Recalled/Assigned: Gabriel Bourque to San Antonio

[thehockeywatchinger]

Im with Kento on this one I hope this just means they give Greer a reward for his hot start in the A.

It is my opinion that Greer can develop better with Rampage for the instant. Without question he is the best prospector forward. 10 game plus and we see what we have. I have confidence not this player.

I have a question. It is apparent that he plays 3e line, 2e PP. He is not playing PK and I can not remember I'm 4x4. Is there a site Web for player minutes LHA? My chum says that Greer has 10-14 maximum presences par match. I think he is correct. This is very strange development. Do the Avalanches control that or is M. Veilleux the responsible?

Thank you.

 

[Foppa2118]

Cap savings is smart IMO. Bourque saves $4,444 a day he is down. Let's assume the unreasonable right now and say this fully stays until the deadline, that would give the Avs the ability to take on a ~7m contract from the deadline until the playoffs. Now that is completely unreasonable, but if they are smart like this and move a player up and down while they can, they can take their ~1-1.6m in space and make it closer to 3-4m by the deadline. This gives so much more flexibility for trades. With the small increase in the cap this year, I expect a number of teams to use this tactic early in the season.

It's smart, but depending on the player you do it to, it's not a great reputation building move. Journeymen like Smith, or young players like Compher, it makes sense to make this move because they haven't really earned it yet. Even someone like Marty. Someone like Bourque though is a relatively proven 26 year old NHLer, outside of injuries. He's earned it IMO. He did agree to a two way contract so it's fair game to an extent, but that was likely done with the idea that if he played well he'd stay in the NHL earning an NHL salary. To me he's done that. Not a terrible move, but a little cheap IMO.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Seems like also Bednar wants as many guys playing as possible. He's leaving 1 extra D and 1 extra F, if an injury happens someone will be called up to be an extra.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

The guy came to camp on a PTO. I doubt he was given any guarantees, even if he got his contract. There's nothing chincy about it.

 

[henchman21]

It's smart, but depending on the player you do it to, it's not a great reputation building move. Journeymen like Smith, or young players like Compher, it makes sense to make this move because they haven't really earned it yet. Even someone like Marty. Someone like Bourque though is a relatively proven 26 year old NHLer, outside of injuries. He's earned it IMO. He did agree to a two way contract so it's fair game to an extent, but that was likely done with the idea that if he played well he'd stay in the NHL earning an NHL salary. To me he's done that. Not a terrible move, but a little cheap IMO.

I wouldn't even come close to saying it is cheap. As you point out, he has a 2 way contract, but on top of that he was given a guaranteed minimum by the club. That references the fact that both parties discussed this possibility at length. Beyond that, he hasn't proven that he is better than anybody in the lineup, even Marty.

As for the reputation, I really don't see how this hurts the Avs in the least. They negotiated 2 year deal with a minimum salary. They were upfront and honest with Gabriel. Any player in a similar situation will get the same run down.

 

[Foppa2118]

I wouldn't even come close to saying it is cheap. As you point out, he has a 2 way contract, but on top of that he was given a guaranteed minimum by the club. That references the fact that both parties discussed this possibility at length. Beyond that, he hasn't proven that he is better than anybody in the lineup, even Marty.

As for the reputation, I really don't see how this hurts the Avs in the least. They negotiated 2 year deal with a minimum salary. They were upfront and honest with Gabriel. Any player in a similar situation will get the same run down.

It doesn't hurt them a great deal. Only potentially, and only with a smaller signing. It potentially may be something that an agent looks at when advising his client where his best options are to sign. They'll say, you could sign here in Colorado, but keep in mind they sent down Gabriel Bourque last year just to save money. Gabriel Bourque isn't Ben Smith, he's an actual NHler. If they did that to him they might do it to you. It'll be up to the player whether they want to chance it or take a PTO or two way deal with another team.

I'm not sure he has a guaranteed minimum either. Where did you see that? CF could be wrong, but they don't have that listed for him. They do for Stanton and O'Brien but not Bourque. Just his $200k AHL salary.

It's just a little cheap (not in the financial sense) to me because like I said Bourque is a proven NHLer. He hasn't played poorly either, it's just that Marty has played well. Marty took a step back last game too, and another off game next time, and Bourque should have be the next guy called. What happens if he gets hurt in the minors? Then he's really screwed.

Again, not a huge deal, just doesn't totally sit right with me given the player. He knew it was a risk when he signed the two way deal though. He probably just thought it would only happen if he played poorly. Not everything is fair in life though.

 

[henchman21]

Gabriel Bourque isn't Ben Smith, he's an actual NHler.

