GDT: Game 17: at St. Louis Blues | 11/14/15 | 7:00 PM | He's BACCCCCKKKKKKKK

[Toews2Bickell]

I mean Tik has more skill than any other replacement on the roster. He was a first round pick so he's not a complete bum. Give him more than a cup of coffee to see what he's got. Rather try to find him a role on this team than let him be Panarin's caddy all year. That might come into play with signing Panarin long term.

 

[BrianE]

Toews was an elite player uplifting the likes of Troy Brouwer and Viktor Stalberg on the top line while Saad was still riding buses with Saginaw.

The loss of Saad is not the reason Toews is struggling. Toews is the reason Toews is struggling. Even when the points aren't coming easy for him, he's always been a dominant possession player. This season, thus far, he's been an above-average possession player.

Whoever is on his wing is a complementary piece, at best. Interchangable. It comes down to his ability to get back to his usual standards.

I think he will.

Yes. JD agree and good points but Saad has a much better skill set offensively and defensively than Brouwer or Stalberg would ever have and that also makes Toews much better.

 

[JaegerDice]

I have no problem with Tiko in for Mashinter, its just not likely to provide any production. Don't compare him to Hossa, Hossa has history on his side. At some point Hossa, Toews, and the first line will produce.

I'm not comparing him to Hossa, I'm simply saying going on points and +/- is a flawed reason to sub in Mashinter for Tikhonov.

There's also the question of what you're expecting from a 3rd line player.

Frankly, the 3rd line has only been a legit 'scoring' line twice in the last 3 years. Once, in 2013, when Bickel Shaw and Stalberg were shooting way above their pay grade, and last year in the playoffs when we had two top 6 forwards and TT playing as a 3rd line.

One was arguably an anomaly, the other was a cap impossibility made possible by a well-timed injury.

In 2014, we traded for Kris ****ing Versteeg (a broken-down version at that) in hopes of kick-starting the 3rd line. It didn't happen, obviously.

What we actually need from the 3rd line is bum-slaying. A line that can match up against the 3rd or 4th lines of most other teams and come out even or better. Tikhonov can certainly handle that, and more over, he can do it playing more than 5 minutes a night.

 

[BobbyJet]

Toews is competing hard, like he always does. Did you doubters notice Backes out there (except for the cheap shot of course)? That's no coincidence. Toews was good and we win a 4-pointer. That's the bottom line.

 

[Hawks818]

I wasn't a math major but don't think its close to half way point right now.

You said you were waiting until March for him to get good. That would be way past half the season. The condescension isn't needed.

 

[TLEH]

Toews is competing hard, like he always does. Did you doubters notice Backes out there (except for the cheap shot of course)? That's no coincidence. Toews was good and we win a 4-pointer. That's the bottom line.

he makes 10.5 mil, i need more than compete

 

[JaegerDice]

Yes. JD agree and good points but Saad has a much better skill set offensively and defensively than Brouwer or Stalberg would ever have and that also makes Toews much better.

Obviously I agree that Saad is a better player than Brouwer or Stalberg and Toews benefitted from that, but I think Saad got more of a boost out of the combination than Toews did, and the WOWY numbers back that up.

Toews simply isn't playing well by his own standards. You could stick Kane on his RW and Ovechkin on his LW right now, and the line still wouldn't be as great as it could be simple because Toews needs to get his game back to his normal level (or better, if Hossa is in fact in decline).

 

[BobbyJet]

Morin can be a third/fourth line player and McNeil started slow but was good last year. Again I am not saying play on the first line, I am talking 3rd/4th line.

It seems to be a matter of time before a different 3rd liner gets the call. Could it be Morin next, or Mcneil, finally?

 

[BK]

he makes 10.5 mil, i need more than compete

If you don't see his doing more than just competing then you need to look harder. He does a lot of **** that doesn't always show up on the score sheet.

