Jeffrey93
Registered User
- Nov 7, 2007
- 4,335
- 46
Columbus & Pittsburgh are in better shape with their TV ratings to handle this than a lot of clubs are.
Future Relocation Possibilities
- Thread starter Valhuen
- Start date
Columbus & Pittsburgh are in better shape with their TV ratings to handle this than a lot of clubs are.
PSLs give you the right to buy season tickets for that seat. Rob Ford talked about seat licenses in an article I'm too lazy to look up, when discussing the possibility of an NFL team coming to Toronto.
I'm sure naming rights would help finance the stadium, though I would think it would be nowhere near the amount proposed in Los Angeles.
It's the best football market in the world. I'm sure one more team wouldn't be a problem. Is there a territorial rights issue? Does the NFL even have this?
remember Katrina, blue.....
Alamodome was used for the Saints until their dome was rebuilt..... and w/ Cowboys Stadium and Reliant Stadium (which just was home to the Final Four)
Darlotto99
Registered User
the following teams to be relocated: Carolina, Nashville, Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix, Tampa Bay , NY Islanders.
New NHL city's :Baltimore, Portland, Seattle, Houston, Milwaukie, Winnipeg, Quebec
New Divsion set up
East
Philadelphia Flyers
New York Rangers
Boston Bruins
New Jersey Devils
Pittsburgh Penguins
Washington Capitals
Baltimore Colts (NY Islanders)
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Black Hawks
Toronto Maple Leafs
Montreal Canadians
Quebec Nordics (Nashville)
Ottawa Senators
Buffalo Sabres
Columbus Blue Jackets
West
Colorado Avalanche
St Louis Blues
Dallas Stars
Houston Chargers (Tampa Bay)
Anaheim Ducks
San Joes Sharks
Los Angelus Kings
Minnesota Wild
Milwaukee Thrashers (Atlanta)
Vancouver Canucks
Seattle Hurricanes (Carolina)
Portland Panthers (Florida)
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Winnipeg Jets (Phoenix)
Detroit, Chicago and Columbus would move to the East to balance out the confrences.
New NHL city's :Baltimore, Portland, Seattle, Houston, Milwaukie, Winnipeg, Quebec
New Divsion set up
East
Philadelphia Flyers
New York Rangers
Boston Bruins
New Jersey Devils
Pittsburgh Penguins
Washington Capitals
Baltimore Colts (NY Islanders)
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Black Hawks
Toronto Maple Leafs
Montreal Canadians
Quebec Nordics (Nashville)
Ottawa Senators
Buffalo Sabres
Columbus Blue Jackets
West
Colorado Avalanche
St Louis Blues
Dallas Stars
Houston Chargers (Tampa Bay)
Anaheim Ducks
San Joes Sharks
Los Angelus Kings
Minnesota Wild
Milwaukee Thrashers (Atlanta)
Vancouver Canucks
Seattle Hurricanes (Carolina)
Portland Panthers (Florida)
Calgary Flames
Edmonton Oilers
Winnipeg Jets (Phoenix)
Detroit, Chicago and Columbus would move to the East to balance out the confrences.
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Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Yeah...but Cleveland isn't.
Remember what it was like when Pittsburgh played Columbus in Columbus this year? Yeah, nothing but Penguins fans. Throw in having teams within 150 miles in four different directions and...yeah...Cleveland isn't viable.
Especially considering we're talking about a city smaller than Pittsburgh with a weaker economy that already has 3 major sports teams in the market. Where is the money coming from to support that 4th? As a Pittsburgher I'll be the first to say we couldn't support an NBA team. I don't know what about Cleveland having 300k+ less people, higher unemployment rate, larger population decrease %, or closer alignment to a bevy of teams makes them capable of being, by far, the smallest city with teams in all 4 leagues. Pittsburgh also has the advantage of a larger territorial realm, having much of the southeastern Ohio, West Virginia, western PA, a large portion of central OH, and, in hockey, northeastern PA. Cleveland would be relegated to...well...Cleveland. The Red Wings dominate northwestern Ohio, the Penguins southeastern Ohio, the Sabres have a slight presence in northeastern Ohio, and the Blue Jackets have the rest. There's just too much competition there.
The smallest city with teams in all 4 leagues is Denver, which sports over 2.5 million in the metro region and has the bonus of being the only American sports market in the Rockies outside of the Utah Jazz (I live over 1,000 miles on the road from Denver and still get Altitude as a local sports channel). To say nothing of the nearly 500k more people in the metro area.
The smallest city with teams in 3/4 of the leagues? Cleveland.
Cleveland is not an option.
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Hutch Gilbert has looked for an NHL team in the past and if he got one he would sell the monsters.
This is an open and shut case.
What region does the NHL not have any franchise or business in?
The US Pacific Northwest.
That climate and history and demographics are MUCH more suited to hockey than the sunbelt.