If he was, he wouldn't have needed a PTO nor would he have passed through waivers... something Ben Smith didn't even do. Bourque is a fringe NHL/AHL player nothing more.

Agents look at teams where there is a shot to make the club, and the Avs did that with 2 PTOs. Still a PTO is just a shot, more got cut than got signed. I guess all those teams that cut PTO players are going to have a tough time signing PTOs...

 

[Foppa2118]

If he was, he wouldn't have needed a PTO nor would he have passed through waivers... something Ben Smith didn't even do. Bourque is a fringe NHL/AHL player nothing more.

Agents look at teams where there is a shot to make the club, and the Avs did that with 2 PTOs. Still a PTO is just a shot, more got cut than got signed. I guess all those teams that cut PTO players are going to have a tough time signing PTOs...

Guarantee you it wasn't as simple as that. They were likely stuck on contract details and whether to sign a two way deal or not. Just like they were with Glenncross the year before. Then they signed Smith for safety late in the summer to a cheaper two way deal than Bourque got. He makes $125k less in the NHL and $50k less in the AHL. Neither appear to have guaranteed money that I can see.

Bourque is a clear cut better player than Smith, the only concern with him was injuries, and he is healthy right now. Bourque went on waivers at the absolute best time to sneak guys down without being claimed. At the end of pre-seaosn when teams have their own roster decisions to worry about.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Cap space for the deadline is not exactly something I'm interested in. I don't think it's for that anyway, if tragedy strikes they want to be able to call up more than two players. Look at the Wild, they might not be able to dress a full roster because they don't have the money to call enough players up. Those cap teams call players up and down on a weekly if not daily basis. If they have a multi day break they are sending guys down just to save a few thousand dollars. If it's a paper transaction no big deal but if those guys have to report that's where they might get frayed.

Btw, scroll to the right on CF to see AHL salary.

 

[Foppa2118]

Btw, scroll to the right on CF to see AHL salary.

We're you letting me know this, or was that directed elsewhere? I don't think I got that wrong. Bourque makes $800k/$200k and Smith makes $675k/$150k. Neither show higher guaranteed money like Stanton and O'Brien.

 

[tigervixxxen]

We're you letting me know this, or was that directed elsewhere? I don't think I got that wrong. Bourque makes $800k/$200k and Smith makes $675k/$150k. Neither show higher guaranteed money like Stanton and O'Brien.

Stanton and O'Brien have a high AHL salary to begin in with, is it really that much different to have a literal "guarantee"? Bourques AHL salary is 200k, how is that not a form of a guarantee?

 

[henchman21]

IIRC it was 250k. CF doesn't have all the info on all the contracts.

Regardless... Bourque signed a 2 year deal, passed through waivers, and got NHL games (and he will be backup). The Avs don't owe him anything.

On that note too Bourque has already hit ~84k, the minimum of 250k is already surpassed.

 

[Foppa2118]

I do think it was in the tweet about Bourque signing about a guarantee. Stanton and O'Brien have a high AHL salary to be PG in with, is it really that much different to have a literal "guarantee"?

It's possible. CF has the Avs draft picks wrong, they might have Bourque's guaranteed minimum missing.

I'm not sure the logistics of it, but Stanton's guarantee is $55k more than his AHL salary, and O'Brien's is $40k more. If someone only spends a short time in the minors, it likely wouldn't play a factor though.

Bourque's $200k is a form of guaranteed money, it's just not the same as the way they did it with Stanton or O'Brien's deals whose AHL salaries and guaranteed minimums are both fairly higher than his $200k. If CF is correct that is, which they may not be. I assume this wasn't just a Chambers tweet?

The "guaranteed money" aspect only came up to show they may have talked about this scenario beforehand.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It is my opinion that Greer can develop better with Rampage for the instant. Without question he is the best prospector forward. 10 game plus and we see what we have. I have confidence not this player.

I have a question. It is apparent that he plays 3e line, 2e PP. He is not playing PK and I can not remember I'm 4x4. Is there a site Web for player minutes LHA? My chum says that Greer has 10-14 maximum presences par match. I think he is correct. This is very strange development. Do the Avalanches control that or is M. Veilleux the responsible?

Thank you.

I don't think anyone really expects Greer called up right now. Just he's been the best forward so if they had so call someone up I'm not sure who they would choose as the veterans haven't been playing well. I agree he needs to develop in San Antonio more. I would say he has been playing on the 2nd line when he got put with Compher and Grimaldi and that line has been hot so they get played more than the veterans. Teams don't release AHL time on ice, they feel it is sensitive information. I think he plays quite a bit but sometimes they do give veterans some extra time to get them going.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Why did he not have to go through waivers?

