Post-Game Talk: Gagner > McDrai

[Tobias Kahun]

Yah exactly. Wins and losses.

Yes.

You said they were a bottom 5 defensive team last year.

The results of their wins vs losses and goals against confirm that was a lie.

Or is goals against too advanced of a stat for you?

 

[Drivesaitl]

So...you really want to use +/- to establish a players defensive ability?
You really want to base an argument on the quality of a players value defensively on that flawed stat?
Very weak.

I also cited GA. Your reply? "Very weak."

The onus is on you, making the claim, that Connor Brown has been "excellent defensively" here. you're the only at this point still waving ANY flag for Connor Brown. So back it up in some way other than just you claiming, contrary to actual games and evidence that Connor Brown is "excellent defensively"

So again use some specifics, back your claim, you're the one making the claim, nobody else is.

I merely rebutted your claim which you lack evidence for. Again I said theres no indication that Connor Brown has been a stalwart defensively here.

 

[Oilers333]

Yes.

You said they were a bottom 5 defensive team last year.

The results of their wins vs losses and goals against confirm that was a lie.

Or is goals against too advanced of a stat for you?

bahahaha smart guy you are

Yes.

You said they were a bottom 5 defensive team last year.

The results of their wins vs losses and goals against confirm that was a lie.

Or is goals against too advanced of a stat for you?

Glad to know you are one of those guys who judges position groups strictly on surface level stats. I know now not to never engage with you. All the best

 

[mkatcherin00]

Some good analysis of last nights goals

Ten-bell errors continue to sink Oilers despite dominating flow of play, especially at home

Ten-bell errors continue to plague Oilers

edmontonjournal.com

 

[Louis Cypher]

You have to admit that the first few games were ugly but in the past 5 games to his credit he’s been our one of the teams best players AINEC.

Yes but the over reaction from people on this board about pretty much anything really puts into question their mental and emotional age.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yes but the over reaction from people on this board about pretty much anything really puts into question their mental and emotional age.

It’s the life cycle of fans. Worse than a fruit fly.

 

[harpoon]

Connor Brown has been a medium GA player his last full season in Ottawa and the two short bits of seasons since. Brown was -15 that last ottawa season. -4 in Washington and now -5 here. Those are not swimming numbers.

Theres no indication whatsoever that Brown has been strong here defensively. I think more the case is that a player is rumored to be of a certain type and people believe it no matter what the player is actually doing.

Connor Brown mostly has been getting easy minutes here against mostly bottomsix opposition in last several games and couldn't even produce a drop. Gagner gets dropped into a bottomsix spot one game and sports 2 goals. With Gags also showing an improved 200ft game.

Finally Connor Brown is age 30 in 2mths, is damaged goods with extensive injury, and is now injured yet again. This is as good as Connor Brown will look. Likelihood is getting worse from here.

cut
bait
now

This was an awful signing.

I tend to agree. Some folks have been posting stats that appear to show Brown as one of the better defensive forwards on the team. Not disputing those numbers, but they don’t line up with my viewing of the games .. and it kind of reminds me of numbers that were posted to bolster up JP’s supposed defensive wizardry - which again, was something that I wasn’t perceiving at all from watching the games.

So far this has been a disastrous signing. Another Holland blunder. Too late now though. I think the only course of action here is for Brown to take all the time he needs to recover and then be waived to Bakersfield to play there until he can get himself up to a level that makes him useful to the big club. If Holland can’t bring himself to do what is best for the team he needs to be shown the door. As quickly as possible.

 

[helloconga]

hate to say this but the captain / best player in the world needs to do something tonight to make a statement.

 

[guymez]

I also cited GA. Your reply? "Very weak."

The onus is on you, making the claim, that Connor Brown has been "excellent defensively" here. you're the only at this point still waving ANY flag for Connor Brown. So back it up in some way other than just you claiming, contrary to actual games and evidence that Connor Brown is "excellent defensively"

So again use some specifics, back your claim, you're the one making the claim, nobody else is.

I merely rebutted your claim which you lack evidence for. Again I said theres no indication that Connor Brown has been a stalwart defensively here.

The reality is that Connor Brown is coming off of a potential career ending injury. It takes time to get up to speed from that.
My claim was that he has been getting better and that he has been excellent defensively in the last 3-4 games.
Thats what my eye test suggested and it was confirmed by the analytics which have been posted on here already.
You trotted out some plus/minus numbers when you know full well that they are weak stats.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Please don't sandwich a finely constructed sentence between terrible ones.

Could care less about my grammar I know hockey

 

[Drivesaitl]

The reality is that Connor Brown is coming off of a potential career ending injury. It takes time to get up to speed from that.
My claim was that he has been getting better and that he has been excellent defensively in the last 3-4 games.
Thats what my eye test suggested and it was confirmed by the analytics which have been posted on here already.
You trotted out some plus/minus numbers when you know full well that they are weak stats.

