Post-Game Talk: Game 13: Penalty Kill Bill | Blackhawks vs. Stars | 11/6/16 6 p.m. (CSN)

[JaegerDice]

dang, i guess i screwed the pooch here. i meant that motte, panik and toews together ..

Panik-Toews-Motte
Panarin-Ani-Kane
Hossa-Schmaltz-Hartman

the one problem i see is, some playing off wing.

Oh.

Well, Hossa isn't playing his off wing. He's been here since 2010 and I can remember him doing it exactly once, in 2011, at the last face off of the last game against Detroit, down by 1, alongside Toews and Kane.

I don't view Panik as a top line player. I think his sh% is carrying him thus far, and I know Q likes him because he hits, but he's an actively bad possession player facing top competition. It's a bad combo that's going to bite them in the ass sooner than later.

I'd rather use Panik in the bottom 6, where I think he's above average relative to most bottom 6 players and could really do some damage. Maybe you try him with BOTH Toews and Hossa, but I think a Panik Toews Motte line would struggle over a larger sample.

 

[LDF]

Oh.

Well, Hossa isn't playing his off wing. He's been here since 2010 and I can remember him doing it exactly once, in 2011, at the last face off of the last game against Detroit, down by 1, alongside Toews and Kane.

I don't view Panik as a top line player. I think his sh% is carrying him thus far, and I know Q likes him because he hits, but he's an actively bad possession player facing top competition. It's a bad combo that's going to bite them in the ass sooner than later.

I'd rather use Panik in the bottom 6, where I think he's above average relative to most bottom 6 players and could really do some damage. Maybe you try him with BOTH Toews and Hossa, but I think a Panik Toews Motte line would struggle over a larger sample.

this is what i am looking for, my excitement for this team got me thinking crazy shiite ....

 

[halcyon]

Toews and Kane really have no chemistry anymore. They did in the past, but Kane has exponentially better chemistry with Panarin now.

So yeah, I'd like to see Party reunited.

Hossa has been playing well lately ... he seems to have good chemistry with the two Russians himself.

Hopefully he would maintain his good play if he moved up to Toews' line and not regress...

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Just want a strong 60 minute effort and Hawks W

 

[SAADfather]

Toews and Kane really have no chemistry anymore. They did in the past, but Kane has exponentially better chemistry with Panarin now.

So yeah, I'd like to see Party reunited.

Hossa has been playing well lately ... he seems to have good chemistry with the two Russians himself.

Hopefully he would maintain his good play if he moved up to Toews' line and not regress...

I don't think it's as much that Toews and Kane don't have chemistry anymore as much as I think Toews AND Panik is a bad line combination for Kane. Toews and Panik both play a low chip and chase style that doesn't really mesh well with Kane. I'm not completely against reuniting 72/88 as the top line clearly isn't going to work long term but I'd like to see Panik get replaced on the top line before that happens. I think someone like Schmaltz could have sucess there but I don't see q doing that.

 

[JaegerDice]

Toews and Kane really have no chemistry anymore. They did in the past, but Kane has exponentially better chemistry with Panarin now.

So yeah, I'd like to see Party reunited.

Hossa has been playing well lately ... he seems to have good chemistry with the two Russians himself.

Hopefully he would maintain his good play if he moved up to Toews' line and not regress...

It's not chemistry that's helping Hossa, it's the drop in QoC. With both Kane and Toews on one line, they're getting the brunt of the top competition, which leaves a ton of time and space for the second line.

This is why the Blackhawks deployment strategy has been what it is since 2013. It's basic min/maxing. Insulate and prop up the player(s) with the most offensive strength, use the best possession and defensive players to keep the puck in the other end, scoring more than the other guys.

So the question is, who you want getting closer to their potential maximum offensive output: Kane or Hossa.

Either choice has pros and cons as far as maximization and lineup balance.

 

[Kshahdoo]

It's not chemistry that's helping Hossa, it's the drop in QoC. With both Kane and Toews on one line, they're getting the brunt of the top competition, which leaves a ton of time and space for the second line.

This is why the Blackhawks deployment strategy has been what it is since 2013. It's basic min/maxing. Insulate and prop up the player(s) with the most offensive strength, use the best possession and defensive players to keep the puck in the other end, scoring more than the other guys.

So the question is, who you want getting closer to their potential maximum offensive output: Kane or Hossa.

Either choice has pros and cons as far as maximization and lineup balance.

Man, both Dallas' goals last night, which were scored with Toews line on the ice, were scored by the 3rd and 4th lines. Is this QoC you mean?

 

[JaegerDice]

Man, both Dallas' goals last night, which were scored with Toews line on the ice, were scored by the 3rd and 4th lines. Is this QoC you mean?

In a shocking turn of events, the box score is not the best indication of how a game was played. Crazy, I know.

What, considering skaters have no impact on SV% among other factors.

The Toews line and the Seguin line played the bulk of their 5v5 time against each other.

Be honest. Does Putin pay you to post here?

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Toews/Kane has lost a step due to Toews and Toews alone IMO. It used to be they'd do basically two things...quick beautiful plays off the rush but more commonly the classic grinder/playmaker combo where Toews would keep possession behind the net, dish it out for a snipe or more passing where Kane or X would continue the play and Toews would clean up any trash around the net. Toews just hasn't been as dominant in his usual areas as of late.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Or JD ,, Could it be Hossa looks his best in years because he is away from Toews?