Never mind. I forgot he already passed.

I wouldn't even come close to saying it is cheap. As you point out, he has a 2 way contract, but on top of that he was given a guaranteed minimum by the club. That references the fact that both parties discussed this possibility at length. Beyond that, he hasn't proven that he is better than anybody in the lineup, even Marty.

As for the reputation, I really don't see how this hurts the Avs in the least. They negotiated 2 year deal with a minimum salary. They were upfront and honest with Gabriel. Any player in a similar situation will get the same run down.

He has been better than McLeod, who barely can get on the ice.

The guy came to camp on a PTO. I doubt he was given any guarantees, even if he got his contract. There's nothing chincy about it.

Why not send McLeod down then? We would save even more on the cap, yet, he would still get paid the same amount.

 

[henchman21]

The fact that it is a 2 way contract shows they talked about this idea, a guarantee would show Bourque wanted some extra insurance. Even if Bourque stays down the rest of the year, he will hit ~263k.

He has been better than McLeod, who barely can get on the ice.

McLeod is much more proven, has a history with the team, and would very likely get picked up on waivers. I also wouldn't say Bourque is better than Cody though, Cody just may not fit or gel with Bednar.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Cody would not be a good situation in SA, not at all. We had enough of the garbage can environment in SA last year.

 

[RockLobster]

Cody would not be a good situation in SA, not at all. We had enough of the garbage can environment in SA last year.

You know not every situation is the same, right? This isn't the first time you've used last year, and how certain players were in SA, to say that McLeod would be bad down there (if he were to be waived and re-assigned, which I believe he would never be).

 

[tigervixxxen]

You know not every situation is the same, right? This isn't the first time you've used last year, and how certain players were in SA, to say that McLeod would be bad down there (if he were to be waived and re-assigned, which I believe he would never be).

You really think sending an 8 year veteran of the team to the AHL would go well? Or that in general turning the AHL team into a dumping ground again might not yield the same results? Even if he would be fine or one player wouldn't have that much of an impact, it's the attitude that players that the NHL team would rather forget about should just be dumped on the AHL team like its a giant garbage can and then wonder why they can't win or develop players in a toxic environment.

 

[henchman21]

It is on a player by player situation. For every player that had a bad attitude, there was a Guenin. Not every player demoted will be a bad apple.

That said, McLeod is one I wouldn't send to the AHL for a number of reasons. If he doesn't have a place on this team by Dec/Jan, he should be traded out of respect.

 

[CobraAcesS]

It is on a player by player situation. For every player that had a bad attitude, there was a Guenin. Not every player demoted will be a bad apple.

That said, McLeod is one I wouldn't send to the AHL for a number of reasons. If he doesn't have a place on this team by Dec/Jan, he should be traded out of respect.

Yeah I'm sure a coach like AV or Torts would love him. Honestly I think we're a couple of years past trading McLeod.

It's unfortunate, because I wish McLeod had just a little more skill to be more of a Boyle type player, because Boyle is major factor for that young Tampa team. Similar type of leader, but he can do a bit more than McLeod can.

 

[Pokecheque]

Wade Redden was sent to the minors by the Rangers, he didn't complain. It is indeed different for each player. The only guy I can remember who created a toxic environment in the Avs AHL affiliate was Haydar. Did something similar happen last season?

I don't think McLeod would do something so rash. If anything he'd do what Gregory Campbell is doing in Columbus. He refused assignment to the AHL, but publicly stated that he didn't wish to take a spot away from a young player. Take it for what you will, but either way he isn't a distraction.

 

[McMetal]

We all knew this was likely when he was waived after camp. He'll be back as the first injury callup no doubt. It's still too early to consider Greer/Compher.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I think Mcleod would be an awesome add for the Rampage. He's not like Bordeleau who's straight up bad at hockey. I don't believe it would happen, but if it did it wouldn't be a bad thing for SA.

Cody Mac would probably have a Zack Stortini type of impact on his AHL squad. Stortini (known as a POS and a goon) is now captain of his AHL team and widely respected around the league. He puts up some stats and has that intimidation factor on the ice.

McLeod is a better hockey player than Stortini.

 

[Tweaky]

McLeod has a one way, so would not take a pay cut going down. He would be more than a 4th liner in the AHL, and his leadership could be very valuable down there. I think you approach him carefully about it, but I could see him being OK with it (as long as that NHL paycheck is rolling in).

As for GBourque going down, it could (unlikely) be to improve the Rampage as much as anything else. The Avs do not need him at the moment, and SAR could use some help, especially as they just sent Rantanen up.