He does need to be better for this team to achieve its goals but lets not act like he is some random player out there. He is still making a difference.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Just put Shaw at 3RW and let Tik play 4RW. Done. Morin or McNeil just not the answer. Would be nice if Bickell could play even at a $2mil level. He seems content just collecting checks to ride a bus in the A.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

I mean Tik has more skill than any other replacement on the roster. He was a first round pick so he's not a complete bum. Give him more than a cup of coffee to see what he's got. Rather try to find him a role on this team than let him be Panarin's caddy all year. That might come into play with signing Panarin long term.

So was Kyle Beach

 

[Toews2Bickell]

So was Kyle Beach

I anticipated that response.

 

[JaegerDice]

he makes 10.5 mil, i need more than compete

He's exactly 3 points behind his point total last year in the same number of games...

It's the same story every year. He starts slow production-wise, then heats up in the 2nd half of the year.... right around the time Kane's cooling down and the Art Ross talk is dying out.

I'm far more concerned about his significantly lower-than-usual possession numbers than I am his production numbers. Frankly, given how much fewer shot attempts and shots he's getting, the point difference from last year is negligible at best.

 

[BobbyJet]

he makes 10.5 mil, i need more than compete

You and others obviously underrate the defensive (as well as the offensive) role of the #1 center for the Blackhawks. They are equally as important, especially so, because of our dynamite 2nd line.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

I anticipated that response.

Hahaha. Im sorry. I agreed with the rest of your post. I just had to.

 

[BK]

He's exactly 3 points behind his point total last year in the same number of games...

It's the same story every year. He starts slow production-wise, then heats up in the 2nd half of the year.... right around the time Kane's cooling down and the Art Ross talk is dying out.

I'm far more concerned about his significantly lower-than-usual possession numbers than I am his production numbers. Frankly, given how much fewer shot attempts and shots he's getting, the point difference from last year is negligible at best.

The possession numbers are driven by a few factors that are out of his control. Hossa starting slow does not help and until they figure out who to put with them (I think it is Dano) then they will be lower. I will say again I think Dano-Toews-TT should be attempted while moving Hossa to the 3rd line to get his game going and even out our d game. Not Having Keith hurts as well.

 

[JaegerDice]

Just put Shaw at 3RW and let Tik play 4RW. Done. Morin or McNeil just not the answer. Would be nice if Bickell could play even at a $2mil level. He seems content just collecting checks to ride a bus in the A.

Frankly, I think the 3rd line is in limbo until Q gets over whatever is keeping him from playing TT at center. Kero has been fine, but his ceiling is pretty clear and you don't even need a ladder to reach it. It's worth seeing what TT can do from the pivot on a bum-slayer line.

Ultimately, I think the 4th line will return to what it was. Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw. Yeah, they had a rough stretch, but you can't throw out how good they've proven they can be based on that. Eventually they'll shake back down into those roles again, once all the messages have been sent and what-not.

I think Tik works on the 3rd line. He generates a ton, even if he doesn't have the hands to finish everything. If he has TT threading him passes that will help, that just leaves the 3LW (or 3RW) in question. Maybe call somebody up.

 

[BobbyJet]

more on Toews

And not to forget that Toews got a nice lick in on Backes. That's been a long time coming, and it was a perfectly legal hit from my observation. Backes was not a factor in the game afterward. The game within the game.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Frankly, I think the 3rd line is in limbo until Q gets over whatever is keeping him from playing TT at center. Kero has been fine, but his ceiling is pretty clear and you don't even need a ladder to reach it. It's worth seeing what TT can do from the pivot on a bum-slayer line.

Ultimately, I think the 4th line will return to what it was. Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw. Yeah, they had a rough stretch, but you can't throw out how good they've proven they can be based on that. Eventually they'll shake back down into those roles again, once all the messages have been sent and what-not.

I think Tik works on the 3rd line. He generates a ton, even if he doesn't have the hands to finish everything. If he has TT threading him passes that will help, that just leaves the 3LW (or 3RW) in question. Maybe call somebody up.

I agree with most of this. If Kero sticks then I see his ceiling being '13 version of Frolik. But we really don't need that at this point. We need creative players to put with TT. I think Tik can at least hold his own. Vinny is probably next up in pecking order for high ceiling offensive talent in the system.

