GDT: G75: Capitals @ Canadiens | 4/16/22 | 7:00p ET

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g00n

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Nope…not sure why this is the hill you choose to defend today.

He is what he is right now. This is probably the best we’ll see this season. He’s not sandbagging…come on.

He had an unbelievable 80% offensive zone start % in last year's playoffs. I think it's reasonable to assume they've been looking at how best to preserve and use him in the postseason at least while Lavi has been here.

The last 2 playoffs were not great for him but before that is a different story. We shall see.
 

SecretaryofDefense5

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Right. So if they don't mean shit then why worry about NB in the playoffs? They've known for some time they're going to make it. Do you think it's possible NB is just going at 70% power to stay fit and avoid injury?
No. I think it’s obvious he is playing through an injury and it’s taking a toll on his game.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Not true but OK. I've seen him keep pace with other players at times, when necessary. I've also seen him kind of floating.

Call it inaccurate in your opinion but no "disingenuous". 100% factual.
Lol….ok….he can keep up with Chara…you’re right. He loses pretty much every single agility or quick start sequence against an opposing forward today.

If you would like to start pointing out his explosive effectiveness in-game, I’ll be all ears.

Don’t expect you’ll have much to work with.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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He had an unbelievable 80% offensive zone start % in last year's playoffs. I think it's reasonable to assume they've been looking at how best to preserve and use him in the postseason at least while Lavi has been here.

The last 2 playoffs were not great for him but before that is a different story. We shall see.
I’m not one of those “worried” about him in the playoffs. Why worry? He is what he is. They’ll try to protect him as best they can, but he’ll probably be exposed.
 

g00n

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Lol….ok….he can keep up with Chara…you’re right. He loses pretty much every single agility or quick start sequence against an opposing forward today.

If you would like to start pointing out his explosive effectiveness in-game, I’ll be all ears.

Don’t expect you’ll have much to work with.

1st shift - Ok retrieiving the puck behind the net and leading the breakout, lazy pokecheck that led to a rush the other way, not much urgency in getting back, then floated until shift change.

2nd - Led the breakout and zone entry at exact same pace as everyone else, but his dump was turned over because both Schultz and oshie peeled off to the other side instead of going deep, NB had to turn quickly to keep up with the rush and was maybe outpaced by a half step by Armia who had a 3 stride head start on him before NB was able to turn his hips and go the other way. NB forks the puck loose on the boards to start the zone exit.

3rd - Wins d-zone faceoff. Eventually pressures puck and causes turnover to lead zone exit. Later disrupts pass which leads to Schultz getting the puck and exiting the zone.

4th - Had to wait for his man to come off to get into the play, but made a beeline for the scrum in front of VV and helped stop the scoring chance on a big rebound by tying up the player as Mantha iced it. Wins faceoff so Schultz can get it out of the zone. Joins Oshie on the forecheck. Plays perfect defensive position and steals the puck after MTL enter the zone, and makes a nearly 2-line outlet pass to Oshie on the break, which draws a penalty.

(I'm not doing the power plays, they don't show transition or regular gameplay)

5th - Loses d-zone FO but retrieves puck on dump and clears it. 2nd man down the ice for Caps even throws a little check. Seems late getting back on D but is really behind the play because he had his man tied along the boards in the o-zone.

6th - Almost connects with Oshie on a mini-rush, drifts to the front of the net as the puck plays around the perimeter. Right next to Mojo as the latter tips a feed wide. Gets back on D and whiffs a steal but then blocks a shot. Mostly plays positional defense near the center until needs to pressure the puck along the boards.

2nd period

7th - Wins d-zone FO and 2 clears the zone. Joins the rush the other way and keeps it alive with a great poke of the puck near the crease directly to Mojo. Schultz again tries the center/tip play with just 19 there at the doorstep but it's defended. Zone is cleared for icing. Wins O-zone FO to set up shot on goal. Puck frozen. Loses next FO and follows the play down the ice, in good position. MTL scores on a shot from the other side of the ice, not NB's man.

8th - Teams with Oshie on backcheck as they come on the ice, forcing a turnover and rush the other way. Bad pass by Oshie reverses play. NB leads the breakout and zone entry with speed, feeding Mojo who nearly connects with Osh for a tap-in on the other wing. As MTL tries to breakout NB circles back and pokechecks the puck directly on-net for a great chance and forces a freeze.