I've consistently maintained that analytics alone are not indicative. If you think they are fine. But a player facing mostly bottomsix opposition shouldn't be scored on much, and Connor was here, and shouldn't be -5.

You also miss that Connor Browns last season in Ottawa featured him being outscored drastically. Its been several years since Connor Brown had decent numbers.

In anycase this mirage that Connor browns game was coming around that the media here were pushing so hard was bunk. . Apparently I'm to believe that the zero boxcars were visually improved. Really I hope we've seen the last of this player here and that we could use the cap on somebody else.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I tend to agree. Some folks have been posting stats that appear to show Brown as one of the better defensive forwards on the team. Not disputing those numbers, but they don’t line up with my viewing of the games .. and it kind of reminds me of numbers that were posted to bolster up JP’s supposed defensive wizardry - which again, was something that I wasn’t perceiving at all from watching the games.

So far this has been a disastrous signing. Another Holland blunder. Too late now though. I think the only course of action here is for Brown to take all the time he needs to recover and then be waived to Bakersfield to play there until he can get himself up to a level that makes him useful to the big club. If Holland can’t bring himself to do what is best for the team he needs to be shown the door. As quickly as possible.

In the case of Pulju its not analytics alone that were bolstering. For long stretches and a complete season at least Pulju had low GA wherever he was used. I would see him break up plays. he had decent speed, deceptive speed of a big player that could get to pucks and could get to opponents with the puck. As long as Pulju was finishing checks with his big body he was being hard to play against. Given other things being equal I always prefer a big body that uses it and makes life uncomfortable for opponents. This alone in regular season dissuades opponents from being in spots or overplaying the puck. The thing with Pulju is his confidence again cratered and he was incapable of getting anything done offensively. But I'd still prefer him to do nothing Brown.

 

[Duke74]

Now we do one for Draisaitl... Best PKer for DAL.

You really love Draisaitl huh? Did he run over your cat?

 

[ElysiumAB]

Could care less about my grammar I know hockey

You mean "couldn't care less."

 

[RandomGuy79]

I'm starting to think we should bench McDrai along with Nurse for a game or two, send a message.

 

[guymez]

I've consistently maintained that analytics alone are not indicative. If you think they are fine. But a player facing mostly bottomsix opposition shouldn't be scored on much, and Connor was here, and shouldn't be -5.

You also miss that Connor Browns last season in Ottawa featured him being outscored drastically. Its been several years since Connor Brown had decent numbers.

In anycase this mirage that Connor browns game was coming around that the media here were pushing so hard was bunk. . Apparently I'm to believe that the zero boxcars were visually improved. Really I hope we've seen the last of this player here and that we could use the cap on somebody else.

What are you talking about? I have maintained all along that analytics alone does not tell the whole story. Thats exactly why I said that my eye test confirmed what the analytics were suggesting.
Check the very post you quoted.
You are just making stuff up toi fit your argument.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What are you talking about? I have maintained all along that analytics alone does not tell the whole story. Thats exactly why I said that my eye test confirmed what the analytics were suggesting.
Check the very post you quoted.
You are just making stuff up toi fit your argument.

Yet you're expecting others to just value your "eye test"...holy hell.

On f***ing Connor Brown. The worst player on the club who isn't even playing now because he's an injured bill of goods. A player that couldn't get a solid first stop going and ended injuring himself again trying to do it.

lets keep this in mind too. You didn't say Connor Brown was Ok defensively, or good, you said he was being "excellent defensively" An absolutely ridiculous proposition that nobody else would defend.

When asked to defend your curious position you now say it was your eye test. lol

We're done here. No need to discuss it further.

 

[guymez]

Yet you're expecting others to just value your "eye test"...holy hell.

On f***ing Connor Brown. The worst player on the club who isn't even playing now because he's an injured bill of goods. A player that couldn't get a solid first stop going and ended injuring himself again trying to do it.

lets keep this in mind too. You didn't say Connor Brown was Ok defensively, or good, you said he was being "excellent defensively" An absolutely ridiculous proposition that nobody else would defend.

When asked to defend your curious position you now say it was your eye test. lol

Maybe talke a break until you can manage to properly read a post.
I said that I am going by analytics and the eye test.

What is so diifcult about that for you to understand?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Maybe talke a break until you can manage to properly read a post.
I said that I am going by analytics and the eye test.

What is so diifcult about that for you to understand?

What is so difficult for YOU to understand that people aren't just going to take your position as gospel on your "eye test"

Heres one:

If you make a ridiculous statement, that Connor Brown was being "excellent defensively" (your exact words) people are gonna take it to task. Thats the trouble with making untenable statements. If your statement was you thought Connor Brown had been good defensively I wouldn't even have called it out.