Kane struggling with Toews , Hossa struggling with Toews , etc , etc

I am seeing one common theme here

 

[BobbyJet]

I don't view Panik as a top line player. I think his sh% is carrying him thus far, and I know Q likes him because he hits, but he's an actively bad possession player facing top competition. It's a bad combo that's going to bite them in the ass sooner than later.

I'd rather use Panik in the bottom 6, where I think he's above average relative to most bottom 6 players and could really do some damage. Maybe you try him with BOTH Toews and Hossa, but I think a Panik Toews Motte line would struggle over a larger sample.

I have been mulling over the same thing in my head since the beginning of the season. I like Panik on the PP as he has shown he can be effective in front of the ops goalie ... but as a regular top 6 guy, I'm still not so sure. He doesn't have great wheels and doesn't really fit as the prototype top 6 winger, however if he can continue to get those garbage goals that can be a tremendous asset that complements the skill players on his line... as well it encourages getting the puck to net which is always desired. Time will tell in Panik can remain up there.

 

[JaegerDice]

Or JD ,, Could it be Hossa looks his best in years because he is away from Toews?

Kane struggling with Toews , Hossa struggling with Toews , etc , etc

I am seeing one common theme here

Indeed. An older player and a player used to insulation are struggling against top competition.

We see the same struggles from Kane in international play when he is keyed in on by top player matchups rather than sheltered like a fragile dove in downy soft tissue.

Theme: Playing against the best players is hard.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Watching JD continue to defend this unacceaptable level of play from Toews is amusing

I must applaud you on your determination to defend #19 at all costs

 

[Fortyfives]

I don't think it's as much that Toews and Kane don't have chemistry anymore as much as I think Toews AND Panik is a bad line combination for Kane. Toews and Panik both play a low chip and chase style that doesn't really mesh well with Kane. I'm not completely against reuniting 72/88 as the top line clearly isn't going to work long term but I'd like to see Panik get replaced on the top line before that happens. I think someone like Schmaltz could have sucess there but I don't see q doing that.

I agree with everything you posted. Panik isn't a great combo for Kane and Toews. The Hawks need a top line LW that can handle the puck to match up with Toews and Kane. Panik and Toews essentially play the same role on that line by staying close to net.

 

[JaegerDice]

Watching JD continue to defend this unacceaptable level of play from Toews is amusing

I must applaud you on your determination to defend #19 at all costs

As I must applaud your determination to ignore reality at all cost.

Tell us more of how the Blackhawks should have sold at the 2015 deadline, or how bad Anisimov is BWC. Tell us more about how one of our few positive possession forwards is hurting the team at the top of the division.

The deadpan satirical fiction you provide is a wonderful escape from the grim reality that is this election week.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Toews/Kane line used to carry whomever was around and make player X look better than his pedigree with no issues.

Saad he isn't, but if Panik can float around to wait for opportunities and do okay on the boards he should, in theory, compliment two 10.5 million dollar players just fine.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Problem is Toews of 2010/2013 is a distant memory

What we are left with is a guy who is shell of that player (Though paid far more then that player)

Its rather telling that moving even Kane to his line hasn't been able to salvage that contract at this point

Its getting more and more concerning to watch #19 struggle at this point

 

[Rugbyplayer*]

As I must applaud your determination to ignore reality at all cost.

Tell us more of how the Blackhawks should have sold at the 2015 deadline, or how bad Anisimov is BWC. Tell us more about how one of our few positive possession forwards is hurting the team at the top of the division.

The deadpan satirical fiction you provide is a wonderful escape from the grim reality that is this election week.

Please. Amuse me with your childlike interpretation of hockey. I wish to laugh again!

Toews hasn't been bad. However, I'd like him to elevate his play. On the other hand, as long as the Hawks are winning, who cares!

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Gotta agree with BWC here. As of last year Toews really lost his leverage or upper body strength, or just sheer will, whatever it was he was just a notch below Crosby in the puck protection department. He tries hard now but he looks like he gets rag-dolled every other shift, almost feel bad for the guy if he didn't have all those benjamins to wipe any tears with.

We all want to see him back in top form, like that short period of time when his best winger was Frolik and he was still tearing up 2/3rds of the league's top lines.

 

[RedBaronIndian]

 

[SAADfather]

Thought he would come in for Schmaltz so I'm happy I guess. Would have liked to see him come in for Tootoo though.

 

[BK]

I have been mulling over the same thing in my head since the beginning of the season. I like Panik on the PP as he has shown he can be effective in front of the ops goalie ... but as a regular top 6 guy, I'm still not so sure. He doesn't have great wheels and doesn't really fit as the prototype top 6 winger, however if he can continue to get those garbage goals that can be a tremendous asset that complements the skill players on his line... as well it encourages getting the puck to net which is always desired. Time will tell in Panik can remain up there.

Panik is actually a pretty fast skater. He plays a very north south game when he is on his game and that doesn't always fit with all players.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Panik's tools aren't the issue, it's entirely his toolbox.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Man, both Dallas' goals last night, which were scored with Toews line on the ice, were scored by the 3rd and 4th lines. Is this QoC you mean?

Still so so so mad toews absolutely destroyed team russias top line at 2010 olympics. Stay mad brah

 

[JaegerDice]

Apparently same lineup as last night for the Blackhawks.

So we get another 6 utterly pointless minutes of Tootoo! Yay!

lol