9th - F1 on the forecheck. Almost forces a turnover. Helps clear the crease during a scrum. Gets caught going the wrong way on a strange handoff pass by MTL but recovers and then gets into a scuffle to protect VV from Anderson. Ends up in the box. Feels shame. Gets free.

10th - Exits the box just in time to follow the puck going the other way, crazy section of penalties.

11th - After Ovie goal loses FO at center ice and gets back on defense, but weird sort out with feverbeaver prevents either of them from getting the puck. Plays good defense, pressures the puck, exits the zone after Oshie gains possession, dumps for Oshie. Good movement in the o-zone, was open for an easy goal if Mantha could've gotten it to him, then changed off.

12th - Anderson/Wilson funny stuff leads to PP.

3rd period

13th - Loses O-zone FO but first fwd back on D. Interfered with on the breakout, then had to take a wide path around Schultz who turned into him during the forecheck for some reason, which took him a step away from the spot he wanted to be, and could've created a turnover. Instead Schultz gets turnstiled on a rush up the wing. VV makes initial stop but rebound is put home on opposite side of NB who rushed to get back.

14th - Loses o-zone FO, MTL ice it. Oshie takes next FO for some reason and also loses, MTL again ice the puck. NB wins next FO and a scoring chance is created with him and Osh at the net. Wins another FO, more shots and o-zone play. Screens the goaltender on Orlov's goal.

15th - Backward staking on defense as shifts change. Wins d-zone FO. Oshie with bad clearance but NB regains the puck. Again has to get back and cover the D position as play goes back and forth. Shows good striding and stop/start to get to positions he wants to be in. Puck over the boards, shift change.

16th - PP

17th - F1 on fairly passive forecheck as already up 7-3 with 8min left. Covers the center of the ice on D as usual. Keeps up perfectly with chugging Osh-babe on breakout and zone entry. Checked from behind twice but still retains puck. Covers the point as 74 pinches. Gets off long snapper that's deflected, floats between D and center slot until double teamed along the boards for a turnover that goes nowhere.

18th - Loses NZ FO. Uneventful final ES shift playing D in the center of the ice before Caps get a PP.


I did not see a "washed" old man struggling to survive. NB actually had a pretty damn good under the radar game, as is his trademark.

I think a lot of people are getting caught up in a narrative about this, or else they see him behind a play and don't know what he was just doing before that. Or they don't realize he's playing positional defense instead of just chasing the puck all over the ice.
 

traparatus

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Oct 19, 2012
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1st shift - Ok retrieiving the puck behind the net and leading the breakout, lazy pokecheck that led to a rush the other way, not much urgency in getting back, then floated until shift change.

2nd - Led the breakout and zone entry at exact same pace as everyone else, but his dump was turned over because both Schultz and oshie peeled off to the other side instead of going deep, NB had to turn quickly to keep up with the rush and was maybe outpaced by a half step by Armia who had a 3 stride head start on him before NB was able to turn his hips and go the other way. NB forks the puck loose on the boards to start the zone exit.

3rd - Wins d-zone faceoff. Eventually pressures puck and causes turnover to lead zone exit. Later disrupts pass which leads to Schultz getting the puck and exiting the zone.

4th - Had to wait for his man to come off to get into the play, but made a beeline for the scrum in front of VV and helped stop the scoring chance on a big rebound by tying up the player as Mantha iced it. Wins faceoff so Schultz can get it out of the zone. Joins Oshie on the forecheck. Plays perfect defensive position and steals the puck after MTL enter the zone, and makes a nearly 2-line outlet pass to Oshie on the break, which draws a penalty.

(I'm not doing the power plays, they don't show transition or regular gameplay)

5th - Loses d-zone FO but retrieves puck on dump and clears it. 2nd man down the ice for Caps even throws a little check. Seems late getting back on D but is really behind the play because he had his man tied along the boards in the o-zone.

6th - Almost connects with Oshie on a mini-rush, drifts to the front of the net as the puck plays around the perimeter. Right next to Mojo as the latter tips a feed wide. Gets back on D and whiffs a steal but then blocks a shot. Mostly plays positional defense near the center until needs to pressure the puck along the boards.

