GDT: Game 15: Coyotes @ Flames - 7PM - FSAZ+ - So you're losing to the Coyotes bingo

[Jakey53]

You are forgetting that Kessel gets tougher matchups, and Keller is not a good fit for him either. Garland has been playing mostly with Schmaltz as well, that combo has been great. We thought Keller/kessel would have that chemistry. Kessels play away from the puck has been fine, he just hasn't had many goals yet. Once he starts scoring you guys will all of a sudden think he is engaged, playing great away from the puck, etc..

Kessel has been solid until the last two or three games. He has been brutal in those games, and as far as tougher matchups, he has had those his whole career, and with RT juggling lines, he has had some easier match ups. Kessel's number is 81, not 18. You are probably getting the numbers mixed up.

 

[BUX7PHX]

If we are being real, remember that Kessel was on the Penguins 2nd line with Malkin. Crosby and Hornqvist were the center and right wing on the top line. So, he goes from being on the theoretical 2nd best line of the Penguins to the top line of the Coyotes. Obviously, Schmaltz, Dvorak, and Garland are doing more points-wise, but before the season, if you had to go on names on the jersey alone, your option would be to limit Kessel, Keller, and whomever is centering their line.

I've been largely supportive of Chayka, and the times that I wasn't (especially during the Hayton draft) he's proven me wrong. I think we're lucky to have this smug, self-satisfied young Wendy's franchisee in charge of the team.

I asked this question in one of the game day threads - does anyone really doubt what Chayka has done at this point? People are so misguided in this idea that he trades because he simply likes to. The trades that he has done, whether successful or not, have a clear goal to them. For Domi, it was about getting someone who could put the puck in the back of the net, as opposed to being a playmaker. That was probably the one trade that he has some regret on, but you can even tell in his interview that he thought highly of Max, but had to make a hockey deal. This wasn't done because a player wasn't improving at the rate we were hoping for, like Strome.

This is the first year that every piece of this team has the Chayka stamp of approval on it. In 16-17 and 17-18 season, he still had a decent share of Maloney era players that were good, but maybe not the most complete fits for the roster. Since the trade for Schmaltz, we are 39-26-10, which would basically be good for what, 88 points in 75 games, or a .586 P%. That would be a 96 point season pace. My question would be what players are you massively disappointed in that we kept over others?

I think his vision has been fantastic, even while people assumed that we lost trades or didn't give enough rope/leash to certain young players. Maybe the truth is that he has done a good job of identifying players who may not pan out to their expected value and replaced with players that have a greater shot at being more effective over the long haul. Domi not withstanding, but that's the only bad mark on a report card where our GM knew he was giving up a lot of value in Domi.

 

[rt]

Craig Morgan is always hinting but never expanding on the idea that Tie Domi was a huge pain in the ass and was a major driving force in getting Max traded. That Tie interview that came out in an article after the trade certainly seems to support what Craig regularly hints at. In the interview, Tie calls the Canadiens a "real" team and Montreal a "real" market. He made some other comments I don't remember as well, the general point of which (if I recall correctly) was that Max needs the big stage and the high pressure in order to be at his best. I got the impression that he felt Max was wasted here and had no reason to take the next step here.

I'd be mad except for the inconvenient fact that Tie seems to have been completely correct in his evaluation of his son. He knew how his boy would respond to the scale and the pressure. If Tie really orchestrated the trade or forced Chayka's hand, it was an astute maneuver, as much as it hurts as a Coyotes fan.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Craig Morgan is always hinting but never expanding on the idea that Tie Domi was a huge pain in the ass and was a major driving force in getting Max traded. That Tie interview that came out in an article after the trade certainly seems to support what Craig regularly hints at. In the interview, Tie calls the Canadiens a "real" team and Montreal a "real" market. He made some other comments I don't remember as well, the general point of which (if I recall correctly) was that Max needs the big stage and the high pressure in order to be at his best. I got the impression that he felt Max was wasted here and had no reason to take the next step here.

I'd be mad except for the inconvenient fact that Tie seems to have been completely correct in his evaluation of his son. He knew how his boy would respond to the scale and the pressure. If Tie really orchestrated the trade or forced Chayka's hand, it was an astute maneuver, as much as it hurts as a Coyotes fan.

I don't care if Max goes on to have a Hall of Fame career - I'm glad he's not a Coyote anymore. I don't think I've ever soured faster or harder on a player than I have with Domi - and most of it is because I was so convinced by his comments about being so happy to be drafted by Arizona all those years ago, and I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Still got my Domi jersey but at this point I'm saving it for rags.

 

[rt]

I don't care if Max goes on to have a Hall of Fame career - I'm glad he's not a Coyote anymore. I don't think I've ever soured faster or harder on a player than I have with Domi - and most of it is because I was so convinced by his comments about being so happy to be drafted by Arizona all those years ago, and I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Still got my Domi jersey but at this point I'm saving it for rags.