But here you are dying on a hill defending a player too useless to even stay healthy that injured himself making a routine first stride. Its like defending an edsel. This is about the most useless hyped player I've seen here since Turris. The guy can't even play anymore and didn't even last the 10 games.

Really I feel sorry for the two fans that bought Connor Brown jerseys. Maybe refunds or throwing them on ice is possible.

 

[guymez]

What is so difficult for YOU to understand that people aren't just going to take your position as gospel on your "eye test"

Heres one:

View attachment 763334

If you make a ridiculous statement, that Connor Brown was being "excellent defensively" here people are gonna take it to task. Thats the trouble with making untenable statements. If your statement was you thought Connor Brown had been good defensively I wouldn't even have taken it to task.

Are you drunk?
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here but you are just repeating the same nonsensical drivel post after post.
I am not going to repeat things for a 3rd time.

Seriously dude...take a break....reread my posts and then respond.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Are you drunk?
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here but you are just repeating the same nonsensical drivel post after post.
I am not going to repeat things for a 3rd time.

Seriously dude...take a break....reread my posts and then respond.

Maybe read your own posts. hardly anybody else does.

 

[guymez]

Maybe read your own posts. hardly anybody else does.

Yeah...were done.
If you cant be bothered to actually read something before you post a repsonse (3 times in a row) then there isnt much point in continuing.

 

[russ99]

What is so difficult for YOU to understand that people aren't just going to take your position as gospel on your "eye test"

Heres one:

View attachment 763334

If you make a ridiculous statement, that Connor Brown was being "excellent defensively" (your exact words) people are gonna take it to task. Thats the trouble with making untenable statements. If your statement was you thought Connor Brown had been good defensively I wouldn't even have called it out.

But here you are dying on a hill defending a player too useless to even stay healthy that injured himself making a routine first stride. Its like defending an edsel. This is about the most useless hyped player I've seen here since Turris. The guy can't even play anymore and didn't even last the 10 games.

Really I feel sorry for the two fans that bought Connor Brown jerseys. Maybe refunds or throwing them on ice is possible.

Maybe you need an eye exam to think a player is washed after 8 games, when missing an entire year.

And really this has nothing to do with Connor Brown, it’s about the bonus rolling over to next year that it took to sign a $3m player for the minimum.

We barely had enough cap to sign McLeod and Bouchard, so where’s the cap coming from to sign a comparable level player?

75% of teams were at or just below the cap this offseason, Sam Pollock couldn’t move out cap without taking cap back.

Ok, so we don’t sign Brown, who else moves the needle at $750k when only PTO players are out there like Erne.

 

[Soundwave]

Maybe you need an eye exam to think a player is washed after 8 games, when missing an entire year.

And really this has nothing to do with Connor Brown, it’s about the bonus next year that it took to sign a $3m player for the minimum.

We barely had enough cap to sign McLeod and Bouchard, so where’s the cap coming from to sign a comparable level player?

75% of teams were at or just below the cap this offseason, Sam Pollock couldn’t move out cap without taking cap back.

Ok, so we don’t sign Brown, who else moves the needle at $750k when only PTO players are out there like Erne.

I'm just gonna say it ... Connor Brown was never that great of a player.

Like where does this line of reasoning come from that he was like some borderline star winger anywhere.

Dude was on pace for 13 goals the season *before* his ACL tear.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Maybe you need an eye exam to think a player is washed after 8 games, when missing an entire year.

And really this has nothing to do with Connor Brown, it’s about the bonus rolling over to next year that it took to sign a $3m player for the minimum.

We barely had enough cap to sign McLeod and Bouchard, so where’s the cap coming from to sign a comparable level player?

75% of teams were at or just below the cap this offseason, Sam Pollock couldn’t move out cap without taking cap back.

Ok, so we don’t sign Brown, who else moves the needle at $750k when only PTO players are out there like Erne.

No I don't. Connor Brown had a complete ACL tear. He missed a whole season due to it. He just injured himself again making a routine first step after being behind the play all season and not able to have the pace to keep up.

Further when has Connor brown last any good? His last season in Ottawa he was outscored drastically and only scored 10 goals. Doesn't seem like any great grab by Holland. He's been absolutely nothing here and I'd hope the org realizes that and doesn't give him another game.

"Comparable level player" Lets see. Gagner at league minimum, even Erne at league minimum, anybody has been better than Connor Brown.

I missed as well that Connor Brown was moving any needle.

I'm just gonna say it ... Connor Brown was never that great of a player.

Like where does this line of reasoning come from that he was like some borderline star winger anywhere.

Dude was on pace for 13 goals the season *before* his ACL tear.

Yep. The legend of Connor Brown. lol. The hype machine here and on media here for this player was beyond the pale. For a guy with 90 career goals that hasn't scored a goal in his last 27 NHL games across 3 clubs. He's a nothing add.