2nd period

7th - Wins d-zone FO and 2 clears the zone. Joins the rush the other way and keeps it alive with a great poke of the puck near the crease directly to Mojo. Schultz again tries the center/tip play with just 19 there at the doorstep but it's defended. Zone is cleared for icing. Wins O-zone FO to set up shot on goal. Puck frozen. Loses next FO and follows the play down the ice, in good position. MTL scores on a shot from the other side of the ice, not NB's man.

8th - Teams with Oshie on backcheck as they come on the ice, forcing a turnover and rush the other way. Bad pass by Oshie reverses play. NB leads the breakout and zone entry with speed, feeding Mojo who nearly connects with Osh for a tap-in on the other wing. As MTL tries to breakout NB circles back and pokechecks the puck directly on-net for a great chance and forces a freeze.

9th - F1 on the forecheck. Almost forces a turnover. Helps clear the crease during a scrum. Gets caught going the wrong way on a strange handoff pass by MTL but recovers and then gets into a scuffle to protect VV from Anderson. Ends up in the box. Feels shame. Gets free.

10th - Exits the box just in time to follow the puck going the other way, crazy section of penalties.

11th - After Ovie goal loses FO at center ice and gets back on defense, but weird sort out with feverbeaver prevents either of them from getting the puck. Plays good defense, pressures the puck, exits the zone after Oshie gains possession, dumps for Oshie. Good movement in the o-zone, was open for an easy goal if Mantha could've gotten it to him, then changed off.

12th - Anderson/Wilson funny stuff leads to PP.

3rd period

13th - Loses O-zone FO but first fwd back on D. Interfered with on the breakout, then had to take a wide path around Schultz who turned into him during the forecheck for some reason, which took him a step away from the spot he wanted to be, and could've created a turnover. Instead Schultz gets turnstiled on a rush up the wing. VV makes initial stop but rebound is put home on opposite side of NB who rushed to get back.

14th - Loses o-zone FO, MTL ice it. Oshie takes next FO for some reason and also loses, MTL again ice the puck. NB wins next FO and a scoring chance is created with him and Osh at the net. Wins another FO, more shots and o-zone play. Screens the goaltender on Orlov's goal.

15th - Backward staking on defense as shifts change. Wins d-zone FO. Oshie with bad clearance but NB regains the puck. Again has to get back and cover the D position as play goes back and forth. Shows good striding and stop/start to get to positions he wants to be in. Puck over the boards, shift change.

16th - PP

17th - F1 on fairly passive forecheck as already up 7-3 with 8min left. Covers the center of the ice on D as usual. Keeps up perfectly with chugging Osh-babe on breakout and zone entry. Checked from behind twice but still retains puck. Covers the point as 74 pinches. Gets off long snapper that's deflected, floats between D and center slot until double teamed along the boards for a turnover that goes nowhere.

18th - Loses NZ FO. Uneventful final ES shift playing D in the center of the ice before Caps get a PP.


I did not see a "washed" old man struggling to survive. NB actually had a pretty damn good under the radar game, as is his trademark.

I think a lot of people are getting caught up in a narrative about this, or else they see him behind a play and don't know what he was just doing before that. Or they don't realize he's playing positional defense instead of just chasing the puck all over the ice.
Are you OK?
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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1st shift - Ok retrieiving the puck behind the net and leading the breakout, lazy pokecheck that led to a rush the other way, not much urgency in getting back, then floated until shift change.

2nd - Led the breakout and zone entry at exact same pace as everyone else, but his dump was turned over because both Schultz and oshie peeled off to the other side instead of going deep, NB had to turn quickly to keep up with the rush and was maybe outpaced by a half step by Armia who had a 3 stride head start on him before NB was able to turn his hips and go the other way. NB forks the puck loose on the boards to start the zone exit.

3rd - Wins d-zone faceoff. Eventually pressures puck and causes turnover to lead zone exit. Later disrupts pass which leads to Schultz getting the puck and exiting the zone.