I’m still a fan. YOLO right? I’m glad he’s doing well. I’ll be much, much, much happier for Max if Phil Kessel puts up at least 57 points in the remaining 67 games on the schedule.

 

[cobra427]

Kessel has been solid until the last two or three games. He has been brutal in those games, and as far as tougher matchups, he has had those his whole career, and with RT juggling lines, he has had some easier match ups. Kessel's number is 81, not 18. You are probably getting the numbers mixed up.

If he is solid in 13 out of 15 games, thats pretty good. He was on the second line in Pitt with better line mates and a lesser matchup. Like I say, kessel is fine, his goals will come once they figure out pairings and their is some chemistry. He has not gotten old or all of a sudden not figured out how to score, patience

 

[XX]

I don't care if Max goes on to have a Hall of Fame career - I'm glad he's not a Coyote anymore. I don't think I've ever soured faster or harder on a player than I have with Domi - and most of it is because I was so convinced by his comments about being so happy to be drafted by Arizona all those years ago, and I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Still got my Domi jersey but at this point I'm saving it for rags.

Not sure how you can imply he lied or deceived you with his comments. It's entirely possible he loved the thought and the reality what was not what he was looking for. Not the first player to be disillusioned with AZ.

 

[TheLegend]

Happy with being in the NHL..... happIER being in Montreal.

 

[RemoAZ]

I think we can all agree the culture has to change and hopefully it has with the new owner. There have been way too many issues with guys not wanting to be here, poor drafting, poor development, poor roster management, etc. It's starting to look like we turned a corner. Would be nice to finally hit a home run in the draft though. We've come away empty after so many horrible seasons. That's the most disappointing thing with this team to me. We need to get Raanta pitching shutouts so we have a premium trade chip to add a young difference maker scoring center/forward for the top six.

 

[azcanuck]

For sure but I do wonder when GMJC is going to start getting some recognition for what he's doing here. Maybe the jury is still deliberating.

It's a good observation. Since the Coyotes have been losers for so long and now perhaps they have turned the corner.

A good group of young players who have matured.

He blew it with Domi, getting AG. But overall he's filled in the roster well with wise FA pickups and getting two solid goalies.

I still personally think he's built too soft of a roster. I hear him talk about how he feels the players he drafts fit the "new NHL". But he forgets about the toughness aspect (not fighting). Look at Boston and St. Louis . Two recent cup finalist. Toughness still matters esp. in the playoffs. Coyotes are not built for the playoffs.

 

[azcanuck]

The last two three games Kessel has been brutal.

just notice how many people keep making excuses for him. Blaming Keller.

Maybe they can get Geno from Pittsburgh? Oh wait Geno said it was him or Kessel who needed to go so pitt. got rid of Kessel.

 

[Jakey53]

just notice how many people keep making excuses for him. Blaming Keller.

Maybe they can get Geno from Pittsburgh? Oh wait Geno said it was him or Kessel who needed to go so pitt. got rid of Kessel.

Keller has been far from perfect. Most of the blame thrown at him is deserved. I think all know that Geno is a way better player than Kessel, so getting rid of Kessel was the only choice Pittsburgh had.

 

[Iapyi]

Pathetic the way we let the Flames hang around in this one.
How many 2 on 0's do we need before we pass on one? The first 2 on 0 Stephan hung back for a rebound on a Grabner shot and then didn't put any effort into playing the rebound! On subsequent opportunities the puck carrier shot every single time. Anyone see the 3 on 0 from another game last night? Two passes and a goal - crazy to think a goal is easier to get with the goalie out of position, I know.
Why does Kessel consistently play so close to the outside hash marks on the pp? It nearly completely eliminates him as a scoring threat. Both Schmaltz and keller spend much more time near the dot. While I'm on Kessel - he no longer puts much effort into board work and seems to have given up on skating with the speed he can generate. Really don't know what's going on there, perhaps he is just lazy.
Yeah this one pissed me off, we had 'em by the balls, lying comatose, near dead and REFUSED to bury 'em.

1st bold - "no longer puts much effort"? have you not watched him during his career? He has never put any effort into board work.

2nd bold - he's played the same way his whole career.

 

[azcanuck]

Keller has been far from perfect. Most of the blame thrown at him is deserved. I think all know that Geno is a way better player than Kessel, so getting rid of Kessel was the only choice Pittsburgh had.

Pitt brass flew to Russia to appease one of the best players in the world. It was a very easy choice esp. with all the other concerns they had about Kessel.

He's on the decline. Some posters are saying "relax it's early". But outside of a couple of bursts this year what you see is what you'll get.

He'll be lucky to score 20 this year. And when they remove him from Keller (if they do) he wont suddenly score. In fact he might have more trouble getting scoring chances .

And if Kessel doesnt produce offense he's largely a useless figure on a team. He offers little else. Maybe some fun in the dressing room (leadership).

