Fun question. If you were to rebuild, who do you keep? who do you trade?

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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You're putting the cart before the horse. Before selecting players, you need to select a system / identity.

:laugh:

So you're telling me there are teams out there who would have no use for a big bodied, quick scoring winger, a defenseman that can skate and carry the puck and a goalie?

I'm pretty sure those 4 pieces would fit in any system on the other 29 teams in the league without much of a problem.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
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:laugh:

So you're telling me there are teams out there who would have no use for a big bodied, quick scoring winger, a defenseman that can skate and carry the puck and a goalie?

I'm pretty sure those 4 pieces would fit in any system on the other 29 teams in the league without much of a problem.

No. I'm saying that your list should start blank. Pick a strategy, then pick the pieces.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
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You're putting the cart before the horse. Before selecting players, you need to select a system / identity.

This concept has been lost on this organization for some time. They are half and half now and they play like they are confused. I guess going bipolar extremes doesn't work. Took the players out of their comfort zone I reckon.

Having this split personality team is also bad because its hard to transition players to different lines incase of injury.

If they were uniform line templates you can slide players up and down more easily. What I mean is. Find me a line Clarkson fits...you can't really do it. I do know however if Kessel goes down his inferior replacement is Raymond. The replacement for Bozak is Bolland, the replacement for Kadri is nobody really so if Kadri is out they have to adjust the play style completely. Holland fits inbetween Bozak and Bolland which is good to have. JVR - Kules Is the guy, at any rate...

The team is built to many different ways and the coaching isn't matching that dynamic so they are confused, an play confused scatter brain hockey.
 

Penalty Kill Icing*

Guest
Keep: Rielly, JvR, Bernier, Bolland.

GTFO: Everyone else.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
24,948
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This concept has been lost on this organization for some time. They are half and half now and they play like they are confused. I guess going bipolar extremes doesn't work. Took the players out of their comfort zone I reckon.

Having this split personality team is also bad because its hard to transition players to different lines incase of injury.

If they were uniform line templates you can slide players up and down more easily. What I mean is. Find me a line Clarkson fits...you can't really do it. I do know however if Kessel goes down his inferior replacement is Raymond. The replacement for Bozak is Bolland, the replacement for Kadri is nobody really so if Kadri is out they have to adjust the play style completely. Holland fits inbetween Bozak and Bolland which is good to have. JVR - Kules Is the guy, at any rate...

The team is built to many different ways and the coaching isn't matching that dynamic so they are confused, an play confused scatter brain hockey.

Completely agree.... although it's probably not as bad as you suggest right now.

The Leafs have 3 big wingers -- JvR, Kulemin, Clarkson, and the latter 2 should be able to move up into the roles of their superiors if/when injuries / poor play occurs.

They have 3 scoring / speedy wingers -- Kessel, Lupul, and Raymond. Again, these guys should be able to step up.

Our problem is at centre... where you've got an horribly inconsistent 1-way player like Kadri who just isn't good enough to be the 2nd line centre when we're healthy, or step up into the top line role, especially considering that top line role is basically to let JvR/Kessel do their thing.

On D, i don't see it as much of a problem of depth alignment, versus the fact that our depth just isn't good enough.
 

LyGuy

Registered User
Aug 21, 2013
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6
For a real rebuild, keep only JVR, Rielly and Bernier. Would love to keep Phaneuf as well but by the time the rebuild is over and ready to compete he'd be past his prime.
 

Bluejaysfan*

Guest
Keep: Rielly, JvR, Bernier, Bolland.

GTFO: Everyone else.

So you would rather keep Bolland that a legit #1 in phaneuf or a legit #1 in Kessel. You can still tank or do horrible with Kessel, the Leafs were 5th worst with him during his ppg season. Unless you get a future #1 center prospect like Galchenyuk, RNH or a top pairing defense prospect like Jones or Trouba, there is no reason to trade Kessel.
 

The Podium

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
22,958
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Toronto
JVR - XXXX - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri -XXXX

Phaneuf - XXXX
Rielly - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - XXXX

Bernier

No where near a rebuild, they are too close.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,502
17,521
Id sell everyone who is either a one way player OR making too much money for their role on the team. Unfortunately we are stuck with Clarkson, but we can sell the rest:

Out:
Raymond Fraser Franson Kulemin Gunnarsson Lupul
 

rdawg1234

Registered User
Jul 2, 2012
4,586
0
JVR - XXXX - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri -XXXX

Phaneuf - XXXX
Rielly - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - XXXX

Bernier

No where near a rebuild, they are too close.

Agree with this 100%.

we need two d-men(bottom pairing can come from a prospect)

a better two-way winger and better two-way centre.