Portland/Seattle are progressive/affluent cities with less of a transient base and both have a hockey history of some kind.
Irregardless, it just makes no sense to have a region in the US not covered with any business.
Portland or Seattle, pick one and you have a hockey team in every US region.
Simple.
What region does the NHL not have any franchise or business in?
The US Pacific Northwest.
That climate and history and demographics are MUCH more suited to hockey than the sunbelt.
Portland/Seattle are progressive/affluent cities with less of a transient base and both have a hockey history of some kind.
Irregardless, it just makes no sense to have a region in the US not covered with any business.
Portland or Seattle, pick one and you have a hockey team in every US region.
Simple.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
A team in Portland makes a ton of sense...unfortunately Paul Allen basically owns that town and hasn't shown the slightest bit of interest in buying a NHL team since he lost out on buying the Penguins out of bankruptcy court in 1999. Seattle would need to build an arena and they didn't show much of any support to do so for the Sonics (though they got utterly dicked over by Bennett).
The American Northwest is definitely an untapped market, and one with the potential for a lot of growth. The WHL's US markets have done very well, I hold little doubt that either city could support a team (I'd argue Portland before Seattle, mind you). I mean...as a western Montanan I get the Avalanche as the 'home' team on cable. I live more than 1,000 miles away from the Pepsi Center. Not that Seattle or Portland are right next door, but they're still closer and the cultural similarities are far closer to those two than Colorado...by a long shot...).
Any team going to the Northwest would be the de facto team in the entire region. At this point the only hockey fans around here are transplants like me.
The American Northwest is definitely an untapped market, and one with the potential for a lot of growth. The WHL's US markets have done very well, I hold little doubt that either city could support a team (I'd argue Portland before Seattle, mind you). I mean...as a western Montanan I get the Avalanche as the 'home' team on cable. I live more than 1,000 miles away from the Pepsi Center. Not that Seattle or Portland are right next door, but they're still closer and the cultural similarities are far closer to those two than Colorado...by a long shot...).
Any team going to the Northwest would be the de facto team in the entire region. At this point the only hockey fans around here are transplants like me.
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Kane One
Moderator
There's no way Wang will allow the Islanders to relocate. The farthest from Nassau County I see them moving to is Brooklyn. I also don't see any of those teams moving to Baltimore. If any team moves there, they will relocate again in 10 years tops. Why will any team want to relocate to Baltimore which is near Washington who has Ovechkin on their team?
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Baltimore has a lousy economy, a limited population base, and is next door to the Capitals...it's not a potential market. Especially considering how abjectly hockey has failed there at the minor league level.
Likewise moving a team from Carolina is nothing more than typical 'they're southern so they must have lousy fan support' logic. Same goes to Tampa. Carolina & Tampa have done very well in carving niches for themselves. To a lesser extent, Nashville is the least of the league's problems right now.
The Islanders may well move in the near future...but it's not going to be out of that New York metropolitan area.
Likewise moving a team from Carolina is nothing more than typical 'they're southern so they must have lousy fan support' logic. Same goes to Tampa. Carolina & Tampa have done very well in carving niches for themselves. To a lesser extent, Nashville is the least of the league's problems right now.
The Islanders may well move in the near future...but it's not going to be out of that New York metropolitan area.
Buck Aki Berg
Done with this place
Care to elaborate on any of this, or did you just pick hockey teams out of a hat and then throw some darts at a map?
The Islanders have a rich TV contract. They are one of the least "gate-driven" teams, so their low attendance might not be killing them.
- Chicago and Milwaukee would be an identical issue to Toronto and Hamilton.
- Washington and Baltimore would be an identical issue to Toronto and Hamilton. And Washington is nowhere near as established as Toronto, so they may be more vulnerable
- Paul Allen in Portland is very uninterested in having an NHL team. Since he controls the arena, that puts the kibosh to Portland.
- Seattle isn't Glendale. They don't throw taxpayers' money at billionaires. Seattle lost the Supersonics NBA franchise because taxpayers wouldn't pay for a new arena. The NHL would face the same problem.
Only if the dartboard is centered near Atlanta. It's the "Sunbelt Extraction Concept", as the entire US southeast is removed along with the Coyotes and the Islanders.
This is why I made the list. Baltimore, Seattle and Milwaukee are out because they don't have a decent arena. Portland and Houston are only possible if their NBA owners put a team there. Winnipeg is ready, and Quebec will be once they have their arena in place by 2015, just in time for the Islanders lease with Nassau County to expire.
I don't think its entirely the same issue. Those Wisconsiners just don't identify with the Blackhawks at all.
Yes, much more vulnerable, and much like Toronto/Hamilton, although I've seen some that say Baltimore is "dying". Not really, it is starting to become more of a finance city.
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So let's see...
First off, you'd like to switch out the two Florida teams in part in exchange for having two Texas teams.
