning.

2014-2021.

The Lost Years. Trilogy One and Trilogy Two.

Mediocrity Purgatory. Trilogies 3 and 4.

I guess we'll have to disagree here. A structured system can absorb 'bad' players while a more wide open style will expose the same players. Put Edler, Myers and Juolevi, who all have their warts, in an organized defense and the difference is like night and day. Look at our 3rd and 4th line. Specifically, look at how they weren't caved-in 5 on 5 on the regular. Look at how they generated shots for and spent a considerable amount of time in the Calgary end. Look at how Beagle seemed to magically come alive last night.

That's a result of structure. Namely, 3 man units that clogged up the neutral zone and 5 man units tightly spaced to facilitate zone clearances.

So, yes. Our cap structure sucks and I would very much like Benning to be dispatched with yesterday. But even with that, the capspace we will have 2 years from now will allow us to shore up a position or two (probably quality bottom 6 depth and a top4 defender)and a combination of offensive depth and defensive structure will carry the rest. That's the reality of a cap. No cup hopeful will be wart-free.

 

[Scorvat]

The 1st was mostly perimeter shots that the Canucks were bombarding the Flames with. Our forecheck started to force turnovers and gave us alot of scoring chances in the last 40 min.

Our wingers are no longer running off to la-la land and are actually supporting the breakout which limited the turnovers against. Zone entries still look awkward but their was a greater emphasis in attacking the middle which allowed for more shots and productive zone time.

The most concerning issue at the moment is the lack of odd man rushes which were a big part of Green's offence last year, it has completely dried up this year

 

[EpochLink]

CalgaryPuck...

There's actually a contingent of Canuck fans on there.

There’s a ton of Canucks fans in Calgary.
I got along with them fine.

 

[BruinsJoe]

About virtanen i'm asking because some rumors that the bruins are interested about that bum

 

[I am toxic]

I guess we'll have to disagree here. A structured system can absorb 'bad' players while a more wide open style will expose the same players. Put Edler, Myers and Juolevi, who all have their warts, in an organized defense and the difference is like night and day. Look at our 3rd and 4th line. Specifically, look at how they weren't caved-in 5 on 5 on the regular. Look at how they generated shots for and spent a considerable amount of time in the Calgary end. Look at how Beagle seemed to magically come alive last night.

That's a result of structure. Namely, 3 man units that clogged up the neutral zone and 5 man units tightly spaced to facilitate zone clearances.

So, yes. Our cap structure sucks and I would very much like Benning to be dispatched with yesterday. But even with that, the capspace we will have 2 years from now will allow us to shore up a position or two (probably quality bottom 6 depth and a top4 defender)and a combination of offensive depth and defensive structure will carry the rest. That's the reality of a cap. No cup hopeful will be wart-free.

2 years from now, Hughes and Petey will be in the beginning of their deals, or ending of bridge deals.

2 years from now, Edler is 37. He's done. Myers is 33, long past his prime and still taking up $6m. Schmidt is 31 going on 32, also past his prime.

I agree that we could get a top4 defender. However, our defense - which looks good when playing with structure against a weakened Calgary team missing two of its centers for much of the game and playing without structure - will be no better 2 years from now, realistically it will be worse.

2 years from now, Horvat and Miller's contracts are up. Miller will be 29 going on 30, entering the last of him prime at best.

2 years from now, Demko should be slightly better, our young forwards (Hogs/Petey/Boeser) will be slightly better, but our older forwards (Horvat/Miller)will be the same or worse or gone.

2 years from now, our D will be as bad or worse.

Right now, we are at best a bubble team.

We aren't going to be a contender 2 years from now, if everything goes right (for the Canucks! ha ha ha) we might be a contender 5 years from now.

 

[M2Beezy]

I also glanced through some of the Calgary puck GDT, where they were accusing Green of implementing a boring ,trap game.

So maybe the trap was a good way to win then no? Is it POSSIBLE that Coach Green is learning?????

 

[Diversification]

2 years from now, Hughes and Petey will be in the beginning of their deals, or ending of bridge deals.

2 years from now, Edler is 37. He's done. Myers is 33, long past his prime and still taking up $6m. Schmidt is 31 going on 32, also past his prime.

I agree that we could get a top4 defender. However, our defense - which looks good when playing with structure against a weakened Calgary team missing two of its centers for much of the game and playing without structure - will be no better 2 years from now, realistically it will be worse.

2 years from now, Horvat and Miller's contracts are up. Miller will be 29 going on 30, entering the last of him prime at best.

2 years from now, Demko should be slightly better, our young forwards (Hogs/Petey/Boeser) will be slightly better, but our older forwards (Horvat/Miller)will be the same or worse or gone.

2 years from now, our D will be as bad or worse.

Right now, we are at best a bubble team.

We aren't going to be a contender 2 years from now, if everything goes right (for the Canucks! ha ha ha) we might be a contender 5 years from now.

Okay, here's how I see it, and I'll allow that it isn't roster-centric argument: Teams go through a cycle of progression. Most teams eventually reach bubble status for a while, some become perennial playoff teams and a few reach contender status. With few exceptions, they progress step-by-step through each phase, with teams whittled away en route to becoming contender.

I think you'll agree that we are currently a bubble team. Where we differ is that I think with better coaching, we can become a perennial playoff team this year or the next. You think we need better coaching just to stay a bubble team.

The distinction between a bubble team and perennial playoff team, IMHO, is just a matter of consistency. It requires that we achieve a level of consistent high level play that ~60% of the time we come out of it with at least 1 pt. I happen to think we're not that far off from there. And I say this because with the personnel in our top 6 and 3 or 4 of our starting 6 dmen and our starting goaltending, the pieces are in place to allow that to happen. Yes, even with substandard depth we currently have. And that's because structured defense covers for weaknesses in secondary positions, at least in the regular season.

Now, whether we ever become a bona fide contender, that's an altogether different question. I have my doubts. It will require that Pod hits as a top 6 winger or an elite matchup 3C. It will require that Rathbone can develop into a top 4 cost-controlled puck mover. It will require that Woo and probably one more d prospect can step in as a #6 and a #7. It will require that someone like Costmar can slot in and play 8-10 minutes a night as a cheap 4C. And it will require most of all that Demko can take the next step and become a top 10 goalie. That, along with astute signings to flesh out our bottom 6 and another dman and maybe it can happen. Maybe.