4th - Had to wait for his man to come off to get into the play, but made a beeline for the scrum in front of VV and helped stop the scoring chance on a big rebound by tying up the player as Mantha iced it. Wins faceoff so Schultz can get it out of the zone. Joins Oshie on the forecheck. Plays perfect defensive position and steals the puck after MTL enter the zone, and makes a nearly 2-line outlet pass to Oshie on the break, which draws a penalty.

(I'm not doing the power plays, they don't show transition or regular gameplay)

5th - Loses d-zone FO but retrieves puck on dump and clears it. 2nd man down the ice for Caps even throws a little check. Seems late getting back on D but is really behind the play because he had his man tied along the boards in the o-zone.

6th - Almost connects with Oshie on a mini-rush, drifts to the front of the net as the puck plays around the perimeter. Right next to Mojo as the latter tips a feed wide. Gets back on D and whiffs a steal but then blocks a shot. Mostly plays positional defense near the center until needs to pressure the puck along the boards.

2nd period

7th - Wins d-zone FO and 2 clears the zone. Joins the rush the other way and keeps it alive with a great poke of the puck near the crease directly to Mojo. Schultz again tries the center/tip play with just 19 there at the doorstep but it's defended. Zone is cleared for icing. Wins O-zone FO to set up shot on goal. Puck frozen. Loses next FO and follows the play down the ice, in good position. MTL scores on a shot from the other side of the ice, not NB's man.

8th - Teams with Oshie on backcheck as they come on the ice, forcing a turnover and rush the other way. Bad pass by Oshie reverses play. NB leads the breakout and zone entry with speed, feeding Mojo who nearly connects with Osh for a tap-in on the other wing. As MTL tries to breakout NB circles back and pokechecks the puck directly on-net for a great chance and forces a freeze.

9th - F1 on the forecheck. Almost forces a turnover. Helps clear the crease during a scrum. Gets caught going the wrong way on a strange handoff pass by MTL but recovers and then gets into a scuffle to protect VV from Anderson. Ends up in the box. Feels shame. Gets free.

10th - Exits the box just in time to follow the puck going the other way, crazy section of penalties.

11th - After Ovie goal loses FO at center ice and gets back on defense, but weird sort out with feverbeaver prevents either of them from getting the puck. Plays good defense, pressures the puck, exits the zone after Oshie gains possession, dumps for Oshie. Good movement in the o-zone, was open for an easy goal if Mantha could've gotten it to him, then changed off.

12th - Anderson/Wilson funny stuff leads to PP.

3rd period

13th - Loses O-zone FO but first fwd back on D. Interfered with on the breakout, then had to take a wide path around Schultz who turned into him during the forecheck for some reason, which took him a step away from the spot he wanted to be, and could've created a turnover. Instead Schultz gets turnstiled on a rush up the wing. VV makes initial stop but rebound is put home on opposite side of NB who rushed to get back.

14th - Loses o-zone FO, MTL ice it. Oshie takes next FO for some reason and also loses, MTL again ice the puck. NB wins next FO and a scoring chance is created with him and Osh at the net. Wins another FO, more shots and o-zone play. Screens the goaltender on Orlov's goal.

15th - Backward staking on defense as shifts change. Wins d-zone FO. Oshie with bad clearance but NB regains the puck. Again has to get back and cover the D position as play goes back and forth. Shows good striding and stop/start to get to positions he wants to be in. Puck over the boards, shift change.

16th - PP

17th - F1 on fairly passive forecheck as already up 7-3 with 8min left. Covers the center of the ice on D as usual. Keeps up perfectly with chugging Osh-babe on breakout and zone entry. Checked from behind twice but still retains puck. Covers the point as 74 pinches. Gets off long snapper that's deflected, floats between D and center slot until double teamed along the boards for a turnover that goes nowhere.

18th - Loses NZ FO. Uneventful final ES shift playing D in the center of the ice before Caps get a PP.


I did not see a "washed" old man struggling to survive. NB actually had a pretty damn good under the radar game, as is his trademark.

I think a lot of people are getting caught up in a narrative about this, or else they see him behind a play and don't know what he was just doing before that. Or they don't realize he's playing positional defense instead of just chasing the puck all over the ice.
I appreciate your hard work. I personally never said he’s washed up.