I'm not sure that a team in Houston would receive any more support there than the Panthers do in the Miami - Sunrise area. But I suppose if you're considering the whole package (two Texas teams) to have more potential than the two Florida teams, then I suppose who knows. It could still come down to the same scenario that has befallen the Florida teams, in that virtually never have the two teams been strongly competitive at the same time, so no real rivalry has developed.
Secondly, you'd like to trade out Carolina and Nashville, and in turn have teams in Milwaukee and Baltimore...
... Still two fairly young franchises, in the grand scheme of the NHL, both of which have shown signs of decent or growing support... in exchange for Milwaukee which is almost certainly at its major league franchise saturation limit, and Baltimore, which is no more a proven hockey town than Raleigh, and which already has Washington serving the general area.Thirdly, you'd like to take away the Islanders, which have a famous NHL history, and with which the only true problem is getting a new arena. Every team in the League eventually needs a new arena, and if that need comes at a time when the locals don't wish to spend for an arena, then almost any team in the League could be threaten with relocation as a result. As someone else said, the Islanders may well eventually be moved, but likely or hopefully not out of the NY metropolitan area.
Now that leaves Phoenix and Atlanta, in exchange for two of either: Portland, Seattle, Winnipeg, or Quebec City.... Well, if the Coyotes end up back in Winnipeg then I suppose it's only fair. As for the Thrashers, it would be a 'no turning back' decision to relocate yet a second team out of Atlanta, and for that alone I wouldn't take it as a decision that the NHL should make without first making great effort to try to keep the team there.
Certainly, Portland, Seattle, and Quebec City would all be good options for the NHL, but I'm not sure that there are three other current NHL teams that should be relocated.
I do understand what seems to be one of your objectives... that there be more western teams, so that Detroit and Columbus can be put in the East... but there are other ways of resolving Conference alignment issues. Nevertheless, let's hope that Expansion (or relocation if necessary) can find ways to get more "western" teams into the League.
The Count
Registered User
Baltimore's upsides:
1- Baltimore's economy is actually doing better than average right now helped through the port plus piggy-backing on the growth of Greater Washington.
2- Baltimore gets great cable TV ratings for the Capitals and will be hosting the Capitals in a preseason game this September for the first time in 12 years.
3- Baltimore already has city rivalries with Washington, Pittsburgh, and New York thanks to other professional sports.
Baltimore's massive downsides:
1- First Mariner Arena (Baltimore Arena/Civic Center) is a complete dump and was too small even when it was built in 1962. While there have been rumblings of new arenas since the 1980's it takes heaven and earth (plus the Colts to book-out) to build anything in Baltimore thanks to its corrupt local political climate.
2- Too close to Washington (1 hr), Philadelphia (2 hrs), Newark (3 hrs), and NY (3.5 hrs), and Pittsburgh (3.5 hrs) where the region is already overly saturated with teams.
I'd like to see the AHL return to Baltimore but I can't see the NHL working there.
I don't see why Milwaukee - Chicago would be any more of an issue in the NHL than it is with any of the other major league sports. And I also wouldn't compare it with Toronto - Hamilton. The distance between Milwaukee and Chicago is more than twice that between Toronto and Hamilton, and Milwaukee and Chicago would represent different states. A more similar comparison would be with Toronto and Buffalo.
Proximity to Chicago isn't the problem. The problem is that there are already two major leagues with teams in Milwaukee, with a third just up the road in Green Bay.
As for your other points, ... No argument.
What I think is going to happen is we are going to see 3 relocations & 2 expansion teams within the next 7 years .
Coyotes - Winnipeg
Thrashers - Hamilton
Panthers - Seattle
Expansion - Kansas City
Expansion - Quebec City
Coyotes - Winnipeg
Thrashers - Hamilton
Panthers - Seattle
Expansion - Kansas City
Expansion - Quebec City
There are a lot hawk fans in Milwaukee, you would be suprised. There are even bulls fans there.
If you ask me I belive Hamilton is the most deservering of NHL. franchise considering all the bullying & ilegal tatics by both the leafs & sabers over the years plus Hamilton is the most valuble hockey market without an NHL. team & yes even more valuble than Winnipeg & Quebec City combined & even know it looks like Winnipeg might get there team before Hamilton I stand by my statement .
Buck Aki Berg
Done with this place
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
That's mostly in Kenosha County, which has Chicago fans for pretty much all sports since they get Chicago sports channels (WGN, Comcast Chicago etc.) There's a lot of Cubs, White Sox, Bears and Bulls fans down there.
Really though, most Wisconsinites don't root for the Blackhawks even though they're by far the closest team just because many Wisconsinites can't stand Chicago.
The Milwaukee metro area has grown to about 1.75 million and that doesn't include Kenosha (which would undoubtedly gain some fans, not a ton but some) and the metro area doesn't include Madison, Kenosha or a couple counties with a total population of 200,000 that is an hour away.