THEN if this team isn't working, you look at a major overhaul, people want to quit before we get to the end here.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,502
17,521
Id sell everyone who is either a one way player OR making too much money for their role on the team. Unfortunately we are stuck with Clarkson, but we can sell the rest:

Out:
Raymond Fraser Franson Kulemin Gunnarsson Lupul

Kadri(2.9) Bozak(4.2) Kessel(8)
JVR(4.25) Bolland(4) Clarkson(5.25)
Komarov(1.5) Holland(2.075) Ashton(0.65)
D'Amigo(0.65) McClemment(1.5) Orr(0.925)
McLaren(0.7)

Gardiner(2.256) ________
Gleason (4) Phaneuf(7)
Rielly(1.744) Girardi(5)
Ranger(1)

Bernier(2.9)
Reimer(4)

Team Payroll(64.5)
Salary Cap(71)
Cap Space(6.5)

forwards 36.6
defence 21
goalie 6.9
 

Jer416

Registered User
Oct 8, 2013
936
0
Ontario
Kadri(2.9) Bozak(4.2) Kessel(8)
JVR(4.25) Bolland(4) Clarkson(5.25)
Komarov(1.5) Holland(2.075) Ashton(0.65)
D'Amigo(0.65) McClemment(1.5) Orr(0.925)
McLaren(0.7)

Gardiner(2.256) ________
Gleason (4) Phaneuf(7)
Rielly(1.744) Girardi(5)
Ranger(1)

Bernier(2.9)
Reimer(4)

Team Payroll(64.5)
Salary Cap(71)
Cap Space(6.5)

forwards 36.6
defence 21
goalie 6.9

Komarov would be great for 1-1.5m, but nothing more. Not sure if Girardi would sign here. But main concern is Reimer for 4m. Really don't think he'll get more than Bernier without being named the starter :/
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,502
17,521
Think of it this way, if Bernier were up for contract this season he would be getting more than 4M per.
 

Jer416

Registered User
Oct 8, 2013
936
0
Ontario
Think of it this way, if Bernier were up for contract this season he would be getting more than 4M per.

He was up for contract last season and got 2.9...both were/are gonna be RFA still lol.

Edit: I'm not saying Reimer doesn't deserve 4m, its just...probably wont be with the Leafs unless Bernier leaves.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,502
17,521
Bernier has done a lot this season to prove he is worth more than 2.9 moving forward. He got 2.9 because he wasn't proven.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
74,144
39,930
Keep Kessel, JVR, Rielly, Phanuef, Bernier.
 

Kelly

Registered User
Nov 12, 2012
14,901
7,485
Keep Kessel, JVR, Rielly, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Kadri, and Bernier.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
24,948
1,437
Personally, I wouldn't tear it all down again. We've done that enough times in the last 10 years. We've picked our strategy, we need to stick to it.

So...
JvR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-XXXXX-Clarkson
XXXXX-Bolland-Kulemin
Holland-McClement-Orr
D'Amigo, McLaren

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-XXXXX
Rielly-Franson

Bernier-Reimer
 

DaveT83*

Guest
To be legitimate contenders we need an entire 1st line.
And an entire top pairing defence.

XX XX XX
JVR Kadri Lupul
Clarkson Holland Kulemin
Komorov McClement D'Amigo

XX XX
Reilly Gunnerson
Franson Gardner

Bernier
XX
 

hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
6,396
1,082
Keep Kessel, JVR, Rielly, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Kadri, and Bernier.

kessel will always disapoint in work ethic ...finishing his checks etc ,,,,,,how could brian burke ever disrespect bobby ryan and not say the same about kessel ......unreal ...blow it up right if we miss the playoffs .....right now i cant see many teams we are better than
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,559
10,519
JVR Staal Kessel
JVR Staal Kessel
JVR Bolland Kessel
D'Amigo Bolland Ashton

Looks funny, the point is to illustrate an ideal template.

PF PF SN
PF PF SN
PF PF SN
PF PF PF

3 lines the same but different is the the combination I like. You want big bodies up the middle with skill, you want a sniper and another PF to cycle with your C, the SN job here is to find his spot, wings and c to establish zone pressure, cycle and battle.
 

Penalty Kill Icing*

Guest
So you would rather keep Bolland that a legit #1 in phaneuf or a legit #1 in Kessel. You can still tank or do horrible with Kessel, the Leafs were 5th worst with him during his ppg season. Unless you get a future #1 center prospect like Galchenyuk, RNH or a top pairing defense prospect like Jones or Trouba, there is no reason to trade Kessel.

I don't want my core players to be swiss cheese soft. Sorry. I like Kessel but I don't see him or Phaneuf as being core of a cup winning team.

They are very good players that can be complementary, but not cup winning core material.
 

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