 

[Coyotedroppings]

1st bold - "no longer puts much effort"? have you not watched him during his career? He has never put any effort into board work.

2nd bold - he's played the same way his whole career.

He appeared to be a changed man when early this season and was indeed working hard, to include along the boards. I thought he showed a more of that again last night.

 

[Iapyi]

He appeared to be a changed man when early this season and was indeed working hard, to include along the boards. I thought he showed a more of that again last night.

I am really happy to hear that. I have watched him his whole career and I have never seen him play that way. Have to admit I am surprised by it but not so surprised he has fallen back to his old methods.

I have played a lot of hockey, and still do, and I have always detested guys who play that way. I find it to be a waste of talent and natural skill, not to mention it detracts from team unity.

Whether it's accurate or not I don't know but I always get the impression that guys that play that way put themselves above the team and in hockey that is sacrilegious to my way of thinking.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I am really happy to hear that. I have watched him his whole career and I have never seen him play that way. Have to admit I am surprised by it but not so surprised he has fallen back to his old methods.

I have played a lot of hockey, and still do, and I have always detested guys who play that way. I find it to be a waste of talent and natural skill, not to mention it detracts from team unity.

Whether it's accurate or not I don't know but I always get the impression that guys that play that way put themselves above the team and in hockey that is sacrilegious to my way of thinking.

It's a role, if the performance is there, I don't find it bothersome as a player, or a fan.
I could be way off, but here's my thought. RT brings kessel in, asks him to put that extra effort in as an example for the lads, how we want to play etc.. Phil obliges, but comes up short on the point totals and starts to revert back, hoping the points will come. It's understandable, as it's difficult to be a complete player, at which point I revert back to my first sentence.

 

[azcanuck]

I am really happy to hear that. I have watched him his whole career and I have never seen him play that way. Have to admit I am surprised by it but not so surprised he has fallen back to his old methods.

I have played a lot of hockey, and still do, and I have always detested guys who play that way. I find it to be a waste of talent and natural skill, not to mention it detracts from team unity.

Whether it's accurate or not I don't know but I always get the impression that guys that play that way put themselves above the team and in hockey that is sacrilegious to my way of thinking.

Guys like McDavid, Lemieux, Gretz they all played like you describe and it's not selfish, they are utilizing their premier offensive talent for the benefit of the team.
Lemieux somehow used to get a lot of breakaways. you dont want guys like this expending energy digging pucks out of corners and playing 200 foot games.
The problem is when guys ike Kessel, clearly not in the same catagory, plays like that. He's not good enough and if not offering offense is useless.
He's becoming a useless player. Rapid decline. It happens.

 

[Iapyi]

It's a role, if the performance is there, I don't find it bothersome as a player, or a fan.
I could be way off, but here's my thought. RT brings kessel in, asks him to put that extra effort in as an example for the lads, how we want to play etc.. Phil obliges, but comes up short on the point totals and starts to revert back, hoping the points will come. It's understandable, as it's difficult to be a complete player, at which point I revert back to my first sentence.

I always have the same stance whether it's in hockey or any other thing in life, I don't like people who try to ride the backs of others efforts. In the long run that mentality is a losing venture.

 

[Iapyi]

Guys like McDavid, Lemieux, Gretz they all played like you describe and it's not selfish, they are utilizing their premier offensive talent for the benefit of the team.
Lemieux somehow used to get a lot of breakaways. you dont want guys like this expending energy digging pucks out of corners and playing 200 foot games.
The problem is when guys ike Kessel, clearly not in the same catagory, plays like that. He's not good enough and if not offering offense is useless.
He's becoming a useless player. Rapid decline. It happens.

I agree. In the thread about the trade that brought kissioel to the Coyotes I predicted he gets 40-50 points this year, of course his fan boys got their knickers in a knot. Some folk can't think past their emotions. His contract is going to haunt the team.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I always have the same stance whether it's in hockey or any other thing in life, I don't like people who try to ride the backs of others efforts. In the long run that mentality is a losing venture.

May that serve you well comrade. I choose to reap the rewards of embracing the exceptional individual and prospering with teams that can work within those parameters.

 

[Prarievarg]

I always have the same stance whether it's in hockey or any other thing in life, I don't like people who try to ride the backs of others efforts. In the long run that mentality is a losing venture.

Yes. And f*** all those checking line,defensive forwards riding the offensive efforts of players like Kessel.

Apperantly it's hard to understand different players have different roles, and still can be team players.

Not saying I've been happy with Kessel so far. But it's not due to his lack of board battles.

 

[Iapyi]

Yes. And **** all those checking line,defensive forwards riding the offensive efforts of players like Kessel.

Apperantly it's hard to understand different players have different roles, and still can be team players.

Not saying I've been happy with Kessel so far. But it's not due to his lack of board battles.

Good for him!! Perhaps he is starting to understand that you can't play like a soft, lazy floater.