 

[Hawks818]

Frankly, I think the 3rd line is in limbo until Q gets over whatever is keeping him from playing TT at center. Kero has been fine, but his ceiling is pretty clear and you don't even need a ladder to reach it. It's worth seeing what TT can do from the pivot on a bum-slayer line.

Ultimately, I think the 4th line will return to what it was. Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw. Yeah, they had a rough stretch, but you can't throw out how good they've proven they can be based on that. Eventually they'll shake back down into those roles again, once all the messages have been sent and what-not.

I think Tik works on the 3rd line. He generates a ton, even if he doesn't have the hands to finish everything. If he has TT threading him passes that will help, that just leaves the 3LW (or 3RW) in question. Maybe call somebody up.

TT wasn't very good at center earlier this season. Why do you think that would change?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I think TT is a long term winger. Ideally taking Hossa's spot in a year or two. Would be nice to have Robby Fabbri right about now. Altho I haven't given up on Schmaltz at all. Just the time frame doesn't match with the window and I'm not too confident in finding internal fix at this point.

 

[BobbyJet]

I think also that this needs to be mentioned: Rozy had a dam good game, especially considering it was his first action since his injury last season.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Dano with under 6 minutes ice time, the lowest on the team. Even less then Mashinter. I said it before, Q has some issue with him. We have seen Q get funny with other young guys, he needs to let this kid play. I get the feeling it won't be long before Dano is sent down and Bickell is back........

 

[Salvaged Ship]

I think also that this needs to be mentioned: Rozy had a dam good game, especially considering it was his first action since his injury last season.

Much better then Svedberg

 

[hawksfan50]

OK on Toews....leads the NHL in face-off wins...no complaints on that bit of excellence. ..But for $10.5million ...well you do not pay that just fir face-offs...Tonight ...again...he could muster just 1 shot on goal...yes he got an assist and finished +2...but it could just as easily been -1, because 3 of tge worst shifts with extended time in our zone were with him and Hossa out there and both stunk on thise possession fests fir tge Blues and had they cashed in they could have had 3 goals on those shifts...then he gets a break-aaways with not enough speed to get in alone because he was caught and the chance muffled because of him not being able to get to the net alone...Coupled with Snot winni g many battles for pucks and STL thwarting g him by successful checking...he again presents as not much of an actual scoring threat..he 8s being handled..and so he is doing other things like fighting sticking up for guys and taking penalties..But for $10.5 million you expect scoring return..to score goals you need to shoot..1 shot a game and not so good or meh possession stats indicate if we are honest that he himself is not playing well..

AS TO HOSSA ...he still generates more shots than Toews but or course can no longer beat goalies with his shot...he now loses puck battles as much as he wins them and his d-zone play is woeful in some shifts as he saves energy for when he can get transition the other way...so now he us cheTi g in the 2-way effort because he simply is older and cannot do what he could in his younger years..When he dies get break-aaways he still cannot finish.. Now it is true that none of the LW'S on the line can do what Saad brought to the line ...and so we cannot fault tge LW's for not producing much there...We can point out that Hossa is in decline but not fault him for that. ..because age us age...We can fault Toews for his own play fall g off his own standard... (except for face-offs)...May e not so much on assists because if his wingers have fallen off required scoring standards that is not his fault...but as fir not scoring goals himself we Can and Must fault him...first for not getting g enough shots on goal and second for not getting enough grade A chances to score ...and finally for simply not scoring g any kind of goals to tge extent required of a $10.5 million per year expenditure...This means goals from clear shots ...goals from deflection. ...goals from scrambles at the net ...
goals from 2 on 1s. ..goals frome break-aaways. ..and we Can and Must criticize him for not hustling to check had enough t9 win possesion in both ends...There is no way he is playing well..And even 8f his linemates also are not playing well or not impacting...still he himself must show his A game in 2-way effort and in offensive production...especially goals ...on these he has c9ntrol.of his own efforts and his own "abikity"...which are showing g as much below his normal standards 9f prior years so far.