I was also referring to plays with explosive physicality (quick starts, rushes, excellent defensive back checking, agile plays etc.) not standard plays with hockey smarts…he didn’t lose that. He’s struggling physically to keep up and it impacts his other play. He often can’t hold the puck as long as normal to make the plays offensively his mind would normally expect to make, because he’s easy to close down and take away space.

He just appears to be a 60pt guy if this is the best he’s got left physically.

So yeah, plenty to contribute, but he’s going to stick out poorly a lot as compared to his normal standard of play (and cap hit).
 
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g00n

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I appreciate your hard work. I personally never said he’s washed up.

I was also referring to plays with explosive physicality (quick starts, rushes, excellent defensive back checking, agile plays etc.) not standard plays with hockey smarts…he didn’t lose that. He’s struggling physically to keep up and it impacts his other play. He often can’t hold the puck as long as normal to make the plays offensively his mind would normally expect to make, because he’s easy to close down and take away space.

He just appears to be a 60pt guy if this is the best he’s got left physically.

So yeah, plenty to contribute, but he’s going to stick out poorly a lot as compared to his normal standard of play (and cap hit).


I didn't just watch his every move in that game (and others before it, tbh) just to look for good decisions. I was also looking for signs of what you're talking about and I didn't see anything close to the "done" analysis some here have been pushing.

He was able to keep up with the play. He was able to change directions, push off, go where he wanted to go, etc. I didn't see anything to suggest there were physical limitations preventing him from doing what he was trying to do.

He's not going to be the guy that goes flying into the boards and chases the puck at full speed, and I think that's what some are expecting. That's NEVER been his game.

Does he have the ability to dance and dangle around the opposition like the old days? I suspect not. I don't see him trying and failing so we have to assume he's playing within his current limits. He's changed his game to be a different kind of playmaker.


NB is closer to Kozloaf now than Ovechkin or Kuzy. He's got the hockey sense to make it work, imo.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I didn't just watch his every move in that game (and others before it, tbh) just to look for good decisions. I was also looking for signs of what you're talking about and I didn't see anything close to the "done" analysis some here have been pushing.

He was able to keep up with the play. He was able to change directions, push off, go where he wanted to go, etc. I didn't see anything to suggest there were physical limitations preventing him from doing what he was trying to do.

He's not going to be the guy that goes flying into the boards and chases the puck at full speed, and I think that's what some are expecting. That's NEVER been his game.

Does he have the ability to dance and dangle around the opposition like the old days? I suspect not. I don't see him trying and failing so we have to assume he's playing within his current limits. He's changed his game to be a different kind of playmaker.


NB is closer to Kozloaf now than Ovechkin or Kuzy. He's got the hockey sense to make it work, imo.
I’ve watched his entire career. I know what his standard is mobility-wise and this isn’t it.

I‘m not expecting something that was never there before. lets not try to make up that angle….

I‘m not bashing the guy, just calling it like I see it. I’d say he’s about 75% of his norm if I were to guess. Just enough that if you’re watching closely, there are moments in games where it’s painfully apparent.

Hopefully, (if it even matters) they rest him before the playoffs a little and he plays great.
 

g00n

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I’ve watched his entire career. I know what his standard is mobility-wise and this isn’t it.

I‘m not expecting something that was never there before. lets not try to make up that angle….

I‘m not bashing the guy, just calling it like I see it. I’d say he’s about 75% of his norm if I were to guess. Just enough that if you’re watching closely, there are moments in games where it’s painfully apparent.

Hopefully, (if it even matters) they rest him before the playoffs a little and he plays great.

Yes, he's clearly not the same player he was years ago but if he was some rando prospect doing what he's doing people would be singing his praises. And as I noted in another thread, his cap hit doesn't mean much if you cost-average all the Caps centers vs the rest of the league.

So again, people are putting WAY too much concern into NB at a time when the team is kicking a lot of ass.

IMO the biggest issue is keeping him upright and making sure he doesn't carry any knocks into the playoffs. After that you take it as it comes.
 

DWGie26

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I’m not sure this is GDT material but this is where the conversation is around NB right now.

Last year he was in great shape and it showed. He is clearly hampered a bit this season. That is why i am hoping that whatever is ailing him (hip likely) that he can get it fixed in offseason so he can play out his contract. For now, he is going to have to fight through it and hopefully we clinch today with Isles loss and then we can think about both resting him and getting McMike some playing time before the playoffs because we are going to need both assuming we go more than one round. But even at 75% he is a better playoff player than McMike.

I also think it will be interesting when Snively comes back. Then you put him on Backstroms wing because he needs speed with him. And MoJo out of the lineup. I don’t hate MoJo as much as others here but Snivelys speed and ability to score will help.
 

StrikingDistance

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I'm not worried about Nicky. Our 3rd D pairing has been trash lately. Like, non-recyclable 1985 7-11 coffee cup trash. Sure we have a goalie issue, but the amount of grade-A chances we've been giving up has been above average lately.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I'm not worried about Nicky. Our 3rd D pairing has been trash lately. Like, non-recyclable 1985 7-11 coffee cup trash. Sure we have a goalie issue, but the amount of grade-A chances we've been giving up has been above average lately.
It’s all just chatter….the ultimate undoing will be the goaltending…
 

twabby

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I don’t know how fans aren’t expected to be concerned about the forward who has the worst goal, shot, and chance differential by a mile on the team and a coach who hasn’t really shown an inclination to reduce this player’s role and hasn’t shown an inclination to play the player who leads the team in shot and chance differential.

It’s not surprising to me to see Mantha all of a sudden be more active once he was separated from Backstrom. But is he going to have to play alongside him during the postseason? How is that going to affect his transition game, for instance?

I don’t see a compelling reason to believe Backstrom is suddenly going to get better in the postseason. After all he was one of their worst players last postseason and nothing has really changed between now and then regarding his injury and his underlying play.
 
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g00n

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I don’t know how fans aren’t expected to be concerned about the forward who has the worst goal, shot, and chance differential by a mile on the team and a coach who hasn’t really shown an inclination to reduce this player’s role and hasn’t shown an inclination to play the player who leads the team in shot and chance differential.

It’s not surprising to me to see Mantha all of a sudden be more active once he was separated from Backstrom. But is he going to have to play alongside him during the postseason? How is that going to affect his transition game, for instance?

I don’t see a compelling reason to believe Backstrom is suddenly going to get better in the postseason. After all he was one of their worst players last postseason and nothing has really changed between now and then regarding his injury and his underlying play.

You've been on an anti-Backstrom crusade for quite some time so I don't think you're ever going to see a compelling reason to believe anything, especially when all you care about are fancy stats about expected goals instead of real in-game performance.
 

twabby

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You've been on an anti-Backstrom crusade for quite some time so I don't think you're ever going to see a compelling reason to believe anything, especially when all you care about are fancy stats about expected goals instead of real in-game performance.

His real in-game performance at 5v5 is the worst on the team.

Choose your metric: whether it be “real” performance metrics like points or goal differential, or “fancy stats” like expected goals, GAR, or player isolates. He’s either the worst or near the bottom at 5v5.
 

g00n

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His real in-game performance at 5v5 is the worst on the team.

Choose your metric: whether it be “real” performance metrics like points or goal differential, or “fancy stats” like expected goals, GAR, or player isolates. He’s either the worst or near the bottom at 5v5.

Oh you still think performance and stats are the same thing. I see.
 

mad4comp

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You've been on an anti-Backstrom crusade for quite some time so I don't think you're ever going to see a compelling reason to believe anything, especially when all you care about are fancy stats about expected goals instead of real in-game performance.

Doesn't mean he isn't right. Backstrom is holding this team back... it's pretty evident to anyone who watches the games. If the goal is to win a SC.. he shouldn't be playing. Neither should MoJo. Both need to be replaced by McM and AJF respectively.
 

g00n

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Doesn't mean he isn't right. Backstrom is holding this team back... it's pretty evident to anyone who watches the games. If the goal is to win a SC.. he shouldn't be playing. Neither should MoJo. Both need to be replaced by McM and AJF respectively.

I literally just dissected his performance for the entire game because people keep saying this without backing it up. Where was he holding the team back in an 8-4 win?

What's CMM's ES points/60 vs Backstrom's, if we're talking about stats?
 
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